[camyum]

It appears i often see official retailers taking down the prices for whole 645Z kits, so I guess something new will be coming at least in 2018.

Now my question is:
Does anybody already know what to expect from the 645Z successor?
I hope no UFO-like LEDs...
Since i gave up on the K-1 for many issues(at least it didnt sound like a reasonable upgrade from a K-3II), and I am waiting for a more reasonable product;
I wanted to know if it may be a good idea to wait on the 645Zs successor.

Will it be a significant upgrade?
Back to the original size of the 645 format at the same or even a lower res?
(What would also be cool for me, but may not be in conjunction with what the photo-media industry demands.)
Or will it stay at the same sensor size and up the resolution?
Or will it just be faster in terms of "AF+buffer speed/size" and sport the display mechanism of the K-1?
Will it be the Indie-Film Makers hot dream of a Jack-of-All-Trades?
Or can somebody say for sure that there will be no upgrade neither in 2018 nor in 2019?

Any clues would be welcome, because I am considering other partys also at the moment, but not at least because I invested a chunk of gold in Pentax-dedicated flash system, I maybe want to stay.

---------- Post added 05-23-17 at 07:50 AM ----------

645 "XL" ?

[Na Horuk]

For years Pentax has been using Sony sensors. So look at what sensor Sony has produced in that size - that is likely the sensor in the next 645 camera. I don't think Sony is making 'full frame' 645 sensors.

Or will it stay at the same sensor size and up the resolution?

So this seems very likely. 100MP, maybe even 150MP seems possible, the way technology is going.
Other than that, I think the next 645 will follow the same path as 645D, 645Z. Strong machine, rugged, WR, lots of controls and advanced features. Kind of different from what the other manufacturers were doing with MF so far

[lytrytyr]

Does anybody already know what to expect from the 645Z successor?

Given the distinct lack of clarity from Ricoh,
it's not certain if there will even be any successors in the Q and 645 systems.

With the exception of some activity on the Theta front,
Ricoh's limited resources in non-industrial photography
seem to be completely absorbed with FF K mount for the time being.

Of course, I would love to be proved wrong here!

[photoptimist]

A full-645 is quite likely unless PhaseOne has a contractual lock on the supply of Sony's 100 MP full-645 sensor. A full-645 sensor lets Pentax beat Fuji and Hasselblad's new MILCs because those cameras are physically incompatible with full-frame 645.

Sony also has a 100 MP crop-645 on it's roadmap but it's not slated for release until 2018.

Pentax has explicitly said they don't consider video a high priority. Moreover, video with larger sensors is especially hard to do. Disinterest and technical challenges seem to make video-MF unlikely.

[2351HD]

They need to release some new high res zooms first.

[camyum]

Pentax has explicitly said they don't consider video a high priority. Moreover, video with larger sensors is especially hard to do. Disinterest and technical challenges seem to make video-MF unlikely.

i would love if you would be right with the full 645 sensor...
and i am with you when you say big video improvements are quite unlikely on Mid-Format..
I imagine its very difficult to draw a video from such a big resolution sensor...
though it really would nuke video camera industry... according to some video people:

That Mid-Format from Pentax that offers very good video output, would be the non-plus ultra for indie film makers because the dimensions of the actual 645Z (44 mm × 33 mm) come very close to the dimensions of an "Arri Alexa 65" which has a 54.12 mm x 25.59 mm active imaging area.
on the pentax side there is the problem with the recording resolution... whilst the ARRI can do 6560x3100,
Pentax cant even handle simple 4K, much less offer nice framerates, compression-rates or compression-formats.

Assuming a full 645 from Pentax would offer even more sensor size and resolution that could beat the sh.. out of ARRI...
only given the fact they work hard on video functions.

Videographers would rip such a mid-format dslr out of the dead hands of every photographic-gear dealer.

not that i would need it, i just say its possible that it will sell like hotcake... that is in fact so, because the rumor has it that an ARRI ALEXA would cost a Bugatti Veyron if IT would be for SALE... lol (you can only rent it... ) smart people at arri...
I guess renting it for an indie film project would cost the patron of arts the value of a Hasselblad Starter set.

[KiddiKristjans]

Huge sensor for video is not a priority for I'd dare say, more than 90% of videographers. Huge sensors mean incredibly shallow DOF with wide apertures, which in turns means even smaller apertures needed to get proper DOF for most video purposes, which means, LOTS and LOTS of more light for the scene to compensate for the smaller apertures. All of the most used professional video cameras use Super35 (APS-C) sized sensors, which is the same framesize as a vertically aligned 35mm film. It happens to be the sweet spot for sensor size vs. light requirements for a given aperture. So no, I don't think better video is or should be high on a new medium format to-do list.

