Pentax 645Z replacement?

Frank Armstrong · 07-28-2018, 10:25 AM

I note that the price of the 645Z has dropped considerably -- down to about $5K currently. Does that mean that a newer model is coming out soon? I bought the 645D five-and-a-half years ago, and was thinking about up-grading to the 645Z. I have been extremely happy with my "D", but would like better high ISO performance. Any opinions?

pathdoc · 07-28-2018, 10:39 AM

I suspect they are trying to undercut Fuji's MF Mirrorless camera.

torashi · 07-28-2018, 10:47 AM

Just go for it, and send your D in for a full spectrum conversion.

torashi · 07-28-2018, 11:11 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by pathdoc

I suspect they are trying to undercut Fuji's MF Mirrorless camera.

I think they sold more than expected, so naturally the development costs drop by being distributed on to more units. Once a threshold of units has been surpassed, they can offer these discounts.

I don't think it's really undercutting. At the current discount prices, a GFX + 32-64 is at ~7.7k, while a 645z + 28-45 is at ~10k.

pathdoc · 07-28-2018, 01:52 PM

I thought the Z was cheaper than that. I suspect there are significant savings for those already owning N and D models who can use older glass.

**kaseki** · 07-28-2018, 02:18 PM

New 645Z price at the USA camera stores this forum links to are around $5500 for a camera body only. Excellent condition used prices from USA and Japan for 645 A and FA lenses are pretty reasonable. I recently obtained from Japan an excellent condition SMC FA 645 45-85 f/4.5 zoom for $369. This lens was, for me, indistinguishable from new, other than the lack of original packaging and its soft lens case, which I obtained separately.)

texandrews · 07-28-2018, 03:07 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Frank Armstrong

I note that the price of the 645Z has dropped considerably -- down to about $5K currently. Does that mean that a newer model is coming out soon?

Who knows? Pentax could do with a bit more leaky-ness like Fuji. The silent treatment to the faithful just gives nervous types agita, and then they are all over the forums everywhere. Bad for biz.

Quote:

I bought the 645D five-and-a-half years ago, and was thinking about up-grading to the 645Z. I have been extremely happy with my "D", but would like better high ISO performance. Any opinions?

BUY. THE. Z! Yes, I was shouting!

alvaro_garcia · 07-29-2018, 04:39 AM

Do you think the 645Z is worth the purchase if I already own the K1?

texandrews · 07-29-2018, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by alvaro_garcia

Do you think the 645Z is worth the purchase if I already own the K1?

Only you can answer that question. 1. What are you using your camera(s) for, and how? 2. Do you already have any lenses for it? 3. What is the nature of your need? 4. What kind of income do you have?

If the answer to #2 is; Yes, 2 or more; and the answer to #4 is "upper middle class, no kids in private school/college, no dependents with illness (any age)" or "wealthy", then unqualified yes, whatever the answers to #'s 1 and 3.

If the answers to # 2 is "no", and #4 is "just middle class", then I'd say you need to answer #3 as "compelling professional/artistic need", and #1 as " a use that requires the best possible IQ/DR/ISO combination, and/or file malleability, and/or ruggedness, and/or large printing, and/or ability to use in any conditions/time of day/locations, or combinations thereof".

This is how I made my calculations, and how I made the very, very happy decision to get a Z, and a bunch of lenses as well. And, btw, a K1 as backup.

alvaro_garcia · 07-29-2018, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by texandrews

Only you can answer that question. 1. What are you using your camera(s) for, and how? 2. Do you already have any lenses for it? 3. What is the nature of your need? 4. What kind of income do you have?

If the answer to #2 is; Yes, 2 or more; and the answer to #4 is "upper middle class, no kids in private school/college, no dependents with illness (any age)" or "wealthy", then unqualified yes, whatever the answers to #'s 1 and 3.

If the answers to # 2 is "no", and #4 is "just middle class", then I'd say you need to answer #3 as "compelling professional/artistic need", and #1 as " a use that requires the best possible IQ/DR/ISO combination, and/or file malleability, and/or ruggedness, and/or large printing, and/or ability to use in any conditions/time of day/locations, or combinations thereof".

This is how I made my calculations, and how I made the very, very happy decision to get a Z, and a bunch of lenses as well. And, btw, a K1 as backup.

