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11-04-2018, 08:08 PM - 1 Like   #16
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The Manual /Auto switch does 2 things. It is a depth of field preview switch and useful when using a device between the lens and body ( like the Helicoid ext tube) that breaks the connection between the diaphragm and meter. When you use a Helicoid tube as an example, the electrical connection is lost between the lens and meter, so that the meter does not know what aperture you are set at. So to meter, the lens must be set to manual so that you can get an accurate meter reading. Auto means that the TTL can detect what aperture you have selected without the diaphragm actually being stopped down to that f stop. This is also know as wide open metering.

Almost no one has a new 6x7 kit these days so you should cherish what you have.

11-05-2018, 03:04 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by desertscape Quote
The Manual /Auto switch does 2 things. It is a depth of field preview switch and useful when using a device between the lens and body ( like the Helicoid ext tube) that breaks the connection between the diaphragm and meter. When you use a Helicoid tube as an example, the electrical connection is lost between the lens and meter, so that the meter does not know what aperture you are set at. So to meter, the lens must be set to manual so that you can get an accurate meter reading. Auto means that the TTL can detect what aperture you have selected without the diaphragm actually being stopped down to that f stop. This is also know as wide open metering.

Almost no one has a new 6x7 kit these days so you should cherish what you have.
Looks like I need to read up on TTL metering.
I thought the only thing it did was:
- keep you from shooting with the cap in place!
- Only really mattered when using a flash that communicated with the camera where the aperture data is needed.
- Does the metering system use aperture data for non-flash? If it did it would seem the meter reading would change with a change in aperture which I never noticed before.

The best part of getting this camera is I will be learning a lot?
The spotmeter really has me wanting to spend some time experimenting with exposure to get the shadow highlights.

I took a quick look at the camera body and didn't see the serial number?
The in package batteries that came with it were dated 83-06 and 83-09.
Thank you for the information.
11-05-2018, 09:09 AM   #18
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The serial number is on the top plate, left side.
QuoteOriginally posted by nuke8401 Quote
- Does the metering system use aperture data for non-flash? If it did it would seem the meter reading would change with a change in aperture which I never noticed before.
When the lens is in the AUTO mode, the meter will read the aperture setting electrically and compensate for it, even though the lens is wide open. Moving the aperture ring will not physically move the diaphragm. In Manual mode all meter readings are based on the movement of the diaphragm and aperture ring. Some of the lenses only meter manually (there is not auto/manual switch) 400 Takumar etc.
11-05-2018, 10:10 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by nuke8401 Quote
I played with the Digital Spotmeter today after reading the manual.
I compared it to everything I had from a canon 50d, two Pentax Super MEs, Liecaflex SL, Canon A2E and the 67.
All were within 1/3 stop of the Spotmeter except the Leica was tracking +2/3 stop.
The 67 was -1/3 stop off.
You are assuming zero light loss going through the different lenses on your cameras when you compare the spot meter to them. It can be insignificant but just be aware.

11-05-2018, 10:41 AM   #20
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Desertscape and tuco,
You guys are really adding things to my "I need to study this more list!"
Thank you!
I should have started this endeavor much earlier in life! LOL
Thanks,
David
11-05-2018, 10:46 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by nuke8401 Quote
The best part of getting this camera is I will be learning a lot?
The spotmeter really has me wanting to spend some time experimenting with exposure to get the shadow highlights.
What type of film do you plan on shooting the most. Positives or Negatives? A one-degree spot meter works best with the zone system of metering I'd say.
11-05-2018, 11:12 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
What type of film do you plan on shooting the most. Positives or Negatives? A one-degree spot meter works best with the zone system of metering I'd say.
My 35mm past has been mostly Negative (Ektar/Portra) and my slide film limited until I recently started shooting some Velvia 50 and Provia 100.


What do I plan to shoot? Maybe starting off easy with Portra 400 and Tri-x because of the lens speed and wanting to shoot handheld.
For planned landscape I will likely go Ektar, Velvia and Tri-x.
I guess I am just all over the place aren't I.


Since I was lucky to get the Spotmeter, I am anxious to get some improvement in the dark areas of B&W.
I do have a soft spot for Ilford HP5.