To get back on topic, I honestly don't know how the 645Z could be bettered - I've tried the Hasselblad XCD and it felt like using a digital compact from the year 2001, and I mean that in a bad way - slow, laggy, uninspiring in operation. I haven't tried the Fuji GFX but I hear it's a lot nicer to operate than the Hasselblad. What I'd like from Pentax are updated lenses. I'd like a wider prime lens such as the 23mm Fuji is making. I'd like the old lenses updated with silent focusing motors and weather resistance. Otherwise, the 645Z still blows my mind every time I pick it up.

[camyum]

If you do not know what could be improved, why should Video not be on the list?...(It is just my oppinion that it should be on the list... I never said this should be first in line.)

And if it would be true that videographers dont care about big-format, I ask myself why people go crazy and spend tons of money for renting ARRI 65 gear when there are no benefits to it.
Its not that really everybody would want to use it for every video,(or it could ever go so far and replace an Arri 65..no thats a whole other league),
but it would indeed have a big fan community amongst movie people... of that I am sure.
Especially since big format high-res options in the video world cost loads more than a 645Z for example.
Nature videographers or newspeople will not buy it for their work, one can be sure of that.

And not that i want to nag on you, but to stay true to the facts i have to note that you may got something wrong about DoF calculations.
Because it is a fact that the actual DoF is not smaller on bigger sensors, but bigger... I dont know why most people get that wrong.
For example:
55mm focal length on Canon 5DIII
you focus on a point 4meters away from you, you set F:5,6
it will give you a total depth of 1,86m 0,72 front and 1,14 back

55mm focal length on 645D
you focus on a point 4meters away from you, you set F:5,6
it will give you a total depth of 3,42m 1,08 front and 2,34 back

it only appears to be more shallow.
and even if you would take a focal length that gives you same framing as 55mm gives you on ff, it would only be slightly be a bit shallower (i guess about 50cm or so)
DoF is always measured on reality side not picture side..




be it so or not, a very shallow depth of field is always welcome for entertainment-movies and such. (just look at that shallow depth of field in the VIKINGS TV-series...)
That shallow DoF, it gives you the possibility to go from showing everything to concentrate on a small detail or a facial expression.



nonetheless, somehow you are totally right. There should be other things first in line for a 645 update...
But i have the same question that came to your mind: "WHAT?"

[SylvainB]

A full-645 is quite likely unless PhaseOne has a contractual lock on the supply of Sony's 100 MP full-645 sensor. A full-645 sensor lets Pentax beat Fuji and Hasselblad's new MILCs because those cameras are physically incompatible with full-frame 645.

Hasselblad does use this sensor on their side, so it is not completely locked. And I think that Pentax signed an agreement some time ago to get this sensor and see if they could make something about it (and clearly said later that it was not a commercial agreement to develop and sale a full 645 format soon, just a case study).
So technically Pentax could go that way. Do they which so ? I sure don't know.


PS : the 100MP full 645 format sensor delivers 4K video with Hasselblad, just in case people would be worried about video.

[skierd]

My guess is 645Z prices are going down because there are two new camera's at around the same price point from Fuji and Hasselblad to compete with more so than any potential forthcoming 100MP monster. Anything that Pentax puts out with that 100MP sensor is likely to be a fraction of the $20-30,000 asked for the current crop of 50mp backs that have the same sensor as the $7000 (last time I checked) 645Z, let alone the absurd asking prices for the Phase IQ 100mp backs. Even if it's a $15k body only, that's still more affordable than the digital backs for the others BEFORE you buy a camera.

What about the K-1 puts you off? Or what about the 645Z do you think would have to be substantially upgraded to make it a worthy upgrade?

I think Pentax has said and proven with their actions time and time again: Pentax doesn't care about video. Period. Full Stop. They offer it because they have to, but there are many other options out there if video is a priority or even a major want.

[672]

just...make...more...lenses!!!

[2351HD]

just...make...more...lenses!!!

Yes, if they had more compelling new lenses there wouldn't be such a threat from the other offerings.

Couple that with the mixed messages that Pentax has sent by releasing a mixture of DFA and DA lenses, we just don't have an indication of where they are going.