Come on Pentax where’s next 645 !?

**kaseki** · 02-24-2020, 05:53 AM

Originally posted by Alex645

...
The big question: Is there a greater demand for 100MP because 50MP is not enough?
Ricoh would make my day if they just cut the list price in half with the Z.

I don't use mine professionally, but I would think that 50 Mp of color triads using pixel shift would beat 100 Mp of Bayer layout extrapolation. I have no feeling, however, for how well pixel shift works under imperfectly stabilized conditions (or use of flash). So perhaps I have inadvertently answered my own implied question; perhaps 50 Mp green, and 25 MP each of red and blue = 100 Mp is, in practice, a better format, even though display of any difference is likely limited to very large prints. I suppose I could use the added cropping area to compensate for sloppy composition. Bottom line, I am unable to assure Pentax that I would buy a potential Zii out of necessity, or even superior toy acquisition.

**SteveinSLC** · 02-24-2020, 10:48 AM

Well, speaking from my experience with the K-1 and pixel-shift, things need to be very still and very solid. So anything that's not very far away in landscapes needs to be very still. Product and museum photography should be just fine. So a stabilized sensor 645z that can do pixel-shift sounds pretty good.

**rdenney** · 02-24-2020, 11:11 AM

I can’t assure Pentax I would buy a replacement, either. But it’s because 1.) the 645z is already producing dream results and I don’t crave more, and 2.) I couldn’t afford it anyway until all the early adopters are all in and the price drops. I bought the 645z in early 2018 when the prices were about half of where they started.

If they were smart, they would use a new model to introduce a tiered medium-format system, similar to the APS-C and full frame small-format lines. Instead of a 645zII as their best flagship model, it would be a modest update, maybe only to the graphics processor or some such, to make a 645z Mk. II, plus a new more powerful model like a 645S or something, with a larger sensor. Then, they could have a model at $5000 and another one at $8000 or more.

And why aren’t they assigning a whole wing of their repair staff to create a certified pre-owned lens inventory? That would be an inexpensive but significant show of support from them.

Rick “and pay what it takes to make the Capture One problem go away” Denney

texandrews · 02-24-2020, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by rdenney

I can’t assure Pentax I would buy a replacement, either. But it’s because 1.) the 645z is already producing dream results and I don’t crave more, and 2.) I couldn’t afford it anyway until all the early adopters are all in and the price drops. I bought the 645z in early 2018 when the prices were about half of where they started.

If they were smart, they would use a new model to introduce a tiered medium-format system, similar to the APS-C and full frame small-format lines. Instead of a 645zII as their best flagship model, it would be a modest update, maybe only to the graphics processor or some such, to make a 645z Mk. II, plus a new more powerful model like a 645S or something, with a larger sensor. Then, they could have a model at $5000 and another one at $8000 or more.

And why aren’t they assigning a whole wing of their repair staff to create a certified pre-owned lens inventory? That would be an inexpensive but significant show of support from them.

Rick “and pay what it takes to make the Capture One problem go away” Denney

You are so smart. No sarcasm, agree completely with respect to ideas about what should be done. But I might buy into a new 645 if it had the right upgrades for me, and be an early adopter. I can write it off---which means that other Muricans are subsidizing me, tax-wise (which is wrong....). Generally, I'm a social liberal, fiscally middle of the road. But taxes need a total overhaul....

**kaseki** · 02-25-2020, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by texandrews

You are so smart. No sarcasm, agree completely with respect to ideas about what should be done. But I might buy into a new 645 if it had the right upgrades for me, and be an early adopter. I can write it off---which means that other Muricans are subsidizing me, tax-wise (which is wrong....). Generally, I'm a social liberal, fiscally middle of the road. But taxes need a total overhaul....

Without write-offs, capital investment would be greatly diminished, affecting corporations, shop-keepers, and lone professional photographers, and hence job creation and productivity. The belief that all of one's income belongs to the Government less what they let you keep is, I think, a flawed concept.

texandrews · 02-25-2020, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by kaseki

Without write-offs, capital investment would be greatly diminished, affecting corporations, shop-keepers, and lone professional photographers, and hence job creation and productivity.

Maybe, maybe not. I bought my Z before I was doing any professional work (other than my artwork)---it was OOP and not deducted.

Quote:

The belief that all of one's income belongs to the Government less what they let you keep is, I think, a flawed concept.

Oh, I definitely don't think that is true! But I do think the tax code allows businesses and "businesses" to have the general taxpayer subsidize their business, or some aspects thereof. I think sometimes that might be a good thing for societal good (and probably not perpetually), but very often not. But now we're flying way off topic, and I know, I started it.

whwang · 02-25-2020, 11:26 PM

I think the current 645z is great in many ways, but can also benefit from many improvements like those mentioned in this thread. The real problem I see is that, Pentax just doesn't have the resource to do it. Just maintaining their FF and APSC lines plus a couple of new lenses every few years (not including those made by Tokina and Tamron with Pentax marks) already seems difficult enough for them. It will be a big surprise to me if they can do any major upgrade to the 645z line.

texandrews · 02-26-2020, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by whwang

I think the current 645z is great in many ways, but can also benefit from many improvements like those mentioned in this thread.

We agree on this one.

Quote:

The real problem I see is that, Pentax just doesn't have the resource to do it. Just maintaining their FF and APSC lines plus a couple of new lenses every few years (not including those made by Tokina and Tamron with Pentax marks) already seems difficult enough for them.

Well, it seems difficult for those who want Pentax to have upgrade/replacement cycles that mirror other manufacturers' cycles.

Quote:

It will be a big surprise to me if they can do any major upgrade to the 645z line.

Not to me, although it would surprise me if it happens before halfway through 2021.