Zone Metering-just started reading about it.
Makes sense but;
- I need a cheat sheet for different film exposure latitudes.
- If I were guessing: Color Neg -2 to +4, Color Pos -1 to + 1, B&W ?
- I send my film out for developing so I have little control over that step in the process.
11-05-2018, 11:51 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
What type of film do you plan on shooting the most. Positives or Negatives? A one-degree spot meter works best with the zone system of metering I'd say.


Yes.

My suggestion is find a copy of Ansel Adams’s The Negative and read it. The part about testing film and development isn’t as important for color film. But the critical part is understanding what subject brightness results in what tones on the film. This helps you to visualize the outcome of your exposure.

Modern cameras do matrix metering, where they divide the image into smaller areas, and try to find an exposure that keeps all the areas usable. But the 6x7 uses a cell that generally looks at the whole image, and the exposure it recommends will seek to integrate the image as a whole into middle gray. If the image is dominated by highlights or shadows, particularly if the important subject isn’t part of the dominant group, the result may blow out highlights (with transparency film) or lose shadows (with negative film). With a spot meter, you can evaluate the important highlights and shadows and place them onto the range of the film on purpose. It’s a different way of thinking about exposure.

After learning the zone system, I have a hard time thinking any other way when using film. When using digital cameras, I’m usually seduced by the ability to view the histogram. The zone system, in effect, seeks a histogram on film that doesn’t clip the highlights or shadows in ways you didn’t expect.

I have used the meter in my 67’s, but only for the right kind of scene—subject lit the same way as the dominant part of the field of view.

Finally, (to morph the old adage about watches and clocks)—a man with a meter knows what exposure to use. A man with two meters is never sure.

Rick “who has four spot meters—two Pentax Spot V’s, a Minolta Spot F, and a Sekonic L-488, that rarely exactly agree” Denney

11-05-2018, 11:55 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
Yes.

My suggestion is find a copy of Ansel Adams’s The Negative and read it.
I have that book and others like Beyond The Zone System and have read them, thank you. I've used densitometry to establish film speed and zone VIII placements in the past. I've been developing my own film for a long time.
11-05-2018, 12:02 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
Yes.

My suggestion is find a copy of Ansel Adams’s The Negative and read it. The part about testing film and development isn’t as important for color film. But the critical part is understanding what subject brightness results in what tones on the film. This helps you to visualize the outcome of your exposure.

Modern cameras do matrix metering, where they divide the image into smaller areas, and try to find an exposure that keeps all the areas usable. But the 6x7 uses a cell that generally looks at the whole image, and the exposure it recommends will seek to integrate the image as a whole into middle gray. If the image is dominated by highlights or shadows, particularly if the important subject isn’t part of the dominant group, the result may blow out highlights (with transparency film) or lose shadows (with negative film). With a spot meter, you can evaluate the important highlights and shadows and place them onto the range of the film on purpose. It’s a different way of thinking about exposure.

After learning the zone system, I have a hard time thinking any other way when using film. When using digital cameras, I’m usually seduced by the ability to view the histogram. The zone system, in effect, seeks a histogram on film that doesn’t clip the highlights or shadows in ways you didn’t expect.

I have used the meter in my 67’s, but only for the right kind of scene—subject lit the same way as the dominant part of the field of view.

Finally, (to morph the old adage about watches and clocks)—a man with a meter knows what exposure to use. A man with two meters is never sure.

Rick “who has four spot meters—two Pentax Spot V’s, a Minolta Spot F, and a Sekonic L-488, that rarely exactly agree” Denney
Not sure I'm going to live long enough to figure all (or even most) of this out!
I'm only 58!
Thanks,
11-05-2018, 12:02 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I have that book and others like Beyond The Zone System and have read them, thank you. I've used densitometry to establish film speed and zone VIII placements in the past. I've been developing my own film for a long time.


Sorry, Tuco, the suggestion was for the OP.

I know you know how to do it.

Rick “just expanding on your point” Denney

---------- Post added 11-05-18 at 03:04 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by nuke8401 Quote
Not sure I'm going to live long enough to figure all (or even most) of this out!
I'm only 58!
Thanks,

It’s easier than you think. If you’ve ever looked at a histogram, just imagine a process of predicting the histogram without actually being able to see it.

