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05-24-2019, 08:25 PM - 1 Like   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
Ricoh should have come out with a 645zII that made incremental improvements two years ago. Better shutter handling with Live View, a faster processor with better video capability—stuff like that. Maybe that would have been sufficiently symbolic to hold the frenzy at bay.

Rick “not really kidding about the need for a 4x5” sensor” Denney
I agree and have said that for some time.

- I’m still happy with 50mp

But need the following:
- EVF option would be good for the Z
- array of shutter options
- faster processor and operation
- better LCD screen, higher res and lower reflection
- those new zooms 45-90 and 90-180 I lust for
- revised 25mm lens
- there is some size loss to be had with the empty space inside the Z

I am travelling right now in the UK and have brought my Z with DFA35 and FA80-160, plus my Canon 5D4 with 16-35, 24-70 and 70-200, BUT I’m still using my Z for almost everything because the end result is better and it’s so enjoyable to use.

If a revised Z arrived with those lenses I could actually lighten my carry load and not bother with both systems.

05-25-2019, 02:31 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Or is Fuji competing with Pentax. How I see it is tahat since they don’t have FF(K-1 or A7 or...)and especially because of that they are throwing super FF out there. That does put them even more niche than Pentax. It just is tht it is latest and they are boosting it a lot, that one might see it as direct competition to Pentax K-1 or 645 Z.
I know some guys that made a big and expensive change from Canon to Fuji APSC. So to me there seems to be some interest in the more compact format with great lenses. That was before Canon went FF mirrorless.

In addition Fuji has built a strong cooperation with Phase One that incorporates full Capture One Pro support (tethering including a server to connect to the Capture One iOS App) for their APSC and MF cameras with the addition of the special Fuji film simulations. IMO a strong case for professional studio work and more that will attract professionals interested in going MF. People who may have looked at the 645Z may now look at Fuji 645 for such work. That's why I think Fuji 645 is not more niche than Pentax with 645Z.

Fuji invests in a stronger case for future growth. Interesting to observe this.

When I looked through the optical viewfinder of a 645D years ago I simply was absolutely amazed. Nothing a Fuji will offer, I guess. So I hope Pentax will find it's unique and successfull way to continue 645 in the future.

Last edited by acoufap; 05-25-2019 at 04:19 AM.
05-25-2019, 07:08 AM   #33
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Capture One making a deal with Fuji but blocking out Pentax makes me angry at Phase One’s childish inconsistency. They said they would not support a medium-format solution because it competed with their medium format products. So much for the purity of that silly position.

Rick “not blaming Pentax” Denney
05-25-2019, 07:46 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
Capture One making a deal with Fuji but blocking out Pentax makes me angry at Phase One’s childish inconsistency. They said they would not support a medium-format solution because it competed with their medium format products. So much for the purity of that silly position.

Rick “not blaming Pentax” Denney
Absolutely. They're on my boycott list. At the very least I'd like to know, from them, why. If it's about money, specifically paid from the manufacturers to support the cameras, then I get it. Pay to play. If it's about something Pentax did/failed to do, I'd like to know what that is/was.

FTR, I was an Adobe h8r until a few years ago. And although many have excoriated them for their rentals, I think it's actually viable. I also think that LR has been well priced for some time, back into the days when it could be bought outright (I always thought PS was ridiculously overpriced).

05-25-2019, 10:33 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by acoufap Quote
I know some guys that made a big and expensive change from Canon to Fuji APSC. So to me there seems to be some interest in the more compact format with great lenses. That was before Canon went FF mirrorless.

In addition Fuji has built a strong cooperation with Phase One that incorporates full Capture One Pro support (tethering including a server to connect to the Capture One iOS App) for their APSC and MF cameras with the addition of the special Fuji film simulations. IMO a strong case for professional studio work and more that will attract professionals interested in going MF. People who may have looked at the 645Z may now look at Fuji 645 for such work. That's why I think Fuji 645 is not more niche than Pentax with 645Z.

Fuji invests in a stronger case for future growth. Interesting to observe this.

When I looked through the optical viewfinder of a 645D years ago I simply was absolutely amazed. Nothing a Fuji will offer, I guess. So I hope Pentax will find it's unique and successfull way to continue 645 in the future.
Well, that is great. why many will look at Fuji is also because it is new and it is mirrorless and it is fancy and it is still cheaper than phase one and it has 100 MP. but why I mean that Fuji is more niche is that they don’t have FF, only aps-c and crop 645, both mirrorless, and they intend to be that way. But that does not matter. 645 is niche in general, also because of the size and the price. Interesting times.
05-25-2019, 10:34 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
Capture One making a deal with Fuji but blocking out Pentax makes me angry at Phase One’s childish inconsistency. They said they would not support a medium-format solution because it competed with their medium format products. So much for the purity of that silly position.

Rick “not blaming Pentax” Denney
Hm. Here are my thoughts about this topic.

Every company has to estimate and decide if effort for services will pay off or not - it's business.

