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06-24-2018, 04:13 AM   #1
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Pentax 645n | I want to shoot film

Hi All,

Been a while since I have posted on here, normally asking questions about the 645Z.

However, I have decided I would like to give film a try for a personal project of mine to create fine art landscapes etc and I am still torn between the Mamiya 645 Super and the Pentax 645N.

So any advice you can give me about either camera would be great, how you liked using, what to look out for etc would be a great help.

look forward to your comments!

06-24-2018, 04:28 AM   #2
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I have the 645 (not N) the original MF camera and A series lenses. The A lenses which can be used on the N or the Digital Camras are inexpensive and very good (try the 120 f4 Macro). I had used them on a 645D I had for some time and they were very good. So one benefit of Pentax is the availability of three series of lenses, A, FA and D FA, with the latter being very expensive.
06-24-2018, 10:30 AM - 1 Like   #3
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I have a pair of Pentax 645NII cameras which are quite similar to the 645N with a few updates; one of them is mirror lock-up which I find extremely useful for landscapes. If you decide on the Pentax and see a NII at or near the price of a N, get the NII.
06-24-2018, 10:39 AM   #4
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If you ask this question on a Mamiya forum, they will talk you into buying Mamiya. One serious thing to consider ... do you want to buy the same lens twice. for example a short portrait tele?

06-24-2018, 10:56 AM - 1 Like   #5
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Both cameras will have there benefits and drawbacks.

I have the original 645 and the 645n. If you don't need AF the original 645 isn't any less of a camera than the 645n, though there are differences in the way they handle.
Benefits of the Pentax are, it's has motor drive and AE prism built in and is smaller than a similar equipped Mamiya 645. Both Pentax cameras have a standard threaded cable release socket, and the 645n also has a socket for the Pentax electronic Cable Switch F. One often overlooked feature that is (I think) unique to the Pentax 645 cameras, is that there are 2 tripod sockets. One on the bottom and one on the side for shooting vertically.
Drawbacks include, lack of mirror lock up, lack of changeable finders and film backs.

The Mamiya 645 system (I've never used one) is more of a full system, with changeable finders and film backs that can be changed mid-roll. The Mamiya has mirror lock up.
Drawbacks being, if you want motor drive and auto exposure, you need to the proper bits for those features. The Mamiya doesn't include (normally) a threaded cable release socket, you need to find the little adapter they made for using a threaded cable release. The Mamiya, once a motor drive and AE prism is larger than the Pentax.

Another option worth exploring is the Bronica ETRSI.
Here's a review of the system that I wrote,
Bronica ETR-Si review | Colton Allen | Film Shooters Collective
06-24-2018, 12:29 PM   #6
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If you already own the 645Z, I would stick to the P645NII for lens interchangeability reasons. If you don't own the Z you might consider the 67 since you are thinking of fine art work.
06-24-2018, 06:55 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by SeBEx Quote
Hi All,

Been a while since I have posted on here, normally asking questions about the 645Z.

However, I have decided I would like to give film a try for a personal project of mine to create fine art landscapes etc and I am still torn between the Mamiya 645 Super and the Pentax 645N.
I've been shooting with a Pentax 645 since 1986 and more recently with the 645N. I would not have stayed with Pentax if I thought any of the alternatives would have been better for me.

Both the Mamiya and the Pentax 645 are excellent camera systems, but I would say the Pentax has the advantage of weight and ruggedness for street and nature photography where as the Mamiya is more designed for studio work. Of course you can do either with both, but I would say that is a general difference.

If you have or plan on getting a digital medium format Pentax or Mamiya, then it makes the most sense to stay with that system for film as well.

06-25-2018, 10:11 AM   #8
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I have a Mamiya 645 Pro (the SV kit with simplified AE prism & winder), although a very good camera, the only advantage over a 645/N/Nii is the interchangeable film back - which (depending on your workflow) is either really important or something you can live without. With only 15 frames per 120 roll, you're not usually far from the end anyway. When I bought it, it was a borderline decision - with 20yrs of hindsight and the now D & Z available - it was definitely the wrong decision. The Mamiya is more bulky than the P645 once you put the prism & winder on it - you need a prism for framing vertical shots. The manual focus lenses are quite cheap and readily available (at least in the UK).

The Mamiya though is very close to being a dead-end system: The manual focus lenses fit the AF/AFD bodies but you lose open-aperture metering, the AF lenses may also fit the manual focus bodies (I don't know?) but again you'll lose open-aperture metering. In effect you have to pick an MF or AF system and stick with it (unlike the 645/N/Nii where you can mix and match much more easily).

I also have a P6x7 - I moved up from 645 and as desertscape pointed out, would recommend looking at this option - the format is better for artistic shooting, the camera isn't really any bigger or heavier and the lenses will fit a P645 with the adapter.
06-25-2018, 09:44 PM   #9
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Move up! Move up! Move up to the 6x7 format, which gives you both the perpetual general appeal of 6x6 (cropped) as the "perfect format" and the full 6x7 frame -- referred to as "the ideal format" -- versatility-plus, and image quality that must be personally seen on the lightbox, never mind about crappy scans on the web purporting to represent the 6x7 systems finest.