Interesting evaluation. Do you think the 645Z is a clear advantage over the K1 like a full frame is over an APS-C?

texandrews · 07-29-2018, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by alvaro_garcia

Interesting evaluation. Do you think the 645Z is a clear advantage over the K1 like a full frame is over an APS-C?

Good question....and I think it depends on the FF camera in question. Between the A7RIII or a D850? mmmm, maybe not as much, but I'd still go with the Z for my purposes. I'd say if you were a super-expert, then maybe not at all. But I need files that are forgiving with respect to my incompetence, and so the Z wins. I'm also shooting a lot of stuff where I only get one shot at it, so again the Z is safer. Between the K1 and the Z? In certain ways, yes, although pixel-shift levels the playing field more (when it can be used...). For me, the Z is just so damned easy to use. You can royally $%&# up and still get usable (and better) files. There's something about them that means they're easier to deal with in post. I feel like they are softer, like a good, carveable wood, and the FF files are more brittle, like dry, hard wood that can chip. But as you can see, we start to get into feelings here, and grey areas. Which is why I laid my evaluation out as I did. I shot my Z alongside my A7R until I got my K1, and now shoot my K1 alongside my Z.

But the Z blows everything Canon has out of the water AFAIC. I use Canons at work when I have to (I'd rather lug my own gear in, most times, unless it's for video).

jadeyphoto · 07-29-2018, 05:23 PM

I love my 645Z and lenses but it's VERY irksome there has been no news or leak regarding the 645z replacement, nor is there any news about a professional program. I want to stay with Pentax but their communication and pace of development need to improve or they won't attract new system users and the existing ones will eventually bail as competitors continue to innovate with both equipment and services.

Originally posted by texandrews

Who knows? Pentax could do with a bit more leaky-ness like Fuji. The silent treatment to the faithful just gives nervous types agita, and then they are all over the forums everywhere. Bad for biz. BUY. THE. Z! Yes, I was shouting!

texandrews · 07-30-2018, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by jadeyphoto

I love my 645Z and lenses but it's VERY irksome there has been no news or leak regarding the 645z replacement,

Well, I think maybe the irksome bit has to do with you. I wouldn't expect much of a rapid upgrade cycle to a camera of this nature. And Pentax is soooo tight lipped, which as I said I think hurts them. Also, they've got to be taxed as a small company, trying to develop along as many lines as they've got---more than any other! What I would love to see would be a board sawp style upgrade like the one being done currently with the K1.

Quote:

nor is there any news about a professional program.

Ah, now that is an excellent point, and one that could go a long way to settling some nerves, and is in fact necessary.

Quote:

I want to stay with Pentax but their communication and pace of development need to improve or they won't attract new system users and the existing ones will eventually bail as competitors continue to innovate with both equipment and services.

I won't bail. No other system is as affordable as this one, and besides, it pretty much does everything I need professionally. Artistically I could use more, but that's not really a major problem. There's stitching and stacking I could do with my artwork. Even my pro work.

**loveisageless** · 08-03-2018, 10:27 PM

Don't know if it means anything, but I have been watching the used prices for 645Zs at Adorama and they just dropped the price $500 to $4099.99 on a used 645Z in "Demo" condition and $400 on one in "excellent plus" condition. The latter is now in the sub $4000 price range. Pretty big price drop pretty suddenly...

BrunoL · 08-04-2018, 07:35 AM

I make a distinction between the camera and the company. Since purchasing my Z in Aug. 2014, I have been extremely happy with it, so much so that I invested in the system and bought the 28-45mm and 90mm lenses. Outstanding performers. Nothing else to say. I love that camera and those two lenses in particular.

BUT the company itself leaves a great deal to be desired beyond its tight-lipped approach. My biggest gripe is that they have failed to deliver on their lens roadmap. Over the last 4 years, we have seen a revamped 35mm. That's it. Does the company believe in the system and respect those who have bought into the system considering their repeated failures to communicate what the future holds in terms of new bodies, lenses, etc.?

My take is that we aren't going to see a new "Z" any time soon (or new lenses for that matter), and that the recent drop in price is due to the new kids on the block (GFX, X1D) and their new lenses.

