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07-17-2017, 03:30 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Femto1969 Quote
So I'm not sure what the advantage of shopping with him would be, unless he offers a guarantee on the items. Maybe if I buy lots of gear he can offer a price break. He quoted me between $350 - $400 for the 105 in a great condition - no broken filter threads, fungus, haze, yellowing, scratches, or balsam separation. I ended up buying a 105 SMC Takumar on eBay in this condition for $334 which included the lens hood. The hood made it especially worth it, since I will be working outside and want one anyway. Decent ones run about $50. I shopped around for a few weeks, and didn't want to wait any longer on the lens. I have a few shoots coming up and the prices on this item seem to be increasing. Maybe I could have saved $30 by waiting longer, but that's life. Now I need to track down a good deal on a waist level finder, and my system should be pretty much complete (unless I end up wanting better landscape lenses.)

It's a fair question; his arrangement is a bit more expensive than when I used his services a few years ago. He can also add taxi, train andn air expenses, so it certainly can add up. I think the bulk of his business is from wealthy US and Canadian collectors rather than active photographers. Still better though than battling language difficulties and the very noticeable stubborn front of Japanese second-hand dealers. At the end of the day I think the $334 with a hood (these are always ridiculously priced when available separately) is a darned good buy, even if it is a Takumar.

07-18-2017, 07:03 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Silent Street Quote
It's a fair question; his arrangement is a bit more expensive than when I used his services a few years ago. He can also add taxi, train andn air expenses, so it certainly can add up. I think the bulk of his business is from wealthy US and Canadian collectors rather than active photographers. Still better though than battling language difficulties and the very noticeable stubborn front of Japanese second-hand dealers. At the end of the day I think the $334 with a hood (these are always ridiculously priced when available separately) is a darned good buy, even if it is a Takumar.
Wonderful. I just nabbed a waist finder for $80 including shipping, so I'm on a roll. I think the last piece is the chimney finder. Then if I want better landscape lenses, some day I will sell my 55 and 75 and buy a 45 and 55-100 zoom. Maybe add the 300 as well. Then, I promise, I will be done!
07-18-2017, 07:34 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Femto1969 Quote
some day I will sell my 55 and 75

Ha, if you're really on a roll, you'll turn up the semi-mythical Kirk L-bracket... Otherwise, I could see swapping the 75 Tak for the 75/2.8 AL, but the late model 55/4 seems to be legendary in its own right. (I'd also be very interested in Desertscape's take on the two 67 zooms...great optical performance, but not quite as robust as the primes?)


At any rate, there's a 300ED at Roberts Camera (usedphotopro.com) or, if you're like me and are approaching the old marital penalty box, they also had the 1.4 TC which Steve lauded when paired with the new version of the 200/4.
07-18-2017, 08:25 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by CreationBear Quote
Ha, if you're really on a roll, you'll turn up the semi-mythical Kirk L-bracket... Otherwise, I could see swapping the 75 Tak for the 75/2.8 AL, but the late model 55/4 seems to be legendary in its own right. (I'd also be very interested in Desertscape's take on the two 67 zooms...great optical performance, but not quite as robust as the primes?)


At any rate, there's a 300ED at Roberts Camera (usedphotopro.com) or, if you're like me and are approaching the old marital penalty box, they also had the 1.4 TC which Steve lauded when paired with the new version of the 200/4.
I think I got the idea for the zooms from Desertscape, since they go up to f/32 rather than the primes which usually stop at f/22. The 300mm goes up to f/45 (WOW, that's almost a large format lens stoppage!).

I'm not exactly sure what the appropriate use is of the TC plus the 200mm. I guess to save kit space. Otherwise I would rather shoot with the 300mm, and its an afforable lens itself. It must be the advantage of not having to carry two P67 long primes, which are the size of a football each and weigh as much as a cinder block!

07-18-2017, 08:48 AM - 1 Like   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Femto1969 Quote
It must be the advantage of not having to carry two P67 long primes,

As much as I love the 200/4 it's the one that has had me scratching my head on how to field--I've not had trouble getting my P67 and three lens kit into an Ortlieb bag (which then goes into my big Dana backpack) but it's just a little too long to fit with the lens mounted. As for the M* 300, the ones I've seen for sale have been a bit more expensive than the zooms (pushing the $1K barrier at times)...it might be that the 645Z guys are influencing the market a bit. (Mike Oria, for instance, puts up some great shots with precisely that combo.)
07-18-2017, 09:00 AM - 1 Like   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Femto1969 Quote
Maybe add the 300 as well. Then, I promise, I will be done!
If you really want a 300mm 6x7 lens, skip the older version and go for the newer ED one that has a tripod mount.

