Problems using On1 Photo RAW with 645Z files

tar4heel2 · 04-20-2018, 03:11 PM

I LOVE, I mean LUV my 645Z and use DxO PhotoLab to process my RAW files, which gives excellent results.

I've been using On1 Photo RAW recently, and have a problem with the results: There is a pink color in some of the brighter portions of my image, but it's not in every shot and only with 645Z .PEF files.

Anyone else seen this problem?

I have had hints it could be a display card problem on my MacBook Pro mid 2014. But I only see this phenomenon with On1. They keep asking for more information when I submitted a trouble ticket. Tired of dealing with them, slow as molasses to respond.

See the screen shot:

**Tas** · 04-21-2018, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by tar4heel2

I LOVE, I mean LUV my 645Z and use DxO PhotoLab to process my RAW files, which gives excellent results.

I've been using On1 Photo RAW recently, and have a problem with the results: There is a pink color in some of the brighter portions of my image, but it's not in every shot and only with 645Z .PEF files.

Anyone else seen this problem?

I have had hints it could be a display card problem on my MacBook Pro mid 2014. But I only see this phenomenon with On1. They keep asking for more information when I submitted a trouble ticket. Tired of dealing with them, slow as molasses to respond.

See the screen shot:

I can't say I've ever seen that before, it's like there's a luminance mask with a colour palette. Could it be the highlight indicator for over exposed parts of a scene? This is normally red so I'm guessing not.

I don't get this problem but then I shoot a K-1 and use DNG. It might be worth trying some images shot as DNG to see if you're getting the same problem.

My system is a little older than yours and Win 7, but if you like I can try shooting some PEF files with my K-1 and see if I get something similar.

Tas

tar4heel2 · 04-21-2018, 10:43 AM

Thanks, Taz. Make sure when you use it to turn off the Pixel-Shift; You can only process Pixel-Shift with Pentax software.

**Tas** · 04-21-2018, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by tar4heel2

Thanks, Taz. Make sure when you use it to turn off the Pixel-Shift; You can only process Pixel-Shift with Pentax software.

I rarely use Pixel shift though if On1 added pixel shift capability to their software that would be different. Alas it's apparently not on their radar despite the multiple requests via the On1 webpage.

Anyhoo, I went out a little while ago and captured some images with the K-1 in PEF and Adobe RGB. I deliberately over exposed a couple in case that was something to consider so the two examples will have correct exposure and over-exposed elements in case this was relevant to what you're seeing. I did not get pink colour fill like you in any of the images.

In case your system could be contributing I uploaded two images, one slightly over-exposed, the other quite a bit over-exposed. You can access them via my Dropbox folder here: PEF test shots If you have any dramas with accessing them let me know. I know this is a really small sample considering you weren't seeing it on all of your images but I no longer have a paid Dropbox account to add more without maxing out my storage.

Never having used PEF with On1 Photo RAW I could immediately see some differences to images captured in DNG. The first is the delay to the visual indicator for parts that are over-exposed. I noticed this whilst in browse with just a single image showing (detail view) and clicking on the arrow in the Levels pane. With DNG the red for over-exposure shows immediately. With the PEF there's a delay of a second or two.

The other difference I notice is that with DNG files On1 creates a '.on1' file if you use the new import process. If you just copy/paste files into a folder it only creates an 'on1' file for an image as you do PP. However with the PEF files it also added a '.xmp' file for each image. I'm not sure what that means but I assume the program needs more done in the background to work with PEF so thought these points were worth raising.

I'd also reiterate my suggestion regarding trying images captured in DNG format in case it's a lack of effort on their behalf in supporting the 645Z and/or the PEF file format. As much as I like the program they are like all the rest when it comes to chasing the crowds and 'we Pentaxians' don't constitute much of a crowd.

If you want me to check an image that displays pink on your system send something my way and I'll see if it replicates the problem with my system.

Tas

Fcsnt54 · 04-27-2018, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by tar4heel2

I LOVE, I mean LUV my 645Z and use DxO PhotoLab to process my RAW files, which gives excellent results.

