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09-26-2018, 12:12 AM   #1
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100mp 44x33mm Medium Format Sensor

So, now that Fuji has announced that they are going to release a new 100MP sensor based mirrorless camera, where does that leave Pentax on the playing field?

We are now running over the 4 year release cycle for Pentax with the 645Z, with both the body and lenses (at least the FA ones) looking a bit old and somewhat lacking in some critical features.

Where do we see things heading for Pentax?

09-26-2018, 12:16 AM   #2
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Fuji said it themselves: the 100MP sensor needs to be stabilized to make a difference. So I'd guess we'll see a 645 model with just that, plus the K-1's UI.

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09-26-2018, 02:04 AM - 5 Likes   #3
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In my humble opinion a 50Mpx sensor but with the MF full frame size, maybe with Pixel Shift, has more sense than a small 100Mpx sensor that needs IBIS
09-26-2018, 04:37 AM   #4
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Pentax should release more and more things to make us happy:
-The K-3 successor
-FF lenses
-645Z successor (I think with FF645 100MP sensor, stabilized and with pixel shift)
-Image Sync update (the 2.0 does not connect to my KP, waiting for the fix)
-The DA* 11-18
-K-1II firmware update with KP features like the shutter speed limit in auto iso
-Weather seald FA645 lenses
-Tilt/Shift wide angle lens
-FF 1.4x or 1.5x teleconverter
-Completly new DA*16-50 and DA*50-135 with new AF motor
(and a FF MILC body of course )

09-26-2018, 05:34 AM   #5
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I believe Fuji is using the IMX211 in the 100mp camera. Pentax would have to scale up the mirror shutter pentaprism in order to use that sensor. Or does sony have a crop mf 100mp sensor as well? I would rather have more area than just more pixels.

09-26-2018, 05:46 AM   #6
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No, it's the 44x33mm IMX461 BI (back illuminated).

The 54x41mm IMX211 FI (front illuminated) is only available in the Phase One IQ3 100 (Tr.) and in the Hasselblad H6D.

Greeting Gerd
09-26-2018, 06:27 AM   #7
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That would make it easier for Pentax to implement, but they would still have to skip a generation of image processing chip to make it competitive with the Fuji. A mirrorless larger sensor system would interest me more (if I could afford it )
09-26-2018, 03:45 PM - 1 Like   #8
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Who out there can really use more than the 51MP in the Z? Doesn't it make some large prints already? It reminds of the quest for size in the film days, where people were not happy with a 6x7 and felt the need for 4x5, 5x7 and 8X10. All the while, the 6x7 could easily be used for all sorts of pro work.

09-26-2018, 05:17 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by desertscape Quote
Who out there can really use more than the 51MP in the Z?
At the risk of sounding only slightly cynical, I can think of three people who can: Someone who must, absolutely must, own bragging rights, a marketer, and someone who wants to crop like heck. If I can think of others, I'll add to the list. If Fuji can find a 100 mp sensor, wouldn't Pentax be able to find one also? And, what about lenses?
09-26-2018, 11:43 PM   #10
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Last week I witnessed the Hassy 100MP sensor in action...the corner to corner image quality was absolutely astounding, and considering the conditions we were in, the dynamic range and detail recorded astonishing.....(although I have to admit there was a Rodenstock 'digital' w/a lens in front of it on a technical camera). But, so far, I have found no circumstances where the 645Z image quality is inadequate, and can print 36" x 24" with ease. Perhaps more surprisingly, I have also found recently that I can print that size from the files on my Fuji XT20 travel camera (admittedly with up-sampling in PS), with no reduction in the amount of perceivable detail. It seems we are entering the phase of 'evolutionary' improvement with each step-up in sensor resolution, and although that is one key factor, the main 'revolutionary' thrust seems to be towards mirrorless, which may inevitably be accompanied by improvements in sensor technology?
09-27-2018, 11:57 AM - 2 Likes   #11
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I think Ricoh marketing would have to ask themselves these questions:

  • If a 100 Mp 645ZII allows 40% more horizontal and 40% more vertical pixels than a 645Z, allowing 40% larger dimensioned prints, are there enough potential purchasers who would actually print at that size to justify the camera's development cost and who would pay the increased price to be able to do so?
  • Will the progression of video monitors and TVs within the lifetime of this camera be expected to get anywhere near 100 Mp (10860 x 6110 pixels might be called a 10k TV) where this resolution would be justified to display the higher-resolution images?
(I'm ignoring here the effects on effective resolution of color-masked pixels and the processing thereof.)

Data at hand suggests that in observing a display or print subtending a 15-degree angle, the best the eye can resolve (30 arc seconds) is about 1800 pixels in each dimension; better spatial resolution requires closer inspection. This hints, in my opinion, that the artistic aspects of photography (that depend on the photograph taken as a whole composition) would not require higher resolution than we presently have, and that a 100 Mp camera would be best suited for documentation photos where details of a large landscape or architecture need to be resolvable. This might limit take-up by a significant fraction of the market.

I also wonder which of the exiting 645 and 67 lenses would meet the challenge of the suggested candidate 100 Mp focal plane.
09-27-2018, 01:42 PM - 2 Likes   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by kaseki Quote
would not require higher resolution than we presently have, and that a 100 Mp camera would be best suited for documentation photos where details of a large landscape or architecture need to be resolvable. This might limit take-up by a significant fraction of the market.
This is the reason why so few 8x10 cameras were/are used. Only a small niche of shooters has a utilitarian need for such a specialized camera. The enlargement potential is huge but the shooters that requires those sizes are few.

The limitation in photographic excellence is not the cameras in most cases, it is the shooter.
09-27-2018, 03:37 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by desertscape Quote

The limitation in photographic excellence is not the cameras in most cases, it is the shooter.
Absolutely true.
09-27-2018, 05:32 PM - 1 Like   #14
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rather than a 100mp camera, I would like to see a revamp of the Z with a deeper buffer, more AF points and a faster AF system. And where is all the new glass?
09-28-2018, 07:23 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by kaseki Quote
I think Ricoh marketing would have to ask themselves these questions:

  • If a 100 Mp 645ZII allows 40% more horizontal and 40% more vertical pixels than a 645Z, allowing 40% larger dimensioned prints, are there enough potential purchasers who would actually print at that size to justify the camera's development cost and who would pay the increased price to be able to do so?
  • Will the progression of video monitors and TVs within the lifetime of this camera be expected to get anywhere near 100 Mp (10860 x 6110 pixels might be called a 10k TV) where this resolution would be justified to display the higher-resolution images?
(I'm ignoring here the effects on effective resolution of color-masked pixels and the processing thereof.)

Data at hand suggests that in observing a display or print subtending a 15-degree angle, the best the eye can resolve (30 arc seconds) is about 1800 pixels in each dimension; better spatial resolution requires closer inspection. This hints, in my opinion, that the artistic aspects of photography (that depend on the photograph taken as a whole composition) would not require higher resolution than we presently have, and that a 100 Mp camera would be best suited for documentation photos where details of a large landscape or architecture need to be resolvable. This might limit take-up by a significant fraction of the market.

I also wonder which of the exiting 645 and 67 lenses would meet the challenge of the suggested candidate 100 Mp focal plane.
I am agreeing with this in the main. There are other improvements to the Z I'd like to see before this one----even though I am in that pretty tiny subset of people who would be using a 100mp camera for documentation purposes. But I could live without 100 mp if I got PS instead---and based on my usage I think such a camera would be more versatile.
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