Rick “or, forget about it and send me the spotmeter so that I can have five ” Denney
11-05-2018, 12:23 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
Sorry, Tuco, the suggestion was for the OP.

Okay, gotcha. I see it now.
11-05-2018, 12:45 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
Sorry, Tuco, the suggestion was for the OP.

I know you know how to do it.

Rick “just expanding on your point” Denney

---------- Post added 11-05-18 at 03:04 PM ----------




It’s easier than you think. If you’ve ever looked at a histogram, just imagine a process of predicting the histogram without actually being able to see it.

Rick “or, forget about it and send me the spotmeter so that I can have five ” Denney
I already love the spotmeter and I haven't even used it yet!
11-05-2018, 03:26 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
Yes.

My suggestion is find a copy of Ansel Adams’s The Negative and read it. The part about testing film and development isn’t as important for color film. But the critical part is understanding what subject brightness results in what tones on the film. This helps you to visualize the outcome of your exposure.

Modern cameras do matrix metering, where they divide the image into smaller areas, and try to find an exposure that keeps all the areas usable. But the 6x7 uses a cell that generally looks at the whole image, and the exposure it recommends will seek to integrate the image as a whole into middle gray. If the image is dominated by highlights or shadows, particularly if the important subject isn’t part of the dominant group, the result may blow out highlights (with transparency film) or lose shadows (with negative film). With a spot meter, you can evaluate the important highlights and shadows and place them onto the range of the film on purpose. It’s a different way of thinking about exposure.

After learning the zone system, I have a hard time thinking any other way when using film. When using digital cameras, I’m usually seduced by the ability to view the histogram. The zone system, in effect, seeks a histogram on film that doesn’t clip the highlights or shadows in ways you didn’t expect.

I have used the meter in my 67’s, but only for the right kind of scene—subject lit the same way as the dominant part of the field of view.

Finally, (to morph the old adage about watches and clocks)—a man with a meter knows what exposure to use. A man with two meters is never sure.

Rick “who has four spot meters—two Pentax Spot V’s, a Minolta Spot F, and a Sekonic L-488, that rarely exactly agree” Denney
Just bought "The Negative" on Amazon Prime, $7, like new, hard copy.
Thanks,
David
11-05-2018, 04:29 PM   #30
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There is little point in perusing Zone System exposure and methodology if your film is sent to a lab for processing. Although it can be and is done for roll film, it is best and rewarding with sheet film, which was the original intention. For colour film I would forget about dreaming of being a Zonista for that from the start. Master spot metering as a priority. This ZS talk will only detract from the enjoyable experience of photographing with the 67, and at this time I think you have quite a learning curve ahead of you, both with the camera's rudimentary, 5-stop range TTL meter and more particularly, the intricacies of metering with a spot meter (1 degree I assume?).

Though dated and a bit dowdy (to say nothing of lousy print quality), The Negative is a good read (so is The Print), and contains a number of valid points of methodology regarding spot and multispot metering. AA didn't have today's multispot meters at his disposal and I reckon he would be impressed by their abilities and, in equal measure, appalled by the prices!

The TTL meter is capable, but simple and easily fooled in contrasty light. My own exposures are much longer than the 1 second afforded, so the meter (plus a Gossen Starlite 5 deg meter) are on my person everywhere I go.
There are some tricky parts. Any filter on the front other than SKY1B (light pink) or KR1.5 (light amber) will require filter factor compensation with the spot meter. A polariser (either linear or circular, doesn't matter with the P67) will require a first-set of referenceexposures at varying settings and lighting conditions and filter factors to establish baseline values of minimum and maximum figures e.g. hazy to bright light with a POL filter will usually (not not universally!) require a FF of +1.5. Flat/overcast/dull light will require +2.0 to +2.3. Red, yellow, green filters for B&W each have their own FF which must be added-in.

Guy Rhodes published a useful first-stop 'how-to' with spot/multispot metering which is worth a read (he is demonstrating multispot/mean-weighted average metering the use with a variant of the Sekonic L758D, but fundamentals of what to spot and where remain true):

Metering for Large Format Film – by Guy Rhodes | The Photo Brigade

It's good that Eric H has mentioned that the Pentax 6x7 / 67 has no lubricants to dry out. That should put to rest endless silly commentary on the internet about these cameras seizing up because "their danged lubes have dried up!".
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