I've been using On1 Photo RAW recently, and have a problem with the results: There is a pink color in some of the brighter portions of my image, but it's not in every shot and only with 645Z .PEF files.

Anyone else seen this problem?

I have had hints it could be a display card problem on my MacBook Pro mid 2014. But I only see this phenomenon with On1. They keep asking for more information when I submitted a trouble ticket. Tired of dealing with them, slow as molasses to respond.

See the screen shot:

Well thats odd, i havent seen that issue yet. Been using on1 and the z since december. Generally i shoot in dng and have had no issues, but ill try using pef and overexposing and seeing what will happen. Im not sure if ill be able to recreate the same thing. I generally use windows, but have access to a mac that i might be able to try it on. Is that image just straight from pef to jpeg, did you make any adjustments?

tar4heel2 · 04-29-2018, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by Fcsnt54

Well thats odd, i havent seen that issue yet. Been using on1 and the z since december. Generally i shoot in dng and have had no issues, but ill try using pef and overexposing and seeing what will happen. Im not sure if ill be able to recreate the same thing. I generally use windows, but have access to a mac that i might be able to try it on. Is that image just straight from pef to jpeg, did you make any adjustments?

Thanks, Fcsnt54; but keep in mind these are NOT over-exposed areas of the image, just bright areas with plenty of detail. That's what's so frustrating about it.

Fcsnt54 · 05-01-2018, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by tar4heel2

Thanks, Fcsnt54; but keep in mind these are NOT over-exposed areas of the image, just bright areas with plenty of detail. That's what's so frustrating about it.

I haven't much time to really look at the issue, but I did do a quick check. There is something funny going on. I get no issues when shooting DNG, or jpeg. As far as PEF I am noticing the Purple, this is with shooting towards a regular light. I started with just normal exposure, no compensation and the file is fine. when I brought it up to where the compensation is plus 3, I get the purple effect on the DNG file in ON1, but only in the develop tab. I adjust the exposure up, the purple goes away. Only reason why I mentioned overexpose is just to amplify the issue if there was one, which looks like there is an issue with the program and reading 645Z files in PEF format, and not DNG.

On the one picture you showed if you adjust the exposure up in the slider does the purple go away?

I should have more time the next couple of days to really try out some test shots, but this is an interesting find.

tar4heel2 · 05-02-2018, 08:21 PM

YES! It does, how weird!! And One1 has been slow to communicate. Submitting a trouble ticket was useless. They asked me for more info and went silent.

tar4heel2 · 07-28-2018, 12:50 PM

Has anyone else seen this problem?

Fcsnt54 · 07-28-2018, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by tar4heel2

Has anyone else seen this problem?

Ill see if there was a correction with the new update when i get a chance, but im still only seeing this oddity with .pef and not .dng raw files

tar4heel2 · 07-29-2018, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by Fcsnt54

Ill see if there was a correction with the new update when i get a chance, but im still only seeing this oddity with .pef and not .dng raw files

Yes, it only happens with .pef files, but it should not do that at all.

Fcsnt54 · 08-05-2018, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by tar4heel2

Yes, it only happens with .pef files, but it should not do that at all.

Yeah i just took some pictures and tried it again. Still looks like it does it to the overexposed sections only with the .pef file. I cant remember if i asked this, but is there a reason why you shoot with the .pef raw file instead of the .dng? Just kind of curious. Can’t think there really is any difference between the two except it seems like certain programs prefer the .dng files.

tar4heel2 · 08-07-2018, 06:48 AM

Originally posted by Fcsnt54

Yeah i just took some pictures and tried it again. Still looks like it does it to the overexposed sections only with the .pef file. I cant remember if i asked this, but is there a reason why you shoot with the .pef raw file instead of the .dng? Just kind of curious. Can’t think there really is any difference between the two except it seems like certain programs prefer the .dng files.

