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08-08-2018, 03:45 AM   #16
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As it only occurs with .pef and then only in On1 product (assume .pef ok in all other raw editors?) then it really has to be their issue in the conversion process of 645z pef. Highly unlikely IMO to be graphic card related.

While Adobe came up with DNG it is not their proprietary format - all information relating to the format is published and in the public domain, therefore they do not control it. They also own TIFF format

Does the pink sky in the editor print as pink?

Does the pink sky stay pink if you convert image to TIFF or JPEG?


Last edited by TonyW; 08-08-2018 at 03:52 AM.
08-08-2018, 05:06 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by TonyW Quote
As it only occurs with .pef and then only in On1 product (assume .pef ok in all other raw editors?) then it really has to be their issue in the conversion process of 645z pef. Highly unlikely IMO to be graphic card related.

While Adobe came up with DNG it is not their proprietary format - all information relating to the format is published and in the public domain, therefore they do not control it. They also own TIFF format

Does the pink sky in the editor print as pink?

Does the pink sky stay pink if you convert image to TIFF or JPEG?
I don't think I used the word "proprietary." From the text at Digital Negative - Wikipedia one could argue that Adobe's control is weak, but not completely absent.

The introduction at this Wiki link explains Adobe's position sufficiently that I have to conclude that the reason dng is not fully supported by Darktable is likely different than I speculated; see text farther down the Wiki page for what might be reasons, including lack of use by many major camera manufacturers.

I haven't yet tested dng under Darktable, so it is also worth noting that my comment is dependent on Linux information I found on the Internet. The Darktable manual, such as it is, does not address the file format issues.
08-10-2018, 06:07 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by tar4heel2 Quote
I don't use PNG because according to Wikipedia "PNG was designed for transferring images on the Internet, not for professional-quality print graphics, and therefore does not support non-RGB color spaces such as CMYK."

and

"PNG was created as an improved, non-patented replacement for Graphics Interchange Format (GIF), and is the most widely used lossless image compression format on the Internet."

Given there IS compression-with the term 'lossless' akin to saying 'fat-free butter'-there would be degradation ini the image. Any file format that features compression is throwing away digital information. The term "lossless" derives from an algorithm that deletes digital information and then replaces it with what it thinks was there previously. Hardly something I would want to be happening to my RAW files. PNG is not a true RAW file format.


I was speaking of .dng not .png. There is a difference and i agree with you 100%. I havent had any issues using the other raw file the camera shoots in and it seems more compatible with many softwares in comparison to the .pef raw file the camera shoots in.


08-11-2018, 05:52 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by abruzzi Quote
PNG is not DNG:

Digital Negative - Wikipedia

"Digital Negative (DNG) is a patented, open lossless raw image format written by Adobe used for digital photography."

EDIT: Also, when lossless is used to describe compression, it means that the original data can be rebuilt with bit for bit accuracy. Compression that can't do that is called "lossy". Things like ZIP, GZIP, and BZIP are lossless, but they are also not optimized for images, and are commonly used for miscellaneous computer files.
GAH! You are absolutely correct. A bonehead post on my part. I need to pay more attention to things. DNG vs PNG... DOH!!

---------- Post added 08-11-18 at 05:54 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Fcsnt54 Quote
I was speaking of .dng not .png. There is a difference and i agree with you 100%. I havent had any issues using the other raw file the camera shoots in and it seems more compatible with many softwares in comparison to the .pef raw file the camera shoots in.
As I said, I sloppily replied without catching my mistake... You are correct!!

HOWEVER, having said that, if given the choice, why would I choose to have my raw image "rebuilt"? The whole point of raw is to capture the most digital image information possible, bringing to bear the least amount of manipulation to render that data into the scene we want. The analogy; why would I cook lasagna, take it apart by separating the layers, and then put it back together just before serving? It's a needless process to change my raw image into a format that just is not catching on. Given Adobe's past, I can see a day when they would think nothing of suddenly, without warning, stop supporting the format, or deciding that all DNG files can only be adjusted with Adobe product. I don't trust Adobe any further than I can throw the company out the window.


Last edited by tar4heel2; 08-11-2018 at 06:09 AM. Reason: Add comment
08-11-2018, 09:06 AM   #20
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QuoteQuote:
.....
HOWEVER, having said that, if given the choice, why would I choose to have my raw image "rebuilt"? The whole point of raw is to capture the most digital image information possible, bringing to bear the least amount of manipulation to render that data into the scene we want. The analogy; why would I cook lasagna, take it apart by separating the layers, and then put it back together just before serving? It's a needless process to change my raw image into a format that just is not catching on. Given Adobe's past, I can see a day when they would think nothing of suddenly, without warning, stop supporting the format, or deciding that all DNG files can only be adjusted with Adobe product. I don't trust Adobe any further than I can throw the company out the window.
DNG does not rebuild raw data, it is merely a container to hold the raw data exactly as your camera puts out.

That container as I understand it is TIFF/EP format like many manufacturers proprietary raw formats.

Essentially a DNG file from your Pentcanikus is exactly the same data as PEF, CR2, NEF etc but in a format that other software can use (if your camer particular PEF format not supported) there are a few.

It also allows manufacturers to include specific information for their particular brand of editor, which may or may not be understood by others. DNG is native format for other camera marques including Leica and Hasselblad.
08-11-2018, 09:36 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by tar4heel2 Quote
GAH! You are absolutely correct. A bonehead post on my part. I need to pay more attention to things. DNG vs PNG... DOH!!

---------- Post added 08-11-18 at 05:54 AM ----------



As I said, I sloppily replied without catching my mistake... You are correct!!

HOWEVER, having said that, if given the choice, why would I choose to have my raw image "rebuilt"? The whole point of raw is to capture the most digital image information possible, bringing to bear the least amount of manipulation to render that data into the scene we want. The analogy; why would I cook lasagna, take it apart by separating the layers, and then put it back together just before serving? It's a needless process to change my raw image into a format that just is not catching on. Given Adobe's past, I can see a day when they would think nothing of suddenly, without warning, stop supporting the format, or deciding that all DNG files can only be adjusted with Adobe product. I don't trust Adobe any further than I can throw the company out the window.
The future is filled with many unknowns, the same can be said about PEF, REF, ORF, etc. One day software companies could stop supporting those raw files also it seems like there are more issues with the .pef then the .dng at the moment(case in point the ON1 software having a difficult time constructing an image from it when in the development stage). To my knowledge .dng is just as native to pentax cameras as the file format .pef. it just so happens that pentax gives us a choice, and are not a raw rebuild saying it writes to the raw container in camera. I don't use adobe products, to be honest I do not like what they have done with the CC(reason why I switched). with that being said, I could go for lasagna right now saying that sounds delicious(as long as it isn't reconstructed... haha). I get where you are coming from, we each have our own styles, and our own process flows with the images. happy shooting
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