Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-20-2018, 12:17 PM   #1
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2018
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 129
Pentax 67 vs Hasselblad 500cm reliability-wise

Hi all,

Iíve been a resident on the film SLR sub-forum for the past few months. It was only a matter of time before I visited this sub-forum Iím curious about going for a medium format setup in addition to my 35mm system.

Iíve seen some threads discuss Pentax vs Hasselblad. Iím aware of the square vs nonsquare and the form factor differences. Iím mostly interested to hear peopleís take on reliability. With the Pentax system Iíd worry about the need for a battery to operate the camera. This is only amplified by my recently CLAed ME just dying out of nowhere
What are peopleís experiences with the P67 in terms of long term reliability? And for those of you who own a Hassy please comment on that aspect if you can.

Many thanks for any input,
Ed

11-20-2018, 01:20 PM   #2
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
gofour3's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,294
Which version of the P6x7 are you looking at and are you going to use the TTL/AE meter prism or a hand held meter?

Phil.
11-20-2018, 01:33 PM   #3
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2018
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 129
Original Poster
Hey Phil,

I’d be looking at the second version (Pentax 67). I’m neutral about the TTL prism; I can work with my Sekonic just fine.
11-20-2018, 01:59 PM   #4
Pentaxian
Cipher's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 471
Both bodies are reliable workhorses, bear in mind that the Hasselblad lenses may need periodic attention to the leaf shutters for accurate exposures.
Don't turn the film advance roller backwards on the 67.


Either is probably 20+years old, bear that in mind, especially if they have been used heavily by professionals.

11-20-2018, 02:00 PM   #5
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
gofour3's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 6,294
QuoteOriginally posted by Ediz7531 Quote
Hey Phil,

I’d be looking at the second version (Pentax 67). I’m neutral about the TTL prism; I can work with my Sekonic just fine.
The P67 is a good body, with the only issue being the TTL metered prism. If you are using a handheld then you are fine and don't have to worry about the lens & TTL prism chain.

Just look for a good condition body and you should be ok. Light seals might need replacing, though.

These are great cameras and more reliable than the older 6x7 bodies, as they are much newer.

Phil.
11-20-2018, 03:47 PM   #6
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
johnha's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lancashire, UK
Photos: Albums
Posts: 779
They're really two different cameras with good & bad points, condition for both is the prime concern, they can both be reliable workhorses. My problem with the Hassie's was they're prone to jamming. Hassie fan's state it's user error that causes the jam - but many seem to carry a screwdriver to un-jam them, I didn't want the aggro of worrying about it so bought a Bronica SQ instead. The Pentax has an instant return mirror, the Hassle doesn't - if this is significant. The batteries for the P67 last a long time and are easy to find (probably a good idea to carry a spare though).

Apart from the meter chain mentioned above, I was told not to let the P67 film advance snap back after winding (guide it back with your thumb). The P67 is a fantastic camera, my only complaint is that I should have bought one much earlier.
11-20-2018, 04:18 PM   #7
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Alex645's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Kaneohe, HI
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,546
QuoteOriginally posted by Ediz7531 Quote
I’m mostly interested to hear people’s take on reliability.
Ed
Ed,
In the late '80s I finally decided I wanted and needed to upgrade to medium format. I seriously researched Blads, Rollei, Mamiya, Bronica, Fujifilm, Contax, and Pentax. My two top priorities was lens quality and camera reliability.

At one point, I visited a certain intelligence agency to see what they were using (expecting them to use Hasselblad as that was the medium format that went to the moon). To my surprise, they were using Pentax 67 and Pentax primes. Knowing they easily had the budget for Hasselblad or even Contax with Zeiss glass, I asked why? They said in both tests and real world experience, the Pentax was the most reliable camera and that the lenses had the resolution needed for their surveillance details required. They admitted that the Zeiss primes were sharper, but it was useless as the bodies were less reliable.

That sold me on Pentax, but I needed something lighter, so I went with the 645.

Both the 67 and 500cm were tried and true and although I would trust the Pentax more, it's going to come down to the individual camera history. A camera that was either abused or underused will be problematic. One that saw light but continual use and care will be the most reliable. The Hassie was more likely to be used in a studio whereas the Pentax was more likely to be exposed to the elements.