645 for many people is not much bigger than the postage stamp format of 35mm.
You will also have the availability of very, very high performance lenses in the 6x7 stable, far and above what Mamiya offers. Fine art photography (whether it is pursued in analogue or digital or both spheres) will require an investment in a lot of time, skill and equipment to get the best results possible, to reach out and touch people, rather than just create a pretty image. Top-shelf photography, "fine art" if you will, has less to do with format than it does for the solid human skills of perception, awareness, aesthetics, visual arrangement and knowledge of subject. Without any of these as foundation building blocks, photography in any format will be a struggle of making constant comparisons to others' work while not moving out of the starting blocks yourself.
06-25-2018, 10:16 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Silent Street Quote
Move up! Move up! Move up to the 6x7 format,

645 for many people is not much bigger than the postage stamp format of 35mm.
I love your enthusiasm and passion for 67, but saying 645 is not much bigger than 35mm is not exactly accurate. 645 is about 2.7x the size of 35mm.

It's sort of like saying 4x5" large format is not much bigger than 67...you need to go 8x10".

35mm=24x36mm=864 sq. mm.
645=56×41.5mm=2,324 sq. mm. (269% larger than 35mm)
6x6=56x56mm=3,136 sq. mm. (135% larger than 645)
6x7=56x70mm-3,920 sq. mm. (169% larger than 645)

Each format has it's pros and cons, and all this medium format is tiny compared to 4x5" (101x127mm=12,827 sq. mm.) or 8x10" (203x254mm=51,562 sq. mm.) large format.
06-28-2018, 10:30 AM   #11
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Hi all,

Thank you for the advice you have given. I have been lucky enough to find a good example of a Pentax 645 for a price I simply could not miss.

However, now I need some lens advice... I am already looking at the 75mm 2.8.. any other suggestions?
06-28-2018, 12:07 PM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by SeBEx Quote
However, now I need some lens advice... I am already looking at the 75mm 2.8.. any other suggestions?
My two favorite lenses on my 645 and 645N is the 75mm f/2.8 and the 35mm f/3.5.

My least favorite is my 200mm f/4....just too soft for my taste. If you need a telephoto, the 120mm f/4 is an excellent macro, or if you don't need macro, the 150mm f/3.5 (the 150mm f/2.8 is even nicer with AF but 3-4x the price).
06-29-2018, 05:43 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
My two favorite lenses on my 645 and 645N is the 75mm f/2.8 and the 35mm f/3.5.



My least favorite is my 200mm f/4....just too soft for my taste. If you need a telephoto, the 120mm f/4 is an excellent macro, or if you don't need macro, the 150mm f/3.5 (the 150mm f/2.8 is even nicer with AF but 3-4x the price).

My example of the 645 FA 200/4 (which is an entirely different lens than the 645 A version) is quite sharp—I mean critically sharp—at least by f/8. And at f/4, I’d have to be printing pretty big for the softness to be a problem. For portraits, though, the softness is a feature, not a bug. One can shoot wide open, and the tiny bit of residual spherical aberration flatters subjects and improves the bokeh, same as with the justifiably famous original Zeiss Sonnar 180/2.8.

I gotta do a comparison of those two lenses sometime soon.

The A version is a four-element traditional telephoto, and probably it has limitations, like the early Takumar 200 for the 6x7 (which I own, in addition to the later version). But the 645 FA 200 is a modern design with 6 elements in 5 groups.

To the question of great affordable lenses for the film 645, the 45-85 zoom is good enough to defy the usual pronouncements against zooms. I bought my FA version with an NII, both new, about 15 years ago. I agree about the 35 and the 120, both of which are exceptional. My 75 is a leaf shutter lens, which is a slightly different optical design than the FA version, and it’s what I would call a typically sharp medium format normal. It’s not sharper than the 45-85 at the same apertures, but it is two stops faster.

Rick “who stops down for landscapes” Denney
06-29-2018, 08:30 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
My example of the 645 FA 200/4 (which is an entirely different lens than the 645 A version) is quite sharp—I mean critically sharp—at least by f/8. And at f/4, I’d have to be printing pretty big for the softness to be a problem. For portraits, though, the softness is a feature, not a bug.
Rick
Yes, I have the 645 A, and it's good to know that the 200mm 645 FA version is sharper. My minimum sized prints are 16x20" and often larger, so I prefer lenses that err on the sharper side as it is easier to soften an image than to sharpen it.

Now you have me curious enough to do a side by side comparo with my 645-A and my 645-FA 75mm siblings. I realize that all three 75mm including the LS are 6 elements in 5 groups, but I would expect some sample variation.
06-29-2018, 09:10 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
Yes, I have the 645 A, and it's good to know that the 200mm 645 FA version is sharper. My minimum sized prints are 16x20" and often larger, so I prefer lenses that err on the sharper side as it is easier to soften an image than to sharpen it.

Now you have me curious enough to do a side by side comparo with my 645-A and my 645-FA 75mm siblings. I realize that all three 75mm including the LS are 6 elements in 5 groups, but I would expect some sample variation.
Yeah, my standard is a 16x20 that invites close inspection, without undermining the illusion of endless detail. I haven't printed from this 200/4 at that size, but I think it would do that even at wide apertures. I have to view it from about four feet to maintain that illusion when viewed 1:1, which is a print seven feet wide at my monitor's resolution. At 3.5 feet wide, it maintains that illusion pretty well, even though the print resolution would only be about 200 ppi. And this is without targeted sharpening.

By f/8, the image is entirely constrained by sensor resolution. Print as big as you want.

Rick "the tiny bit of softness at f/4 is natural looking even on a really big print viewed closely" Denney
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