Phil.
07-18-2017, 09:19 AM - 1 Like   #37
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Wow. You are not kidding around about the 300ED/Teleconverer/P645.

Lens: 67 M*300 f/4 | Flickr

I don't have $700 - $1000 to spend on this combination, however. If I ever go professional I will absolutely go after this combination (but I'll probably stick with the P67).

It seems to me that if you're committed to BW work the original 300mm might do you fine and save you a wad of cash.

I see that a lot of professionals use the Pentax 645D or D. What are the advantages of shooting with that system? More frames, more modern body, electromechanical features, etc?

I've never shot a P645, but I have shot the Mamiya and I preferred the P67 over that form factor. Higher resolution photos and shutter speed up to 1/1000th of a second, which is important for my outdoor photography style. I like the SLR form factor too. Combined with the high shutter speed the P67 has great hand holdability.

Why do I see so many professionals using P67 lenses on 645 bodies, besides the fact that they are all fantastic products? Is there some major edge I'm missing?

07-18-2017, 04:02 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Femto1969 Quote
I've never shot a P645, but I have shot the Mamiya and I preferred the P67 over that form factor. Higher resolution photos and shutter speed up to 1/1000th of a second, which is important for my outdoor photography style. I like the SLR form factor too. Combined with the high shutter speed the P67 has great hand holdability.
Handholding the P67 bugs me. As a matter of technique, I never shoot my P67 handheld, always tripod. Which is why the images are as sharp as they possibly can be on the lightbox with no concern whatsoever for appearance of print size. Horses for courses, I do see some young 'uns hand-hauling 67s street-style. They have less concern for sharpness than I do.

I have never shot a 645 and never will. Reminds me too much of a parcel postage stamp sized format. If I want big and bigger, the SV45Ti 4x5 comes out to play.
07-18-2017, 05:25 PM   #39
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That's some "second option," Silent Street. A question: how often do you find yourself wishing you had "movements" when out and about with your SLR? I can imagine a bit of Scheimpflug would be a great way to side-step the diffraction issues, and having the equivalent of T/S would be a great help in a forest setting.
07-18-2017, 05:52 PM   #40
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Street, I've taken some handheld candid portraits that have made me a believer! ISO 400 and a wide aperture make shutter speeds high enough for very sharp images. You should take yours off the legs and swing it around every once in awhile!
07-31-2017, 12:44 PM   #41
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There a lot of variables that go into shooting a Pentax 6x7 handhold. The wider the lens the easier it is on camera shake, focus and more DOF. Obviously for handhold street style shooting a medium format camera composition, mood and subject are way more important attributes than ultimate sharpness of the image. If you are trying to squeeze the last 2% of image quality out a medium format, perhaps just go to the next level of sheet film.

Here is a handhold example with a crop I've posted before using a Pentax 67 with the 55/4 and 400TMY. Sometimes the sharpness is good enough for this medium:




[

Last edited by tuco; 07-31-2017 at 12:50 PM.
07-31-2017, 05:24 PM   #42
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Peculiarly, I found emails in my spam folder relating to these posts...

QuoteOriginally posted by Femto1969 Quote
Street, I've taken some handheld candid portraits that have made me a believer! ISO 400 and a wide aperture make shutter speeds high enough for very sharp images. You should take yours off the legs and swing it around every once in awhile!
Street is very different to the precision required (or desired) of landscape photography. I would like to see even the most experienced 67 user handheld a P67 at 40 seconds within the gloom of a rainforest while a battalion of leeches makes a beeline for his armpits!


QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
There a lot of variables that go into shooting a Pentax 6x7 handhold. The wider the lens the easier it is on camera shake, focus and more DOF. Obviously for handhold street style shooting a medium format camera composition, mood and subject are way more important attributes than ultimate sharpness of the image. If you are trying to squeeze the last 2% of image quality out a medium format, perhaps just go to the next level of sheet film.

As for LF and the 2% (it is closer to 1%), I also have an Ebony SV45Ti and really, the resolution gain over a crisp, perfectly focused 67 image is at best modest, and pitifully, too often over-stated with zealous, vehement enthusiasm by exponents, more for the "craftiness" of the [4x5] format than refined technical proficiency and format comparison (remembering also that in the 1980s medium format was actually "large format"!).