Last edited by Alex645; 11-21-2018 at 12:34 PM.
11-20-2018, 04:40 PM   #8
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,275
If you are willing to shoot a Hasselblad with a waist level finder then you should also be willing to shoot a Pentax 67 with a waist level finder. In which case your battery will last a very long time assuming you are not constantly doing long exposures. It'll last so long you might forget it takes a battery. I have both a Pentax 67 and a 500C/M and I find both of them equally reliable. Each has its strong points as with all medium format film cameras.

11-20-2018, 07:11 PM   #9
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2018
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 129
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
If you are willing to shoot a Hasselblad with a waist level finder then you should also be willing to shoot a Pentax 67 with a waist level finder. In which case your battery will last a very long time assuming you are not constantly doing long exposures. It'll last so long you might forget it takes a battery. I have both a Pentax 67 and a 500C/M and I find both of them equally reliable. Each has its strong points as with all medium format film cameras.
Googling about the Hassies has indeed given me the impression that frame spacing and jamming may be a more common occurrence than I’d like.

This has given me lots of food for thought! Now I need to convince my better half I *need* another system haha.
11-20-2018, 08:30 PM   #10
Pentaxian
Cipher's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 471
I had an older 6x7 and loved it, especially with the 45mm and the waist level finder.
11-20-2018, 09:29 PM   #11
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 8,275
QuoteOriginally posted by Ediz7531 Quote
Googling about the Hassies has indeed given me the impression that frame spacing and jamming may be a more common occurrence than Iíd like.
At this stage in the age of these cameras you can have good or bad luck when it comes to getting one that will be in good working order for some time to come. An all mechanical camera like my 500C/M needs to be cleaned and re-lubricatied by now if it has never been done. I just had a CLA done on my 500C/M and I can really feel the film advance crank is much smoother than before and if feels like I should get a lot of years from the camera now.

Both the Pentax 67 and 500C/M have a gotcha. One worse than the other. You may have heard of broken aperture chain on the P67 if you don't follow a lens mounting procedure after removing the TTL prism. And on the 500C/M you can find yourself with a flathead screwdriver re-aligning a slot for mounting a lens back on the body if you took a picture and happen to removed the lens before advancing to the next frame. But that is all part of learning your gear.

Good luck with whatever camera you get and I'll look forward to seeing your results.
11-21-2018, 12:50 AM   #12
Pentaxian
Silent Street's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Photos: Albums
Posts: 796
I consider the very early Asahi Pentax and later Pentax 6x7 cameras, from the late 1960s to early 1970s, to be the least best or wisest choice in terms of long term serviceability/reliability. Angling for a 1989-era Pentax 67 is a vast improvement, but a lot will depend on how the camera has been used, either professionally (common to see beat-up versions operable for a period, before one of the common age-related problems spring up) or amateur use (neglect, careless use and long periods of no use at all, which is not particularly good for any of the Pentax MF cameras). Review what you see available out there with care and get a camera in your hands to examine.

The Achilles Heel with the Pentax 6x7 / 67 cameras is of course the meter coupling chain. Clue up on the correct method of removing and replacing the TTL meter prism (and only that prism) to avoid this. Other problems include off-cal TTL meter (under-, mostly, but sometimes over-exposure), derangement of shutter speeds, shutter drag/uneven spacing, wind-on gear pawl failure, sticky/slow mirror counter roller failure, mirror solenoid sticking (requiring either service or replacement with another, likely old or more recent specimen, plus reassembly and calibration of the lens mount for focus accuracy). The list may seem to go on and on, but 20 years back I had much, much more problems with a 500C/M Hassie's body (not precisely square), the flaky shutter and the lens lock. It just did not go well with me. So I made do here and there with a Mamiya C330. I will put it very blungly: I would never recommend one of the old Hasselblad cameras for a first-time user.

Light seals are an absolute pain if you are replacing them on the prism; they will need replacing one day. Body seals (there are not many of them at all due to clever channels that do a great job of sealing out light) hold up very, very well unless the camera has been exposed to very high temperatures that causes the material to literally melt, with one consequence being that molten goo finding its way onto the shutter curtain!

