[rdenney]

I’m frustrated with DxO Photolab—it is failing on many images for unknown reasons, probably to do with computer memory or whatever. I’m tired of software that expects my computer to be like the development platform in ways they can’t explain. Half my photos have little red exclamation points and the software won’t export those files, or show a preview of the edits in the sidecar files. And if the raw file is tagged for sRGB (which I had set so that JPGs would be in that color space), Photolab will process to sRGB automatically without the option.

I’m frustrated with Affinity—it prints poorly, and won’t use a color-managed monitor that isn’t the primary display. C’mon—the big boys figured that bit out long ago. My decade-old version of Photoshop is more advanced.

I’m frustrated with Photo Shop CS 5.1—the version I own. It won’t read PEF files, and it’s storage is just too disk-hungry. But I’ve become resistant to Adobe products because of their rent-seeking business model.

Maybe Lightroom is the missing link, but I have never used it, and as I said I abhor the subscription model.

I’m frustrated with the Pentax software. It works better than any of the above as a raw processor but lacks any useful editing features. And it’s slow. And it turns a 70MB raw file into a 300MB TIF. No DNG output option. (Yes, it was a mistake to use PEF for my Alaska trip.) But at least it let me change the color space parameter to Adobe1998 before processing.

So, what software products are people using for their 645z files?

Capture 1 with the Exif edit? That doesn’t seem sustainable. SilkyPix full version, which at least can speak native Pentax? Suck-it-up Lightroom?

Rick “installing a newer video driver in hopes that will help” Denney

[twilhelm]

Rick, what do you have for a computer system? It can make a difference in some of the answers you get.

I used Adobe for years, Bridge - Lightroom - Photoshop if needed. But I will NOT do monthly subscription, let me purchase my products outright.

So I started to make a change to Rawtherapee and Darktable. I've also worked my way away from Windows as I'm tired of being shut down every few days for an unknown amount of time while it updates, and if I refuse the updates, I get problems. So I'm now running Linux OS, which uses much less of my computer leaving more power for the processing.

Both of the programs I've listed are free and have Windows versions if you wish to try them out.

[jatrax]

Have you tried the Adobe DNG converter? Run your PEF files through it to get DNG. Just a thought.

Digital Negative (DNG), Adobe DNG Converter | Adobe Photoshop CC

[2351HD]

You do realize you can set the camera to save raw files as DNG or PEF. Perhaps just use DNG then pick up a single version of the old Lightroom that works with the Z. You can then create a Colorchecker profile for Lightroom and you are done.

This is exactly what I have done, except I use the subscription version of LR and PS for work and play.

[runswithsizzers]

Why would that camera require anything different in a photo editor vs. any other camera?

If you are not happy with the Lightroom competitors, maybe it's time to try the real thing? Say what you want about the Lightroom subscription model, but it's always up-to-date, and it's still the one all the others are compared to. I have been spending a LOT of time in Lightroom + Photoshop (subscription) and I am still discovering new layers of effective tools to do what needs to be done.

In addition to Lightoom+Photoshop's editing capabilities, consider the vast ecosystem of tutorials, plug-ins, and pre-sets, and it's a pretty good work environment. If you can afford to shoot a Pentax 645z, you can afford a Lightroom subscription.

Yeah, I know, "It's not the money, but the principle..."

I am not thrilled to be paying Adobe every month, either - but the same is true about paying for my cell phone and internet service. It's just part of the cost of getting out of bed every morning. The only alternative being to get off the grid, move into a school bus parked out in the woods, and eating nothing that doesn't come out of my garden or chicken coop.

That said, I assume you have put in the considerable amount of time which is needed to learn any capable editing software before deciding you don't like it? For me, it would be pointless to jump around from editor to editor after trying each one for only a few days, because it takes me months (if not years) to really learn how to use these powerful tools.

[rdenney]

Look, guys, it's not just paying Adobe every month. It's enduring their enforced half-gig upgrades (I'm on the end of two tin cans and a string, and dammit I should be able to determine how much a provider uses up my data, which I pay for by the gigabyte). And it's the inexorable move to requiring all images to be stored in a cloud server, which is a fail for me on all counts. Each 645z TIFF is 300 megabytes--you think I want that going over those two tin cans and a string? Ever? You guys who live in cities with fiber-optic connections need to understand that it's not that way everywhere.

I spent 20 years learning Photoshop, so, yes, I've put in a considerable amount of time. But when DxO Photolab, which I otherwise rather like, displays a red exclamation point in the image, with the statement "unknown processing error", and no help from anything in their literature or forum, it's rather hard for my experience to be at issue, don't you think?

