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03-27-2017, 06:41 AM   #1
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I have returned to the fold. (now, about lenses)

So i decided to treat myself to a new camera, i had the k-7 for a bunch of years, upgraded to the fuji x-e1, lost it in airport transit, got a Fuji X100T and well.. now i upgraded to the 645Z. Its been one of my longest standing dreams to go Medium Format, and the lent itself a week ago.

So now i am sitting here with the following setup.

645Z in mint conditions (5xx exposures when i got it)
45mm 2.8 FA (not the aw)
200mm 4 FA (not the aw)
150mm 3.5 M
Original 645 Angle ViewFinder (got it for free in the deal)
Original x2 A tele extender and the original pentax A extension tubes

I mainly do portrait shots and really like to play around with marco, so the tubes and the 200mm is pretty amazing.

But i was wondering about buying a dedicated macro lens and what would be the best idea. There are currently the 90mm and the 120mm macro lenses. I wouldn't mind getting the Manual focus version but the getting a used FA lens from ebay shouldn't be to much of a expense either.
The 120 FA is f4 and i would get 1:1 as far as i understand, but i would lack the extra light i would get from the 90. With the 120, i would also get closer to the 150mm which is really nice for portraits.


So, would you rather recommend me getting the 120 or the 90, i know it ends up subjective in the end but does the last 30mm matter that much when it comes to portraits or would the 120mm work great as both portrait and macro (two in one)


Sorry for the bad composition of the question, i am not very good with written structure.

03-27-2017, 06:54 AM   #2
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I don't know anything about these lenses. But looking over your lens lid the 90 seems to fill a gap. Typically with macro the length of the lens affects working distance and perspective. What shots do you plan to get with this combo; Bugs, flowers, other?
03-27-2017, 08:33 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I don't know anything about these lenses. But looking over your lens lid the 90 seems to fill a gap. Typically with macro the length of the lens affects working distance and perspective. What shots do you plan to get with this combo; Bugs, flowers, other?
If you have a preference for the longer 120, you're in luck because it's also quite a bit cheaper, especially if you go for the manual focus version.

One other possibility in this range is adapting a Pentax 67 105/2.4 (maybe the fastest Pentax medium format lens?), though this isn't a macro lens but I imagine could be combined with your tubes. That would of course require finding the 645 => 67 adapter.
03-27-2017, 09:44 AM   #4
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Congrats on the spiffy new camera!

QuoteOriginally posted by synonyms Quote
There are currently the 90mm and the 120mm macro lenses. I wouldn't mind getting the Manual focus version but the getting a used FA lens from ebay shouldn't be to much of a expense either.
Yeah, to do macro you don't really need AF, because you are around the minimum focus distance anyway. For macro shots people usually focus by just moving the camera closer or further by fractions of centimeters. I don't know how big the difference of 30mm is on MF at that range, but with macro working distance is important. Generally it is recommended to start with long focal length macro lenses, because they have a more comfortable working distance, so you don't scare the bugs, endanger yourself and your gear, don't cast a shadow on the subject with the camera itself.

Either way, nice to see you on the forum, and feel free to post some photos

03-27-2017, 10:55 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I don't know anything about these lenses. But looking over your lens lid the 90 seems to fill a gap. Typically with macro the length of the lens affects working distance and perspective. What shots do you plan to get with this combo; Bugs, flowers, other?
I really like the idear of shooting bugs, but flowers should not come in the way either. The 90mm is somewhat lighter then the 120 (500gram i think) believe it or not, i actually enjoy this beast as a walk around camera. One of my biggest issues right now is finding a bag that is actually great for the size of the camera but also allows me to go a bit "off road" I like the sling bags with easy access, but they are usually very compressed in the area where the camera goes. The protruding eye piece makes it harder to fit.


QuoteOriginally posted by AndrewG NY Quote
If you have a preference for the longer 120, you're in luck because it's also quite a bit cheaper, especially if you go for the manual focus version.