I don't use PNG because according to Wikipedia "PNG was designed for transferring images on the Internet, not for professional-quality print graphics, and therefore does not support non-RGB color spaces such as CMYK."

and

"PNG was created as an improved, non-patented replacement for Graphics Interchange Format (GIF), and is the most widely used lossless image compression format on the Internet."

Given there IS compression-with the term 'lossless' akin to saying 'fat-free butter'-there would be degradation ini the image. Any file format that features compression is throwing away digital information. The term "lossless" derives from an algorithm that deletes digital information and then replaces it with what it thinks was there previously. Hardly something I would want to be happening to my RAW files. PNG is not a true RAW file format.

abruzzi · 08-07-2018, 07:51 AM

PNG is not DNG:

Digital Negative - Wikipedia

"Digital Negative (DNG) is a patented, open lossless raw image format written by Adobe used for digital photography."

EDIT: Also, when lossless is used to describe compression, it means that the original data can be rebuilt with bit for bit accuracy. Compression that can't do that is called "lossy". Things like ZIP, GZIP, and BZIP are lossless, but they are also not optimized for images, and are commonly used for miscellaneous computer files.

**kaseki** · 08-07-2018, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Fcsnt54

Yeah i just took some pictures and tried it again. Still looks like it does it to the overexposed sections only with the .pef file. I cant remember if i asked this, but is there a reason why you shoot with the .pef raw file instead of the .dng? Just kind of curious. Can’t think there really is any difference between the two except it seems like certain programs prefer the .dng files.

As a result of looking it up today, I can relate a reason, probably only applicable to a few: According to a Darktable file extension list, Darktable can perform post processing on pef files but can only open for viewing dng files. This may be related to Adobe's control of dng. Those using Lightroom, which I think is owned by Adobe, would not have this issue. Darktable is free and also runs on Linux.

04-20-2018, 03:11 PM	#1
tar4heel2 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 28	Problems using On1 Photo RAW with 645Z files I LOVE, I mean LUV my 645Z and use DxO PhotoLab to process my RAW files, which gives excellent results. I've been using On1 Photo RAW recently, and have a problem with the results: There is a pink color in some of the brighter portions of my image, but it's not in every shot and only with 645Z .PEF files. Anyone else seen this problem? I have had hints it could be a display card problem on my MacBook Pro mid 2014. But I only see this phenomenon with On1. They keep asking for more information when I submitted a trouble ticket. Tired of dealing with them, slow as molasses to respond. See the screen shot:

08-07-2018, 07:51 AM	#14
abruzzi Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: New Mexico Posts: 788	PNG is not DNG: Digital Negative - Wikipedia "Digital Negative (DNG) is a patented, open lossless raw image format written by Adobe used for digital photography." EDIT: Also, when lossless is used to describe compression, it means that the original data can be rebuilt with bit for bit accuracy. Compression that can't do that is called "lossy". Things like ZIP, GZIP, and BZIP are lossless, but they are also not optimized for images, and are commonly used for miscellaneous computer files. Last edited by abruzzi; 08-07-2018 at 07:57 AM.

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04-21-2018, 03:55 AM	#2
Tas Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Brisbane, QLD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,202	Originally posted by tar4heel2 I LOVE, I mean LUV my 645Z and use DxO PhotoLab to process my RAW files, which gives excellent results. I've been using On1 Photo RAW recently, and have a problem with the results: There is a pink color in some of the brighter portions of my image, but it's not in every shot and only with 645Z .PEF files. Anyone else seen this problem? I have had hints it could be a display card problem on my MacBook Pro mid 2014. But I only see this phenomenon with On1. They keep asking for more information when I submitted a trouble ticket. Tired of dealing with them, slow as molasses to respond. See the screen shot: I can't say I've ever seen that before, it's like there's a luminance mask with a colour palette. Could it be the highlight indicator for over exposed parts of a scene? This is normally red so I'm guessing not. I don't get this problem but then I shoot a K-1 and use DNG. It might be worth trying some images shot as DNG to see if you're getting the same problem. My system is a little older than yours and Win 7, but if you like I can try shooting some PEF files with my K-1 and see if I get something similar. Tas

04-21-2018, 10:43 AM	#3
tar4heel2 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 28 Original Poster	Thanks, Taz. Make sure when you use it to turn off the Pixel-Shift; You can only process Pixel-Shift with Pentax software.

