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10-01-2018, 09:11 AM   #1
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Authenticity of Pentax 67.

Greet to all P67 users.

This is my first thread post at this forum, forgive me if I made any formation/title/etc mistake.

I have some question about the version,performance and durability of all the Pentax 67s. Hopes the professionals here would advice before I spend my bucks.
As what I've read, there's total 4 version of P67, ex:
- P 6x7, P 6x7 MLU, P 67 and the P 67ii.
--(1)-- Is the P67 has 2 version in the history? Based on their production date, device durability are vary by their produce batch. Some said earlier batch of P67 are no different with late model of P 6x7 but late model of P67 does.
--(2)-- Also, some said that only the P67 with serial number 413xxx onward makes different comparing with others.
( 67 & 67ii Serial Numbers List | Photo.net Photography Forums ). Is it true ?
--(3)-- I've read a thread that someone mention only the P67 with S/N 4159xxx & 42xxxx are the AUTHENTIC P67, others are might 6x7 but replaced with P67 top instead. Thought ?

I just wanted to make sure that device I purchased could company me for a really really long period without causing a lot issues.As I don't always change new gear. A camera that could company for a long time are my concern.
Your professional advice are highly appreciate. Sincerely thanks from my purse and me myself.

[UPDATE] I found a seller who claim that he is selling the 3rd gen P67. With serial number 408xxxx, eyes piece serial number are 614xxx. But one of the user says it might be a fake P67.Attached photo are advice from P67 users in facebook .

Attached image with device I found online.

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Your advice are highly highly appreciate!

Attached Images
       
10-01-2018, 03:39 PM   #2
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Some Pentax 6x7 (1969 onward) or later Pentax 67 (1989 onward) bodies may have been repaired with parts taken from other cameras, such as the top plate, winding lever, TTL or non-TTL prism, power on/off button, mirror lock-up lever (silver instead of black)...

The camera shown here is ordinary and unremarkable in its presentation as a Pentax 67, and is not a fake! It is the mirror lock-up version, and that is undeniably useful. The TTL meter prism is the modern, updated one that came after the ASAHI PENTAX-badged prism. The two (old and new) are interchangeable.

I need to ask you, in what way, beside quoting a serial number and the reams of incoherent discourse on the subject included in your post, do you consider the camera shown to be fake or suspect? To you, as a new user, it could probably be anything under the sun! To me, it is what I use every day and it does not look like anything else.

Having got that small matter out of the way, other things:

Reliability going forward may be an issue. The 1969-vintage cameras are now very old (the one pictured here looks to be from 1990) and are the usual suspects for things to go wrong. In any case, the camera can and probably will break down at some point indeterminate, because of age and likely heavy professional use many years ago. Occasional failure points are the winding mechanism (slipped, overlapping or incomplete frames), sticky mirror solenoid, aperture coupling chain, derangement of shutter speeds (store the camera with the shutter speed dial on B when not in use) and battery compartment corrosion. Foam seals on the underside of the TTL or non-TTL prism will require replacement at some time. This is a tedious and grotty job. Failure to replace the foam seal can result in very easy dislodgement of the prism, sending it crashing to the ground. Once the seals are replaced, the fit will be tighter and thus more secure and more effective at sealing out dust.

The Pentax 67II is an updated/modernised electronic version of the earlier cameras and was released concurrently with a revised set of lenses (designated SMC Pentax 67). These replaced the earlier, older Takumar and Pentax 6x7 lenses with improved optical and handling characteristics. Some of thes lenses are very expensive, even now -- a reflection in their optical performance, when used competently.

Your attention is also drawn to a much more important point: the correct way to remove and replace the TTL meter prism in this camera:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/372920-link-sticky-pentax-6x7-67-all-variants-meter-coupling-chain.html

A broken meter coupling chain will hobble the camera and result in you having to use stop-down metering until the camera can be repaired (which is best left to somebody like Eric at pentaxs.com, who services these cameras).

Spare parts are not available for any of these cameras because of their age; parts, when required, are taken from like-cameras for repair, and this introduces continued questions of reliability long-term, but you should still get many years of service from a well looked after camera (but it is not guaranteed without knowing the camera's history -- how it was used). The same though cannot be guaranteed from a heavily used or abused camera, so as always, Buyer Beware. A camera may be described as "mint" but it is not underneath, in the mechanics, probably having exposed thousands of rolls, even if it was babied and looked after. I am irritated by persistent descriptions of mint or near-mint in eBay listings of these cameras: they are far from mint and the term is more often than not used to encourage consideration of the item ahead of others, but it is a herd mentality!

Last edited by Silent Street; 10-01-2018 at 03:46 PM.
10-02-2018, 03:44 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Silent Street Quote
Some Pentax 6x7 (1969 onward) or later Pentax 67 (1989 onward) bodies may have been repaired with parts taken from other cameras, such as the top plate, winding lever, TTL or non-TTL prism, power on/off button, mirror lock-up lever (silver instead of black)...

The camera shown here is ordinary and unremarkable in its presentation as a Pentax 67, and is not a fake! It is the mirror lock-up version, and that is undeniably useful. The TTL meter prism is the modern, updated one that came after the ASAHI PENTAX-badged prism. The two (old and new) are interchangeable.