02-24-2020, 11:11 AM	#138
rdenney Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: NoVA Posts: 635	Come on Pentax where’s next 645 !? I can’t assure Pentax I would buy a replacement, either. But it’s because 1.) the 645z is already producing dream results and I don’t crave more, and 2.) I couldn’t afford it anyway until all the early adopters are all in and the price drops. I bought the 645z in early 2018 when the prices were about half of where they started. If they were smart, they would use a new model to introduce a tiered medium-format system, similar to the APS-C and full frame small-format lines. Instead of a 645zII as their best flagship model, it would be a modest update, maybe only to the graphics processor or some such, to make a 645z Mk. II, plus a new more powerful model like a 645S or something, with a larger sensor. Then, they could have a model at $5000 and another one at $8000 or more. And why aren’t they assigning a whole wing of their repair staff to create a certified pre-owned lens inventory? That would be an inexpensive but significant show of support from them. Rick “and pay what it takes to make the Capture One problem go away” Denney

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02-24-2020, 05:53 AM	#136
kaseki Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,138	Originally posted by Alex645 ... The big question: Is there a greater demand for 100MP because 50MP is not enough? Ricoh would make my day if they just cut the list price in half with the Z. I don't use mine professionally, but I would think that 50 Mp of color triads using pixel shift would beat 100 Mp of Bayer layout extrapolation. I have no feeling, however, for how well pixel shift works under imperfectly stabilized conditions (or use of flash). So perhaps I have inadvertently answered my own implied question; perhaps 50 Mp green, and 25 MP each of red and blue = 100 Mp is, in practice, a better format, even though display of any difference is likely limited to very large prints. I suppose I could use the added cropping area to compensate for sloppy composition. Bottom line, I am unable to assure Pentax that I would buy a potential Zii out of necessity, or even superior toy acquisition.

02-24-2020, 10:48 AM	#137
SteveinSLC Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 568	Well, speaking from my experience with the K-1 and pixel-shift, things need to be very still and very solid. So anything that's not very far away in landscapes needs to be very still. Product and museum photography should be just fine. So a stabilized sensor 645z that can do pixel-shift sounds pretty good.

02-24-2020, 05:46 PM	#139
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by rdenney I can’t assure Pentax I would buy a replacement, either. But it’s because 1.) the 645z is already producing dream results and I don’t crave more, and 2.) I couldn’t afford it anyway until all the early adopters are all in and the price drops. I bought the 645z in early 2018 when the prices were about half of where they started. If they were smart, they would use a new model to introduce a tiered medium-format system, similar to the APS-C and full frame small-format lines. Instead of a 645zII as their best flagship model, it would be a modest update, maybe only to the graphics processor or some such, to make a 645z Mk. II, plus a new more powerful model like a 645S or something, with a larger sensor. Then, they could have a model at $5000 and another one at $8000 or more. And why aren’t they assigning a whole wing of their repair staff to create a certified pre-owned lens inventory? That would be an inexpensive but significant show of support from them. Rick “and pay what it takes to make the Capture One problem go away” Denney You are so smart. No sarcasm, agree completely with respect to ideas about what should be done. But I might buy into a new 645 if it had the right upgrades for me, and be an early adopter. I can write it off---which means that other Muricans are subsidizing me, tax-wise (which is wrong....). Generally, I'm a social liberal, fiscally middle of the road. But taxes need a total overhaul....

02-25-2020, 08:14 AM	#140
kaseki Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2017 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,138	Originally posted by texandrews You are so smart. No sarcasm, agree completely with respect to ideas about what should be done. But I might buy into a new 645 if it had the right upgrades for me, and be an early adopter. I can write it off---which means that other Muricans are subsidizing me, tax-wise (which is wrong....). Generally, I'm a social liberal, fiscally middle of the road. But taxes need a total overhaul.... Without write-offs, capital investment would be greatly diminished, affecting corporations, shop-keepers, and lone professional photographers, and hence job creation and productivity. The belief that all of one's income belongs to the Government less what they let you keep is, I think, a flawed concept.

02-25-2020, 11:12 AM	#141
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by kaseki Without write-offs, capital investment would be greatly diminished, affecting corporations, shop-keepers, and lone professional photographers, and hence job creation and productivity. Maybe, maybe not. I bought my Z before I was doing any professional work (other than my artwork)---it was OOP and not deducted. Quote: The belief that all of one's income belongs to the Government less what they let you keep is, I think, a flawed concept. Oh, I definitely don't think that is true! But I do think the tax code allows businesses and "businesses" to have the general taxpayer subsidize their business, or some aspects thereof. I think sometimes that might be a good thing for societal good (and probably not perpetually), but very often not. But now we're flying way off topic, and I know, I started it.

02-25-2020, 11:26 PM	#142
whwang Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 84	I think the current 645z is great in many ways, but can also benefit from many improvements like those mentioned in this thread. The real problem I see is that, Pentax just doesn't have the resource to do it. Just maintaining their FF and APSC lines plus a couple of new lenses every few years (not including those made by Tokina and Tamron with Pentax marks) already seems difficult enough for them. It will be a big surprise to me if they can do any major upgrade to the 645z line.

02-26-2020, 10:38 AM	#143
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,397	Originally posted by whwang I think the current 645z is great in many ways, but can also benefit from many improvements like those mentioned in this thread. We agree on this one. Quote: The real problem I see is that, Pentax just doesn't have the resource to do it. Just maintaining their FF and APSC lines plus a couple of new lenses every few years (not including those made by Tokina and Tamron with Pentax marks) already seems difficult enough for them. Well, it seems difficult for those who want Pentax to have upgrade/replacement cycles that mirror other manufacturers' cycles. Quote: It will be a big surprise to me if they can do any major upgrade to the 645z line. Not to me, although it would surprise me if it happens before halfway through 2021.