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05-23-2019, 10:14 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarneyL Quote
This is still a 10 grand camera that's an overkill for a lot of things current FF userbase shoot
You are right. And if I consider the whole imaging chain, the display media, then this GFX100 is an overkill for about everything except commercial works where it can be more of a competitive advantage rather than a necessity (BTW, a lot of commercial works have even been done with 24Mp or less). But... a GFX100 will have a strong influence on the brand image of Fuji, it's a halo for the consumer, the up-lift of the brand image will trigger more sales of XT3, XT30 etc.

05-23-2019, 11:57 PM   #17
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But isn't this just marvelous. Fujifilm is bringin MF(superFF) out there. I suppose that MF has and still is quite niche. Pentax did make big move with 645D and they continued that with Z. As they said it is good to have other brands like Fujifilm to make 645 too. to make it more common. everybody wins. isuppose that funds of developing 645 has been frozen after Z. Perhaps just because it is product that won't sell too much, it must be expensive to make too. Now Fujifilm is leading the way that has been done with Hassy. Mirrorless bigger format, but more affrodable, and they jumped on video too to make it more admireable for some.


If request is growing it make more sense to Ricoh actually go forward with it. Make new big move. What they have to overcome now is AF and buffer. In all of their models. Not just FF and 645(crop). I have been lusting after that 645Z for many yrs. now. It finally is in within my reach, and I will pull the trigger later this year. Access to those vintage lenses is big factor for me. Image quality and huge DR is key elements to me. Not so much resolution(atleast not yet), and yes tripod will be my friend.
05-24-2019, 12:12 AM - 3 Likes   #18
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Another perspective is that the 645Z is now 5 years old. The Canon 7D II was also released in 2014 which is still sold new as is the venerable Nikon D750.
05-24-2019, 02:52 AM - 1 Like   #19
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Pentax has said they are working on the 645 update. That doesn't say exactly when it will be released. When they only release a new camera every five years, they need to make sure it counts.

Clearly they are upgrading their image processor to something a bit more spry and maybe more video capable. They probably are also trying to figure out if they are going to stay crop or go full frame medium format and then what other features they can tack on that will make the 645z stand out in a market that has multiple cameras released with the same sensor and when they have already said that they aren't planning to compete based on price.

05-24-2019, 02:57 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
They probably are also trying to figure out if they are going to stay crop or go full frame medium format and then what other features they can tack on that will make the 645z stand out in a market that has multiple cameras released with the same sensor and when they have already said that they aren't planning to compete based on price.
Something I've wondered for a while... Do the digital era Pentax medium format lenses cover "full frame", or are they specifically designed for the cropped format?
05-24-2019, 03:40 AM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Something I've wondered for a while... Do the digital era Pentax medium format lenses cover "full frame", or are they specifically designed for the cropped format?
To make it short :
645 DA : no (at least not officially)
645DFA : yes.

---------- Post added 05-24-19 at 03:43 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by jlstrawman Quote
If this is so "frustrating," why torture yourself? Move to "almost all companies" that have what you want. My I suggest Fuji, with their GFX 100MP MF body just announced. It's a steal at $9995, $22K less than the Hasselblad.
There is no Hasselblad camera (yet) with 100MP small sensor.
The one you are referring to, if I read correctly your message, has a bigger (and older) sensor, 54x40mm. It is not the same camera at all, not really comparable.
05-24-2019, 05:53 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by SylvainB Quote
To make it short :
645 DA : no (at least not officially)
645DFA : yes.
And this is I think the big hint at what Pentax's ultimate goal is: "FF 645". Because all but a couple of the lenses cover FF 645, including newly designed ones, I think this is where they want to go. I doubt they are doing this to keep legacy film body users happy---otherwise they would be keeping that line alive. The only other thing I can think is that with the D they designed the body so that the older lenses would work, to bring the film body users forward, and that designing new lenses along those lines just wound up being the easier path.
05-24-2019, 06:05 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by regen Quote
Been waiting and waiting Iím so ready to give you all that big cash regardless how tempting Fuji has been lately, now even the gfx100 is around the corner, where is your next 645 !? Mirroless or not I just need an update, faster af /more dr / higher iso / larger sensor / mirrorless / lighter weight size... Anything ! pick one spec and Iíll buy it , just please donít be so darn quiet ! If you arenít planning on developing 645 anymore just say so donít let us hang for years...
Based on all of your comments in this thread, I think you are just too angst-y about what future moves Pentax may make. If the future health of the company is really a driving factor for you, then really there's only 3.75 companies you should be buying from: Sony, Fuji, and Canon, in that order, with .5 being Panasonic and .25 being Leica. The first 3 are such big companies that they are less likely to fail (although Canon sure seems to want to...). Panny is also a very large company, and likely to keep the imaging division going for other reasons. Leica will survive as a luxury brand---there's nothing rational about luxury.

05-24-2019, 07:16 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Based on all of your comments in this thread, I think you are just too angst-y about what future moves Pentax may make. If the future health of the company is really a driving factor for you, then really there's only 3.75 companies you should be buying from: Sony, Fuji, and Canon, in that order, with .5 being Panasonic and .25 being Leica. The first 3 are such big companies that they are less likely to fail (although Canon sure seems to want to...). Panny is also a very large company, and likely to keep the imaging division going for other reasons. Leica will survive as a luxury brand---there's nothing rational about luxury.
But only Fuji is competing with Pentax at budget medium format (Hassy too if it counts). Pentax seems to me now they are lost, try to do it all but not eliciting well not has a clear future plan, while other companies all have some strong focus : m43, FF , mirrorless, 645mirrorless, sensor, luxury. Thatís the biggest problem now.
05-24-2019, 07:46 AM - 2 Likes   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by regen Quote
But only Fuji is competing with Pentax at budget medium format (Hassy too if it counts). Pentax seems to me now they are lost, try to do it all but not eliciting well not has a clear future plan, while other companies all have some strong focus : m43, FF , mirrorless, 645mirrorless, sensor, luxury. Thatís the biggest problem now.
It is obviously time to ditch the Pentax gear. As the song says, "No time for losers..." and not having an obvious in-brand upgrade path is so very frustrating. What's worse is knowing that any new product from Pentax will likely be a true 645 sensor dSLR* and not mirrorless. One might as well be shooting film with a Holga.