Fujifilm gets a special Capture One Pro Edition. So there must be money in the game. My guess is that Fujifilm invests strongly in the relationship with Phase One. They do it because they believe it will pay off and Phase One thinks their benefit will be bigger than the damage to their MF business. Phase One is a small company and to some degree they may have to make trade-offs to secure their future. They expand and diversify their business based on Capture One Pro to reduce risk. That's absolutely ok for me.

Do you believe that Ricoh would invest in a relationshop with Phase One like Fujifilm and Sony do? Do you think many Pentax users would buy Capture One Pro if Capture One Pro would offer a lot more Pentax support? So much that it pays off for both sides?

I'd like to see such! I'd really like to see much better support for Pentax cameras because I already use Capture One Pro and love using it. It's IMO simply a great raw converter that does other things also good enough. Fujifilm and Sony seem to think the same and invest in it. Maybe Pentax don't so much or they don't have the funds?!

Last edited by acoufap; 05-25-2019 at 10:52 AM.
05-25-2019, 10:48 AM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by repaap Quote
Well, that is great. why many will look at Fuji is also because it is new and it is mirrorless and it is fancy and it is still cheaper than phase one and it has 100 MP. but why I mean that Fuji is more niche is that they don’t have FF, only aps-c and crop 645, both mirrorless, and they intend to be that way. But that does not matter. 645 is niche in general, also because of the size and the price. Interesting times.
Yes, very interesting times - not only in the area of digital MF cameras.

05-25-2019, 11:17 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
- EVF option would be good for the Z
When I read online comments, I feel like people buy anything that is sold to them, whether is makes sense or not. People want what's trendy, like shirts, trousers etc.
05-25-2019, 03:15 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
When I read online comments, I feel like people buy anything that is sold to them, whether is makes sense or not. People want what's trendy, like shirts, trousers etc.
I’m not asking for mirrorless here. I’m saying that there’s times that would benefit from an electronic finder for framing and fine focus when sun/glare is affecting the lcd screen.

Something clip-on would be fine. If that means the body is a mirrorless version of the 645z then that’s fine too.

I think it’s foolish to say that an EVF is trendy and something that doesn’t make sense. If you do then obviously you shoot differently to me. An OVF is only good for so much.
05-25-2019, 03:27 PM - 1 Like   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
When I read online comments, I feel like people buy anything that is sold to them, whether is makes sense or not. People want what's trendy, like shirts, trousers etc.
QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
I think it’s foolish to say that an EVF is trendy and something that doesn’t make sense. If you do then obviously you shoot differently to me. An OVF is only good for so much.
I have to agree that, in lieu of a hybrid viewfinder, an EVF option is potentially very useful. I sometimes use an magnified LCD loupe on my K-3 if I'm using manual focus glass. It works well for specific use cases where the OVF is less than ideal, but it's not great ergonomically. If the hot-shoe were to provide an interface that could drive an EVF module in Live View, that's something I'd buy...
05-26-2019, 12:19 AM   #41
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this was posted here already, but check out this interview!

Ricoh interview at Nippon Camera*magazine (recap) - Pentax Rumors
05-26-2019, 01:10 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by mazwick Quote
this was posted here already, but check out this interview!

Ricoh interview at Nippon Camera*magazine (recap) - Pentax Rumors
“currently under consideration” meaning that they’ve done nothing I guess. If they’d said under development then that’s a different story.
05-26-2019, 02:31 AM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by 2351HD Quote
“currently under consideration” meaning that they’ve done nothing I guess. If they’d said under development then that’s a different story.
I think this is a more useful link: Medium-format DSLRs are coming, and mirrorless converts will return! Ricoh Q&A from CP+

In particular, this quote, Takashi Arai: First of all, we'll continue the 645 line within the Pentax collection. But what we are going to compete against our [rivals with] is not the pricing, but the quality of the picture. [That's what's] most important within the camera. So we will still continue to study and produce a good camera with good image quality: That is also the same within the 645 medium-format line.

Sounds pretty clear that Pentax will release a new medium format camera, the question is how long it takes to develop and what features they can put into it to make it stand out from the crowd.
05-26-2019, 03:17 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
the question is how long it takes to develop and what features they can put into it to make it stand out from the crowd.
Maybe it's just confirmation bias, but for mine, standing out from the crowd is not merely more resolution; it is providing the "medium format look" - and that only comes from a bigger sensor (or faster lenses, which full frame already has).
05-26-2019, 03:23 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Maybe it's just confirmation bias, but for mine, standing out from the crowd is not merely more resolution; it is providing the "medium format look" - and that only comes from a bigger sensor (or faster lenses, which full frame already has).
Absolutely.

If Pentax came out with a K-1 sequel that had 60 megapixels and 6K video, there might be some who would be please, but I would be pretty disappointed if still image quality was stagnant. But that's actually why most of us buy cameras -- not to shoot the next independent film classic...
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