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07-28-2018, 10:25 AM	#1
Frank Armstrong New Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 17	Pentax 645Z replacement? I note that the price of the 645Z has dropped considerably -- down to about $5K currently. Does that mean that a newer model is coming out soon? I bought the 645D five-and-a-half years ago, and was thinking about up-grading to the 645Z. I have been extremely happy with my "D", but would like better high ISO performance. Any opinions?

07-28-2018, 10:39 AM	#2
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	I suspect they are trying to undercut Fuji's MF Mirrorless camera.

07-28-2018, 10:47 AM	#3
torashi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Medellín Posts: 1,322	Just go for it, and send your D in for a full spectrum conversion.

07-28-2018, 11:11 AM - 1 Like	#4
torashi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Medellín Posts: 1,322	Originally posted by pathdoc I suspect they are trying to undercut Fuji's MF Mirrorless camera. I think they sold more than expected, so naturally the development costs drop by being distributed on to more units. Once a threshold of units has been surpassed, they can offer these discounts. I don't think it's really undercutting. At the current discount prices, a GFX + 32-64 is at ~7.7k, while a 645z + 28-45 is at ~10k.

07-28-2018, 01:52 PM	#5
pathdoc Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2015 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,381	I thought the Z was cheaper than that. I suspect there are significant savings for those already owning N and D models who can use older glass.

07-28-2018, 02:18 PM	#6
kaseki Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,138	New 645Z price at the USA camera stores this forum links to are around $5500 for a camera body only. Excellent condition used prices from USA and Japan for 645 A and FA lenses are pretty reasonable. I recently obtained from Japan an excellent condition SMC FA 645 45-85 f/4.5 zoom for $369. This lens was, for me, indistinguishable from new, other than the lack of original packaging and its soft lens case, which I obtained separately.)

07-28-2018, 03:07 PM - 1 Like	#7
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by Frank Armstrong I note that the price of the 645Z has dropped considerably -- down to about $5K currently. Does that mean that a newer model is coming out soon? Who knows? Pentax could do with a bit more leaky-ness like Fuji. The silent treatment to the faithful just gives nervous types agita, and then they are all over the forums everywhere. Bad for biz. Quote: I bought the 645D five-and-a-half years ago, and was thinking about up-grading to the 645Z. I have been extremely happy with my "D", but would like better high ISO performance. Any opinions? BUY. THE. Z! Yes, I was shouting!

07-29-2018, 04:39 AM	#8
alvaro_garcia Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 185	Do you think the 645Z is worth the purchase if I already own the K1?

07-29-2018, 09:40 AM	#9
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by alvaro_garcia Do you think the 645Z is worth the purchase if I already own the K1? Only you can answer that question. 1. What are you using your camera(s) for, and how? 2. Do you already have any lenses for it? 3. What is the nature of your need? 4. What kind of income do you have? If the answer to #2 is; Yes, 2 or more; and the answer to #4 is "upper middle class, no kids in private school/college, no dependents with illness (any age)" or "wealthy", then unqualified yes, whatever the answers to #'s 1 and 3. If the answers to # 2 is "no", and #4 is "just middle class", then I'd say you need to answer #3 as "compelling professional/artistic need", and #1 as " a use that requires the best possible IQ/DR/ISO combination, and/or file malleability, and/or ruggedness, and/or large printing, and/or ability to use in any conditions/time of day/locations, or combinations thereof". This is how I made my calculations, and how I made the very, very happy decision to get a Z, and a bunch of lenses as well. And, btw, a K1 as backup.

07-29-2018, 02:47 PM	#10
alvaro_garcia Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 185	Originally posted by texandrews Only you can answer that question. 1. What are you using your camera(s) for, and how? 2. Do you already have any lenses for it? 3. What is the nature of your need? 4. What kind of income do you have? If the answer to #2 is; Yes, 2 or more; and the answer to #4 is "upper middle class, no kids in private school/college, no dependents with illness (any age)" or "wealthy", then unqualified yes, whatever the answers to #'s 1 and 3. If the answers to # 2 is "no", and #4 is "just middle class", then I'd say you need to answer #3 as "compelling professional/artistic need", and #1 as " a use that requires the best possible IQ/DR/ISO combination, and/or file malleability, and/or ruggedness, and/or large printing, and/or ability to use in any conditions/time of day/locations, or combinations thereof". This is how I made my calculations, and how I made the very, very happy decision to get a Z, and a bunch of lenses as well. And, btw, a K1 as backup. Interesting evaluation. Do you think the 645Z is a clear advantage over the K1 like a full frame is over an APS-C?