Steve

* All the better to avoid having to develop a new line of short register MF lenses.
05-24-2019, 08:14 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by regen Quote
But only Fuji is competing with Pentax at budget medium format (Hassy too if it counts). Pentax seems to me now they are lost, try to do it all but not eliciting well not has a clear future plan, while other companies all have some strong focus : m43, FF , mirrorless, 645mirrorless, sensor, luxury. Thatís the biggest problem now.
Or is Fuji competing with Pentax. How I see it is tahat since they donít have FF(K-1 or A7 or...)and especially because of that they are throwing super FF out there. That does put them even more niche than Pentax. It just is tht it is latest and they are boosting it a lot, that one might see it as direct competition to Pentax K-1 or 645 Z.
05-24-2019, 11:34 AM - 7 Likes   #27
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Come on Pentax whereís next 645 !?

Iím much more interested in their commitment to servicing cameras into the future than in their commitment to make new ones that I canít afford or wonít buy.

My, how we let sensors make our decisions for us. We demand the cutting edge sensor, then we demand lenses that can perform up to the level of the sensor. Yet in practice, lack of depth of field and camera shake (IBIS or not) will undermine the marginal improvements in both. Donít misunderstandóresults even with those issues can be excellent, but they undermine the value of paying double for double the resolution. And then thereís the computer storage problem. We have a sensor and lenses that can make superb prints FAR bigger than 99.9% of any of us will make, yet here we complain that Pentax isnít sufficiently feeding our gear acquisition frenzy.

The features that made the 645z the best camera in the market five years ago havenít gone poof! and left us with substandard work. We complain about Ricohís commitment, but what of our commitment to doing quality work with the tools available?

I do not see photography these days that justifies all the kvetching about stuff not being good enough. Except from large format, that is. Instead of a $10K camera with a sensor with 3-micron pixels and lenses that have to cost five large to exploit them, why arenít we pushing for a 4x5Ē sensor solution for a Graflok mount? Are we committed to quality or not? Do we want to demonstrate our professional skills or not?

Ricoh should have come out with a 645zII that made incremental improvements two years ago. Better shutter handling with Live View, a faster processor with better video capabilityóstuff like that. Maybe that would have been sufficiently symbolic to hold the frenzy at bay.

Rick ďnot really kidding about the need for a 4x5Ē sensorĒ Denney

Last edited by rdenney; 05-24-2019 at 11:41 AM.
05-24-2019, 04:18 PM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by regen Quote
But only Fuji is competing with Pentax at budget medium format (Hassy too if it counts). Pentax seems to me now they are lost, try to do it all but not eliciting well not has a clear future plan, while other companies all have some strong focus : m43, FF , mirrorless, 645mirrorless, sensor, luxury. Thatís the biggest problem now.
You gotta move on.
05-24-2019, 04:21 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
Iím much more interested in their commitment to servicing cameras into the future than in their commitment to make new ones that I canít afford or wonít buy.

My, how we let sensors make our decisions for us. We demand the cutting edge sensor, then we demand lenses that can perform up to the level of the sensor. Yet in practice, lack of depth of field and camera shake (IBIS or not) will undermine the marginal improvements in both. Donít misunderstandóresults even with those issues can be excellent, but they undermine the value of paying double for double the resolution. And then thereís the computer storage problem. We have a sensor and lenses that can make superb prints FAR bigger than 99.9% of any of us will make, yet here we complain that Pentax isnít sufficiently feeding our gear acquisition frenzy.

The features that made the 645z the best camera in the market five years ago havenít gone poof! and left us with substandard work. We complain about Ricohís commitment, but what of our commitment to doing quality work with the tools available?

I do not see photography these days that justifies all the kvetching about stuff not being good enough. Except from large format, that is. Instead of a $10K camera with a sensor with 3-micron pixels and lenses that have to cost five large to exploit them, why arenít we pushing for a 4x5Ē sensor solution for a Graflok mount? Are we committed to quality or not? Do we want to demonstrate our professional skills or not?

Ricoh should have come out with a 645zII that made incremental improvements two years ago. Better shutter handling with Live View, a faster processor with better video capabilityóstuff like that. Maybe that would have been sufficiently symbolic to hold the frenzy at bay.

Rick ďnot really kidding about the need for a 4x5Ē sensorĒ Denney
Jeez, Rick. Why spoil the party with a bunch of rational thoughts?
05-24-2019, 05:19 PM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by regen Quote
But only Fuji is competing with Pentax at budget medium format (Hassy too if it counts). Pentax seems to me now they are lost, try to do it all but not eliciting well not has a clear future plan, while other companies all have some strong focus : m43, FF , mirrorless, 645mirrorless, sensor, luxury. Thatís the biggest problem now.
My thoughts are in line with previous comments here. Don't waste your emotion and time worrying about Pentax any further. Move to a brand that gives you what you want and need right now, and has a game plan for the future that you're comfortable with. I'm not saying this to be facetious... I really mean it. Move to what works best for you. Life's too short
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