One other possibility in this range is adapting a Pentax 67 105/2.4 (maybe the fastest Pentax medium format lens?), though this isn't a macro lens but I imagine could be combined with your tubes. That would of course require finding the 645 => 67 adapter.
I would preferer to get the autofocus, just so it could be a mid tear all around lens for walking about. The price between the manual and AF is not such a big issue, im more afraid of the lacking light on the F4 The idea of the 67 lens might be good, but for now, I would prefer to stick to 645 lenses, the conversion from different formats is already giving me a bit of a headache.


QuoteOriginally posted by Na Horuk Quote
Congrats on the spiffy new camera!


Yeah, to do macro you don't really need AF, because you are around the minimum focus distance anyway. For macro shots people usually focus by just moving the camera closer or further by fractions of centimeters. I don't know how big the difference of 30mm is on MF at that range, but with macro working distance is important. Generally it is recommended to start with long focal length macro lenses, because they have a more comfortable working distance, so you don't scare the bugs, endanger yourself and your gear, don't cast a shadow on the subject with the camera itself.

Either way, nice to see you on the forum, and feel free to post some photos
I almost had my face eaten by a rather large monkey 5 years ago(attached, because why not), I presume I wouldn't be getting into the same issues with most bugs, but i do agree with your point about working distance.
Photos will be arriving in a week or two from now, I still haven't taken it out for a spin. I am currently taking it slow and I have ordered 3 extra backup batteries, just in case. As soon as I find a bag which will take the body with a lens, and a backup lens, I will drag it out and see what happens. I have 2 trips abroad this month, not to the most existing place in the world, but it should give me some opportunity to get some contrasting shots.
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Last edited by synonyms; 03-27-2017 at 11:26 AM.
03-27-2017, 12:48 PM - 1 Like   #6
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if you mean the DFA90 macro, it is not a 1:1 macro if that is important to you. The A120 or FA120 would be better for bugs and small objects.
03-27-2017, 02:14 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by synonyms Quote
I really like the idea of shooting bugs, but flowers should not come in the way either. The 90mm is somewhat lighter then the 120 (500gram i think) believe it or not, i actually enjoy this beast as a walk around camera.

I would preferer to get the autofocus, just so it could be a mid tear all around lens for walking about. The price between the manual and AF is not such a big issue, im more afraid of the lacking light on the F4 The idea of the 67 lens might be good, but for now, I would prefer to stick to 645 lenses, the conversion from different formats is already giving me a bit of a headache.
First the 6x7 lenses will give the same crop factor on the 645Z as the 645 lenses. The sensor, not the lens, matters. They will likely be larger for the same focal length and aperture however.

The current lenses you have cover wide normal (45 f/2.8) to medium telephoto (150 f/3.5, 200 f/4)
2x TC (non-AF, A series) You are missing a normal lens and a wide angle and extreme telephoto. You can put the 2x on the 45 and get an f/5.6 90mm but based on your comments I don't think that will appeal to you. This is why I suggested using the 90mm - you can always add the extension tubes and 2x to bump the macro wow up. The 90 will also be a short telephoto (as would a 120) but closer to normal than the 120 would be.

All of this is based on this article: The Crop Factor Unmasked - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com so take my advice with a grain of salt. I have not been there I have not done this.
03-27-2017, 09:55 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
if you mean the DFA90 macro, it is not a 1:1 macro if that is important to you. The A120 or FA120 would be better for bugs and small objects.
From the lens review section, i understood that that 90 is 0.5x and the 120 is 1:1 .. is this correct or have i overlooked something ?
if the 120 is better for bugs and such, where would the 90mm be doing better ?


QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
First the 6x7 lenses will give the same crop factor on the 645Z as the 645 lenses. The sensor, not the lens, matters. They will likely be larger for the same focal length and aperture however.

The current lenses you have cover wide normal (45 f/2.8) to medium telephoto (150 f/3.5, 200 f/4)
2x TC (non-AF, A series) You are missing a normal lens and a wide angle and extreme telephoto. You can put the 2x on the 45 and get an f/5.6 90mm but based on your comments I don't think that will appeal to you. This is why I suggested using the 90mm - you can always add the extension tubes and 2x to bump the macro wow up. The 90 will also be a short telephoto (as would a 120) but closer to normal than the 120 would be.