Chimney (with its own adjustable focus!), waist-level, right-angle finder (with a wide range of adjustable dioptric correction on it), central-area eyepiece magnifier and even no prism at all-focusing provide plenty of options!

Link to Sticky: Pentax 6x7 / 67 (all variants) meter coupling chain - PentaxForums.com

Last edited by Silent Street; 11-21-2018 at 12:56 AM.
11-21-2018, 04:36 AM   #13
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
WPRESTO's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Massachusetts
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 39,456
As a practical matter, Hasselblad was popular with certain categories of pros for a very long time (studio magazine/fashion/product photographers). Consequently, there are surely far more 'blads and basic lenses (up to 250mm, but not the 500mm Tessar) available on the used market that Pentax 6X7's. The Synchro-Compur shutters in 'blad lenses have well-proven reliability and durability, and are, SFAIK - readily repaired.
11-21-2018, 08:59 AM   #14
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: NoVA
Posts: 422
As long as Eric Hendrickson is in business, the 67 is a solid choice. I would pay for a CLA out of the box unless a recent one is documented (not just claimed).

It is unusual for 67 shutters to be in error. I tested an old one once and found shutter speeds to be within 10% right up to 1/1000. But it is a quartz-timed shutter, so it takes a significant failure to mess that up. That means, though, that it uses a battery to time the shutter. These are generally available and easy to change (despite that everyoneís 67-specific Arca-Swiss tripod plate covers the battery door).

Follow the rules on removing and replacing the TTL prism, as has been mentioned.

Hasselblads are more complex. They have interchangeable backs, and thus have more interfaces to mess up. Itís common for the old Compur shutters to be off by 20-30%, which isnít that important as long as itís consistent. Itís typical to see old pro-used Ďblad lenses with labels stuck to them showing corrections, because transparency filmórequired in the day for ad work leading to process color reproductionóis pickier than that. But it means that each lens will have its own personality.

Zeiss lenses earn their reputation, of course, but donít discount the 67 lenses. Iíd take the 45mm SMC Pentax 67 any day over the 50mm Distagon, for example, and itís wider to boot.

Each back will have its own personality, too. Light seals around the dark-slide slot need replacing from time to time, and worn backs may have to be adjusted to work with worn bodies.

I have three bodies, an old and battered 6x7, a less-battered 6x7, and a 67. After CLA by Eric, all are dependable. Get a new enough body to have mirror pre-release, youíll need it.

And then thereís cost, both to buy and to service. Hasselblads require a CLA of every lens and every back in addition to the bodies, and it adds up. Itís a rare Pentax lens that needs anything at all (excepting the leaf-shutter lenses, of course).

The interchangeable backs were touted as a way to switch films mid-roll, which is useful in some scenarios. But itís still cheaper to have a couple of Pentax bodies if that is a real need, and the quartz timing keeps them consistent. Interchangeable backs also make changing rolls quick and easy, but few are using these for run and gun shooting any more. For doing that sort of work with film, Iíd rather have a Pentax 645.

Rick ďlong-term servicing may be an issue for bothĒ Denney
11-21-2018, 10:42 AM   #15
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: May 2018
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 129
Original Poster
I'm thinking about renting both systems for a test shoot, since I'm in no rush.

I took a quick peek at ebay for P67 (second version) prices. Seems like very limited supply from North America sellers, and a high degree of insanity when it comes to prices. I wonder how many P67s were ever made? The Hassy prices seem more uniform across the board.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
645d, 645z, camera, hasselblad, medium format, pentax, pentax 67 vs, reliability, sub-forum, system, vs, vs hasselblad 500cm
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-5 vs MZ-S vs LX vs PZ-1p vs ist*D vs K10D vs K20D vs K-7 vs....... Steelski Pentax K-5 2 06-28-2017 04:59 PM
Pentax 67 vs Hasselblad EL Femto1969 Pentax Medium Format 11 06-07-2017 08:20 PM
Hasselblad V Mount Modified Pentax 67's? NickStancato Pentax Medium Format 4 02-27-2017 11:30 PM
K-series vs M-series image quality-wise? Piotrek K Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 20 10-31-2016 06:22 AM
Good price for a Hasselblad 500cm system? abieleck Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 16 03-19-2013 09:49 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:32 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top