The Affinity support guys tried but could not see the difference in the prints I made, despite that i sent them scans of the prints where the differences glowed in the dark. And it's not a matter of my expereince when I discover that their software can only color-manage on the primary display (I use the secondary display for image editing so that programs can run on the primary display), and it gets that wrong by about 30cc magenta, too. I've been using a hardware-based color management system on quality monitors for decades. The current one is an XRite i1 Pro. Apparently, they have not.

The Pentax software handled the files the best of the lot, but it lacks much editing or batch processing capability. And it's slow. I was hoping somebody had used SilkyPix full version. it's a little expensive to try.

I have never used Lightroom, simply because I'm not a production photographer, and I tend to work on images one at a time. When you spend an hour scanning a negative, you don't optimize your workflow around processing a thousand of those at a whack. And the work I do on my Canon DSLR hasn't required anything more than Bridge, but then my version of Photoshop reads those files.

I just want to know what people are using, please. In case I'm missing something out there.

Rick "post-operative and grumpy, because stymied again on work through these Alaska photos, and needing to put a book together, not troubleshoot software that doesn't do what it says it does" Denney

---------- Post added 10-06-18 at 12:29 AM ----------

Have you tried the Adobe DNG converter? Run your PEF files through it to get DNG. Just a thought.

Digital Negative (DNG), Adobe DNG Converter | Adobe Photoshop CC

Thank you--I will look into that. Downloading now. This could be a link in a chain, at least.

Rick "unaware of this free option before now" Denney

---------- Post added 10-06-18 at 12:39 AM ----------

Rick, what do you have for a computer system? It can make a difference in some of the answers you get.

I used up my tolerance for extended command lines about 30 years ago, heh. I have a couple of embedded systems with Linux, but frankly photography is my hobby, and computers are more like work that I don't do any more.

But it's true that my computer system is not the latest and greatest. But it meets all the requirements for the software mentioned in my first post, and it was reasonably current when the 645z came out. And I have used it for processing large-format film scans that required PhotoShop's large file format (psb instead of psd). 1.5 gigabytes in one case.

It started life as an HP, with an AMD four-core Phenom processor, 16G of RAM, and a 64GB SSD for caching. Windows 7. Again, not the latest stuff but still pretty capable and not really out of date even when the 645z came out.

Replacing it is a last resort--replacing a computer is like recovering from a fire or a flood. It takes me months to get everything working again.

Extracting DNG Converter now.

Rick "who set the cache size in Photolab to be 20 GB--plenty for 300MB images" Denney

[2351HD]

Just to correct you, you’re wrong on the LR front. Lightroom Classic CC subscription keeps all your files on your local PC, not on the cloud.

I use it and it’s lovely, so no stress. You can get it for about $9 US per month I think, about the price of 2 cups of coffee.

[rdenney]

You've some misconceptions. First, I've been getting DNG out of my K bodies since 2007. Why convert? Zero issues with ACR. Across 5 models. Second, I shoot dance & events besides portraits so I shoot a lot, easily 60K a year. That doesn't go to the cloud. I'm pretty ruthless with editing but still have 7 TB in workstation now 2 sets of external backup drives. One set goes to bank safety deposit box ( $20 year), rotate quarterly. So while I have good bandwidth, all I upload are JPEGS to Drop Box and Photoshelter for clients. I could live with the tin cans and string. 6TB desktop USB3 drives are around $110. Why would anyone pump that out to a cloud service?

Last, $10 a month for the CC subscription ain't much. And all it does is phone home once in awhile and to see your still current on subscription. Never cared for Lightroom much so I don't use it but I could cancel CC tomorrow and all my DNGs would work just fine on my versions of CS3, CS5 or CS6. Or ON1, no subscription there. I've found the CC updates a lot less painful and trouble free than the CS 3 to CS to CS6 upgrades.

I said I mistakenly stored images in PEF format. I wish I had stored them as DNG. So, you're right--I had a misconception that was recognized before now, and acknowledged in the OP. But thanks.

Adobe isn't requiring cloud storage now, but it's in their roadmap. They also promised that Lightroom would never go subscription, but here it is.

As I said, I'm not a production photographer. I only have 2 TB in the workstation and a 20-TB network-attached backup server (which runs Linux, by the way--ha!), but I may go days without internet access. I just don't trust Adobe's future plans and they have already proven their desire to seek rent for what was once purchasable. No, it's not the $10 a month. I only paid DirecTV $25 a month in 1996 when I first bought their service, but the same programming is now $135 a month. There isn't much incentive for Adobe to keep their prices down. In any case, I wish to explore alternatives.