* * * *

QuoteOriginally posted by Femto1969 Quote
Street, I've taken some handheld candid portraits that have made me a believer! ISO 400 and a wide aperture make shutter speeds high enough for very sharp images. You should take yours off the legs and swing it around every once in awhile!
Yes, ISO400+ (even 3200) handheld is easily achievable with street-style, but it is not with mine (enclosed landscape) where Tvs are drawn out way beyond 30 seconds (often a minute...) at ISO50 (and recently Adox CMSII at ISO20!!), and prints are very large, not 6x4 postcards! Street snapping is relaxing and spontaneous, to be sure. Landscape can be fraught, tedious and an exercise in mental gymnastics that can leave folks drained and struggling to go back and do it again. I don't like being bitten by leeches, but it happens every time. I also get a numb face, runny nose, watery eyes and asthma attacks!!

* * * *

QuoteOriginally posted by CreationBear Quote
That's some "second option," Silent Street. A question: how often do you find yourself wishing you had "movements" when out and about with your SLR? I can imagine a bit of Scheimpflug would be a great way to side-step the diffraction issues, and having the equivalent of T/S would be a great help in a forest setting.
Short answer: not very often.
The Ebony SV45TI comes out when I want to "bend the rules" a bit; it is very, very difficult to focus in quite low ambient light conditions, and the application of movements is largely superfluous for straight-on, uncomplicated photography (if anything, rise/fall is more useful than focus manipulation). I can also resort to 35mm using Canon's TS-E 24 or 45mm lenses (which I have been using since 1995, mounted to a veteran EOS 1N first used in 1994!): much easier and quicker than LF and follow-focus confirmation is helpful for "bloody mad old coots" like me with dodgy eyes! Some of my very best images were made with the EOS 1N and TS-E lenses, a long, long time before MF and even longer before LF — I will never part company with the oldest and most reliable and memorable components of my photography system!
08-02-2017, 06:56 AM   #43
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My rule for hand holding a 6x7 is 400ISO film and shutter speeds of 1/125 or higher for lenses from 35mm to 165mm. (1/250 or higher for the 200mm and 300mm)

Shooting 400IOS film in daylight usually means you have an issues with getting the shutter under 1/1000, so this is pretty easy to do with lots of DOF.

I always use a tripod for slower film, macro shooting or lenses 400mm and over. Note the old 300/4 is worse on a tripod due to no tripod mount and vibrarions, so I get better results hand holding it.

Phil.
08-02-2017, 02:52 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by CreationBear Quote
(I'd also be very interested in Desertscape's take on the two 67 zooms...great optical performance, but not quite as robust as the primes?)
The 55-100 zoom can hold its own against the 55mm latest and 75 Takumar. All 3 are similar in performance. That f/32 on the zoom is very important in landscape work. The 90-180 zoom is not in the same league as the 55-100. Although not a soft lens, it just cannot compete with the better primes. Its f/45 stop seems to do better with macro work than landscapes. Just too much diffraction. Yes, the zooms are more delicate than the primes.

---------- Post added 08-02-2017 at 03:14 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Femto1969 Quote
I'm not exactly sure what the appropriate use is of the TC plus the 200mm.
Shooters use the 200 Pentax with the 1.4X to save money. The combination has similar performance to the 300 EDIF. Since the 200 is not a telephoto design, putting a negative group (TC) behind it doesn't seem to degrade the image. The combination does not seem to be as susceptible as the 300 Takumar is to shutter shake.
08-03-2017, 08:01 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by gofour3 Quote
My rule for hand holding a 6x7 is 400ISO film and shutter speeds of 1/125 or higher for lenses from 35mm to 165mm. (1/250 or higher for the 200mm and 300mm)

Shooting 400IOS film in daylight usually means you have an issues with getting the shutter under 1/1000, so this is pretty easy to do with lots of DOF.

Phil.
Yeah, I petty much don't go below 1/125th on my Pentax 6x7 either for handhold for up to the 105mm. But I can go lower sometimes. I use the folding hood in lieu of the Prism. After pre focusing, I can let the camera hang from my neck resting against my body, look down to see the composition and use a cable release to fire the shutter much like I use to do with my TLR Rolleicord. But you still can get some motion blur sometimes especially with the 105mm.

Edit: That picture I posted, though 400 film, was shot at EI 100 and with the yellow filter it was like shooting ISO 50 film. So you can do 100 film on a sunny day handhold for many situations.

Last edited by tuco; 08-03-2017 at 08:35 AM.
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