All of this is based on this article: The Crop Factor Unmasked - Articles and Tips | PentaxForums.com so take my advice with a grain of salt. I have not been there I have not done this.
Thanks! I will check out the link and give it some thoughts, for some reason, mf for tele still kinda scares me, im not sure its even justified, but i think its a lot harder then the whole macro deal. Of course with focus peaking and zooming in on the lcd etc, its doable.

03-28-2017, 02:58 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by synonyms Quote
From the lens review section, i understood that that 90 is 0.5x and the 120 is 1:1 .. is this correct or have i overlooked something ?
if the 120 is better for bugs and such, where would the 90mm be doing better ?



...

I have both the 90 and the 120. The 120 is definitely better for magnification and minimum focus distance.
The 90 would require extension tubes to get closer to the subject.
03-28-2017, 04:30 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikeSF Quote
I have both the 90 and the 120. The 120 is definitely better for magnification and minimum focus distance.
The 90 would require extension tubes to get closer to the subject.
what would you consider being the pros of the 90mm besides the 2.8?
03-28-2017, 04:42 AM   #11
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Optically the 90mm is one of the best lenses in the system - even better than the 120mm. I don't do macro much, but as a general purpose 90mm it is superlative.
03-28-2017, 07:52 AM   #12
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I own both the 120 and the 90mm. If you're thinking of doing mostly macro, then get the 120, which has its bonuses (greater magnification, etc) and is four times cheaper than the 90mm. The 120 is also very good for portraiture.

Pros of the 90mm: it's the best optics for the 645z bar none. Great micro-constrast, well corrected, sharp, offers shake reduction, is weather-resistant, 2.8, etc.
03-28-2017, 08:27 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BrunoL Quote
I own both the 120 and the 90mm. If you're thinking of doing mostly macro, then get the 120, which has its bonuses (greater magnification, etc) and is four times cheaper than the 90mm. The 120 is also very good for portraiture.

Pros of the 90mm: it's the best optics for the 645z bar none. Great micro-constrast, well corrected, sharp, offers shake reduction, is weather-resistant, 2.8, etc.
Treat me like a child. I know nothing about the lenses at all.
Is the 150 a good portrait option? It is pretty close to the 120 in length.
With tubes and the 90 how far off is the 90 from the 120 in terms of possible macro work?

I'm just curious and interested.
03-28-2017, 11:42 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Treat me like a child. I know nothing about the lenses at all.
Is the 150 a good portrait option? It is pretty close to the 120 in length.
With tubes and the 90 how far off is the 90 from the 120 in terms of possible macro work?

I'm just curious and interested.
FA 150 is a great head/shoulders portrait lens, but needs to be stopped down at least to f/4, IMO. Soft and mushy wide open - looks best at f/5.6 I'd say. Colors good. good contrast.

A120 is super sharp but the bokeh is not nearly as nice as the FA150 nor the DFA90. For macro, THIS is your lens, no question there.

DFA90 - best optics in the Pentax catalog, bar none. Wonderful portrait lens, 3/4 length and full length, also environmental portraits, etc. Superb bokeh.
For macro, ehhhh, you can't get close enough to the subject for 1:1 magnification. It is 1:2 I think. Adding auto extension tubes should do the trick, but I personally would lean toward the A120 for macro.

I forgot a couple more I've had:

67 SMC 105 f/2.4(adapted to 645) - great for portrait, landscape, general use. Fastest lens available (besides exotics). Nice bokeh at shallow DOF/close subject distance. Decent sharpness, especially stopped down fo landscape.

67 90mm LS(leaf shutter) - I found my copy to be soft all around - never warmed up to it. The LS is handy in that it permits shutters up to 1/500th when shooting with flash.

...now finish your juice box and go take your nap.

Last edited by mikeSF; 03-28-2017 at 11:55 AM.
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