Rick "thank you" Denney

---------- Post added 10-06-18 at 01:13 AM ----------

So, I realize that many use Lightroom. Thank you. Duly noted.

Rick "now happily converting all the PEF's to DNG's using the raw converter from Adobe--a most worthwhile free download" Denney

[KiloHotelphoto]

Like others have said buy a older version of Lightroom if you don't want to pay the $120 a year subscription for CC.

You're using a $5500 body and who knows how much you have in lenses for it. Spend the money to be able to get the most out of it in post processing.

You obviously have a passion for photography or you wouldn't be using such expensive equipment, a computer and software are no different than tripods and lighting, you need them today.

[moroccanimager]

For localised editing using layers and advanced features, C1. I believe Cfix works well every time in converting.

[rdenney]

For localised editing using layers and advanced features, C1. I believe Cfix works well every time in converting.

That you—I’m aware of that option. I had not wanted to depend on such a tenuous feature, but I hear that Phase One is accepting files from Fuji cameras, so I’m hopeful that Ricoh will make a similar deal or that Phase One will stop thinking so narrowly.

Rick “willing to pursue this one further” Denney

---------- Post added 10-06-18 at 09:43 AM ----------

Like others have said buy a older version of Lightroom if you don't want to pay the $120 a year subscription for CC.

You're using a $5500 body and who knows how much you have in lenses for it. Spend the money to be able to get the most out of it in post processing.

You obviously have a passion for photography or you wouldn't be using such expensive equipment, a computer and software are no different than tripods and lighting, you need them today.

To be sure, I wasn’t getting the notion of buying an older version of Lightroom to go with my older version of Photoshop. That is something I will look into as well.

My computer system may be a bit older, but it is still highly (and expensively) optimized for photo work (including the ability to run Nikon scanners with a FireWire interface, full color management, etc.) For me, the time is a bigger issue. Configuring a replacement computer that would retain current capabilities would be a big, big job, and my least favorite part of photography. I know I’ll have to do it eventually, but I want to work through these Alaska photos first. That project is my priority with what little time I have for photography right now.

Rick “the longer that takes, the greater the risk I never get it done” Denney

[Roadboat24]

Might give Darktable a try.

[Fcsnt54]

After ditching the adobe products for a year now, i decided to give lightroom and photoshop a try. I was thinking maybe the program improved, but i can now officially say i hated the experience with photoshop and lightroom, and dont care to go back. What product did i replace it with?

ON1....

I will admit it is not perfect. I have done plenty of tests and it loves pentax 645z DNG files, what it doesnt like is when there is clipping on the right side of the .PEF raw files. So pressuming you can convert you should be fine there.

Items i like with the program

Easy to use
Is not a subscription base
The film simulations are great
It has layers and non destructive
Local adjustments which are nice
Able to switch between develop and layers modules for fine tuning the photos
It is awesome for setting up photos for printing
I generally get good results
Price is right
I like the layout
Has distortion/perspection control
Easy to go through photos to reate
Syncing photos is convenient
Panoramas are decent and easy, and generally does a decent job.


What i dont like about the program

Doesnt behave well with clipped .pef files
Although it works the sharpening and noise sliders could be better
If in a rush can be a little slow
I find if you sync photos the synced photos are off for some reason. If you go photo by photo with the same setting they tend to turn out better
Panoramas... it goes in this column as well cause although it does a good job, it needs improvements between better control in alignment and for when it changes modules it sometimes doesnt align exactly how it shows you in preview.

Thats the program in a nutshell, any things you want me to elaborate i can. I wish capture 1 would work with the z files without jumping through hoops, the program works great with the gfx and could only imagine how it would be with the z.

[lsimpkins]

Why would that camera require anything different in a photo editor vs. any other camera?

File size from that 51MP sensor might have something to do with the performance of the OP's computer with a given software product. Other packages might use and manage computer resources better.

[kaseki]

Might give Darktable a try.

As a raw neophyte Darktable user experimenter, my initial experiment with 645Z output was that Darktable could work (to the limited extent that I could figure it out) with a jpeg formatted image, but while it could read the PEF formatted counterpart image, it wouldn't even display the white brightness distribution curve -- claiming that it didn't have some Pentax data it needed. [bit rusty right now on the details] Because I was using an older version of Linux Mint and hence an older version of Darktable that would run on it, I thought it appropriate that I have an up-to-date environment before blaming Darktable, so I haven't pursued post processing further pending finding the time for a software upgrade. (Yes, rdenney, even with the ease of installing modern Linux flavors, recovering one's entire environment after a new build becomes a near perpetual work in progress and memory challenge).