07-29-2018, 04:02 PM	#11
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by alvaro_garcia Interesting evaluation. Do you think the 645Z is a clear advantage over the K1 like a full frame is over an APS-C? Good question....and I think it depends on the FF camera in question. Between the A7RIII or a D850? mmmm, maybe not as much, but I'd still go with the Z for my purposes. I'd say if you were a super-expert, then maybe not at all. But I need files that are forgiving with respect to my incompetence, and so the Z wins. I'm also shooting a lot of stuff where I only get one shot at it, so again the Z is safer. Between the K1 and the Z? In certain ways, yes, although pixel-shift levels the playing field more (when it can be used...). For me, the Z is just so damned easy to use. You can royally $%&# up and still get usable (and better) files. There's something about them that means they're easier to deal with in post. I feel like they are softer, like a good, carveable wood, and the FF files are more brittle, like dry, hard wood that can chip. But as you can see, we start to get into feelings here, and grey areas. Which is why I laid my evaluation out as I did. I shot my Z alongside my A7R until I got my K1, and now shoot my K1 alongside my Z. But the Z blows everything Canon has out of the water AFAIC. I use Canons at work when I have to (I'd rather lug my own gear in, most times, unless it's for video).

07-29-2018, 05:23 PM	#12
jadeyphoto New Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: NYC Posts: 23	I love my 645Z and lenses but it's VERY irksome there has been no news or leak regarding the 645z replacement, nor is there any news about a professional program. I want to stay with Pentax but their communication and pace of development need to improve or they won't attract new system users and the existing ones will eventually bail as competitors continue to innovate with both equipment and services. Originally posted by texandrews Who knows? Pentax could do with a bit more leaky-ness like Fuji. The silent treatment to the faithful just gives nervous types agita, and then they are all over the forums everywhere. Bad for biz. BUY. THE. Z! Yes, I was shouting!

07-30-2018, 07:42 AM	#13
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by jadeyphoto I love my 645Z and lenses but it's VERY irksome there has been no news or leak regarding the 645z replacement, Well, I think maybe the irksome bit has to do with you. I wouldn't expect much of a rapid upgrade cycle to a camera of this nature. And Pentax is soooo tight lipped, which as I said I think hurts them. Also, they've got to be taxed as a small company, trying to develop along as many lines as they've got---more than any other! What I would love to see would be a board sawp style upgrade like the one being done currently with the K1. Quote: nor is there any news about a professional program. Ah, now that is an excellent point, and one that could go a long way to settling some nerves, and is in fact necessary. Quote: I want to stay with Pentax but their communication and pace of development need to improve or they won't attract new system users and the existing ones will eventually bail as competitors continue to innovate with both equipment and services. I won't bail. No other system is as affordable as this one, and besides, it pretty much does everything I need professionally. Artistically I could use more, but that's not really a major problem. There's stitching and stacking I could do with my artwork. Even my pro work.

08-03-2018, 10:27 PM	#14
loveisageless Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Oakland, California Photos: Albums Posts: 1,250	Don't know if it means anything, but I have been watching the used prices for 645Zs at Adorama and they just dropped the price $500 to $4099.99 on a used 645Z in "Demo" condition and $400 on one in "excellent plus" condition. The latter is now in the sub $4000 price range. Pretty big price drop pretty suddenly...

08-04-2018, 07:35 AM	#15
BrunoL New Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 20	I make a distinction between the camera and the company. Since purchasing my Z in Aug. 2014, I have been extremely happy with it, so much so that I invested in the system and bought the 28-45mm and 90mm lenses. Outstanding performers. Nothing else to say. I love that camera and those two lenses in particular. BUT the company itself leaves a great deal to be desired beyond its tight-lipped approach. My biggest gripe is that they have failed to deliver on their lens roadmap. Over the last 4 years, we have seen a revamped 35mm. That's it. Does the company believe in the system and respect those who have bought into the system considering their repeated failures to communicate what the future holds in terms of new bodies, lenses, etc.? My take is that we aren't going to see a new "Z" any time soon (or new lenses for that matter), and that the recent drop in price is due to the new kids on the block (GFX, X1D) and their new lenses.