I need to ask you, in what way, beside quoting a serial number and the reams of incoherent discourse on the subject included in your post, do you consider the camera shown to be fake or suspect? To you, as a new user, it could probably be anything under the sun! To me, it is what I use every day and it does not look like anything else.

Having got that small matter out of the way, other things:

Reliability going forward may be an issue. The 1969-vintage cameras are now very old (the one pictured here looks to be from 1990) and are the usual suspects for things to go wrong. In any case, the camera can and probably will break down at some point indeterminate, because of age and likely heavy professional use many years ago. Occasional failure points are the winding mechanism (slipped, overlapping or incomplete frames), sticky mirror solenoid, aperture coupling chain, derangement of shutter speeds (store the camera with the shutter speed dial on B when not in use) and battery compartment corrosion. Foam seals on the underside of the TTL or non-TTL prism will require replacement at some time. This is a tedious and grotty job. Failure to replace the foam seal can result in very easy dislodgement of the prism, sending it crashing to the ground. Once the seals are replaced, the fit will be tighter and thus more secure and more effective at sealing out dust.

The Pentax 67II is an updated/modernised electronic version of the earlier cameras and was released concurrently with a revised set of lenses (designated SMC Pentax 67). These replaced the earlier, older Takumar and Pentax 6x7 lenses with improved optical and handling characteristics. Some of thes lenses are very expensive, even now -- a reflection in their optical performance, when used competently.

Your attention is also drawn to a much more important point: the correct way to remove and replace the TTL meter prism in this camera:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/372920-link-sticky-pentax-6x7-67-all-variants-meter-coupling-chain.html

A broken meter coupling chain will hobble the camera and result in you having to use stop-down metering until the camera can be repaired (which is best left to somebody like Eric at pentaxs.com, who services these cameras).

Spare parts are not available for any of these cameras because of their age; parts, when required, are taken from like-cameras for repair, and this introduces continued questions of reliability long-term, but you should still get many years of service from a well looked after camera (but it is not guaranteed without knowing the camera's history -- how it was used). The same though cannot be guaranteed from a heavily used or abused camera, so as always, Buyer Beware. A camera may be described as "mint" but it is not underneath, in the mechanics, probably having exposed thousands of rolls, even if it was babied and looked after. I am irritated by persistent descriptions of mint or near-mint in eBay listings of these cameras: they are far from mint and the term is more often than not used to encourage consideration of the item ahead of others, but it is a herd mentality!
Hi there,

"Some Pentax 6x7 (1969 onward) or later Pentax 67 (1989 onward) bodies may have been repaired with parts taken from other cameras, such as the top plate, winding lever, TTL or non-TTL prism, power on/off button, mirror lock-up lever (silver instead of black)..."

- Yes this is what I meant.. I've read that this could be happened. Cases like the body might be P6x7 MLU but with P67 top cover. So buyer might paying for higher price but get an older version of it. And someone warn that the only way to justify your device, is the serial number.

"The camera shown here is ordinary and unremarkable in its presentation as a Pentax 67, and is not a fake! It is the mirror lock-up version, and that is undeniably useful. The TTL meter prism is the modern, updated one that came after the ASAHI PENTAX-badged prism. The two (old and new) are interchangeable."

- Just like the user from facebook told me, "It appears to be a legitimate 67 version with MLU. It should not have a serial number smaller than 4155xxx.". I did not mean this is fake, but just the serial number got me confused. And thanks for the tips for justify the prism!

And thanks for pointing out those information, the reason why I did not consider about P67ii is the price and also some common issues occurs on it. Somes called it the fragile as well.

Truly appreciate if you could point out the serial number issues. I really wanted to buy this but OCD does really struggle me a lot before purchasing.
10-04-2018, 05:17 PM - 1 Like   #4
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Join Date: Sep 2017
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Just get one and send it to Eric for a full CLA (and foam replacement if it needs it). Things will run smoothly and if there's a small problem inside, you can get it fixed before putting the camera to good use.
I love mine. It was my old man's and it's very special to me. Never had any problems with it and it's an older 6x7 MLU.
Definitely get the MLU. And get some original silver oxide batteries.
Don't put too much thought into it, go out and shoot and enjoy it.



10-05-2018, 07:15 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by torashi Quote
Just get one and send it to Eric for a full CLA (and foam replacement if it needs it). Things will run smoothly and if there's a small problem inside, you can get it fixed before putting the camera to good use.
I love mine. It was my old man's and it's very special to me. Never had any problems with it and it's an older 6x7 MLU.
Definitely get the MLU. And get some original silver oxide batteries.
Don't put too much thought into it, go out and shoot and enjoy it.
+1 It looks like a P67, with cameras this old who knows what serial number ranges mean, most of the knowledge will have long been forgotten or lost. There's so little difference between a 6x7Mlu & 67 (either in the cameras or their values), condition of the actual camera is far more important. The best way to buy one is from a dealer (preferably one you can visit) but if not one with a good returns/warranty. If you find one on-line, factor in the costs for a possible service sometime down the line if it needs it.

Last edited by johnha; 10-05-2018 at 07:17 AM. Reason: Clarification
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