04-21-2018, 08:02 PM	#4
Tas Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Brisbane, QLD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,202	Originally posted by tar4heel2 Thanks, Taz. Make sure when you use it to turn off the Pixel-Shift; You can only process Pixel-Shift with Pentax software. I rarely use Pixel shift though if On1 added pixel shift capability to their software that would be different. Alas it's apparently not on their radar despite the multiple requests via the On1 webpage. Anyhoo, I went out a little while ago and captured some images with the K-1 in PEF and Adobe RGB. I deliberately over exposed a couple in case that was something to consider so the two examples will have correct exposure and over-exposed elements in case this was relevant to what you're seeing. I did not get pink colour fill like you in any of the images. In case your system could be contributing I uploaded two images, one slightly over-exposed, the other quite a bit over-exposed. You can access them via my Dropbox folder here: PEF test shots If you have any dramas with accessing them let me know. I know this is a really small sample considering you weren't seeing it on all of your images but I no longer have a paid Dropbox account to add more without maxing out my storage. Never having used PEF with On1 Photo RAW I could immediately see some differences to images captured in DNG. The first is the delay to the visual indicator for parts that are over-exposed. I noticed this whilst in browse with just a single image showing (detail view) and clicking on the arrow in the Levels pane. With DNG the red for over-exposure shows immediately. With the PEF there's a delay of a second or two. The other difference I notice is that with DNG files On1 creates a '.on1' file if you use the new import process. If you just copy/paste files into a folder it only creates an 'on1' file for an image as you do PP. However with the PEF files it also added a '.xmp' file for each image. I'm not sure what that means but I assume the program needs more done in the background to work with PEF so thought these points were worth raising. I'd also reiterate my suggestion regarding trying images captured in DNG format in case it's a lack of effort on their behalf in supporting the 645Z and/or the PEF file format. As much as I like the program they are like all the rest when it comes to chasing the crowds and 'we Pentaxians' don't constitute much of a crowd. If you want me to check an image that displays pink on your system send something my way and I'll see if it replicates the problem with my system. Tas

04-27-2018, 07:07 PM	#5
Fcsnt54 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: California Posts: 621	Originally posted by tar4heel2 I LOVE, I mean LUV my 645Z and use DxO PhotoLab to process my RAW files, which gives excellent results. I've been using On1 Photo RAW recently, and have a problem with the results: There is a pink color in some of the brighter portions of my image, but it's not in every shot and only with 645Z .PEF files. Anyone else seen this problem? I have had hints it could be a display card problem on my MacBook Pro mid 2014. But I only see this phenomenon with On1. They keep asking for more information when I submitted a trouble ticket. Tired of dealing with them, slow as molasses to respond. See the screen shot: Well thats odd, i havent seen that issue yet. Been using on1 and the z since december. Generally i shoot in dng and have had no issues, but ill try using pef and overexposing and seeing what will happen. Im not sure if ill be able to recreate the same thing. I generally use windows, but have access to a mac that i might be able to try it on. Is that image just straight from pef to jpeg, did you make any adjustments?

04-29-2018, 08:02 AM	#6
tar4heel2 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 28 Original Poster	Originally posted by Fcsnt54 Well thats odd, i havent seen that issue yet. Been using on1 and the z since december. Generally i shoot in dng and have had no issues, but ill try using pef and overexposing and seeing what will happen. Im not sure if ill be able to recreate the same thing. I generally use windows, but have access to a mac that i might be able to try it on. Is that image just straight from pef to jpeg, did you make any adjustments? Thanks, Fcsnt54; but keep in mind these are NOT over-exposed areas of the image, just bright areas with plenty of detail. That's what's so frustrating about it.

05-01-2018, 09:48 PM	#7
Fcsnt54 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: California Posts: 621	Originally posted by tar4heel2 Thanks, Fcsnt54; but keep in mind these are NOT over-exposed areas of the image, just bright areas with plenty of detail. That's what's so frustrating about it. I haven't much time to really look at the issue, but I did do a quick check. There is something funny going on. I get no issues when shooting DNG, or jpeg. As far as PEF I am noticing the Purple, this is with shooting towards a regular light. I started with just normal exposure, no compensation and the file is fine. when I brought it up to where the compensation is plus 3, I get the purple effect on the DNG file in ON1, but only in the develop tab. I adjust the exposure up, the purple goes away. Only reason why I mentioned overexpose is just to amplify the issue if there was one, which looks like there is an issue with the program and reading 645Z files in PEF format, and not DNG. On the one picture you showed if you adjust the exposure up in the slider does the purple go away? I should have more time the next couple of days to really try out some test shots, but this is an interesting find.

05-02-2018, 08:21 PM	#8
tar4heel2 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 28 Original Poster	YES! It does, how weird!! And One1 has been slow to communicate. Submitting a trouble ticket was useless. They asked me for more info and went silent.

07-28-2018, 12:50 PM	#9
tar4heel2 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 28 Original Poster	Has anyone else seen this problem?

07-28-2018, 03:49 PM	#10
Fcsnt54 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: California Posts: 621	Originally posted by tar4heel2 Has anyone else seen this problem? Ill see if there was a correction with the new update when i get a chance, but im still only seeing this oddity with .pef and not .dng raw files

07-29-2018, 10:58 AM	#11
tar4heel2 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 28 Original Poster	Originally posted by Fcsnt54 Ill see if there was a correction with the new update when i get a chance, but im still only seeing this oddity with .pef and not .dng raw files Yes, it only happens with .pef files, but it should not do that at all.

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08-05-2018, 10:15 PM	#12
Fcsnt54 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: California Posts: 621	Originally posted by tar4heel2 Yes, it only happens with .pef files, but it should not do that at all. Yeah i just took some pictures and tried it again. Still looks like it does it to the overexposed sections only with the .pef file. I cant remember if i asked this, but is there a reason why you shoot with the .pef raw file instead of the .dng? Just kind of curious. Can’t think there really is any difference between the two except it seems like certain programs prefer the .dng files.

08-07-2018, 06:48 AM	#13
tar4heel2 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 28 Original Poster	Originally posted by Fcsnt54 Yeah i just took some pictures and tried it again. Still looks like it does it to the overexposed sections only with the .pef file. I cant remember if i asked this, but is there a reason why you shoot with the .pef raw file instead of the .dng? Just kind of curious. Can’t think there really is any difference between the two except it seems like certain programs prefer the .dng files. I don't use PNG because according to Wikipedia "PNG was designed for transferring images on the Internet, not for professional-quality print graphics, and therefore does not support non-RGB color spaces such as CMYK." and "PNG was created as an improved, non-patented replacement for Graphics Interchange Format (GIF), and is the most widely used lossless image compression format on the Internet." Given there IS compression-with the term 'lossless' akin to saying 'fat-free butter'-there would be degradation ini the image. Any file format that features compression is throwing away digital information. The term "lossless" derives from an algorithm that deletes digital information and then replaces it with what it thinks was there previously. Hardly something I would want to be happening to my RAW files. PNG is not a true RAW file format.

08-07-2018, 03:12 PM	#15
kaseki Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,138	Originally posted by Fcsnt54 Yeah i just took some pictures and tried it again. Still looks like it does it to the overexposed sections only with the .pef file. I cant remember if i asked this, but is there a reason why you shoot with the .pef raw file instead of the .dng? Just kind of curious. Can’t think there really is any difference between the two except it seems like certain programs prefer the .dng files. As a result of looking it up today, I can relate a reason, probably only applicable to a few: According to a Darktable file extension list, Darktable can perform post processing on pef files but can only open for viewing dng files. This may be related to Adobe's control of dng. Those using Lightroom, which I think is owned by Adobe, would not have this issue. Darktable is free and also runs on Linux.