Come on Pentax where’s next 645 !?

repaap · 06-01-2019, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by whwang

To me, the real problem of 645z is the size of the camera. That size was already the largest among all old 645 film bodies (judged by the flange-back distances), and is inappropriately big for a 44mmx33mm sensor. Because of the unnecessarily large flange-back distance, it's hard to make a good ultra-wide lens or an excellent wide lens, like those on the Fuji. This large camera body only makes (some) sense for a true 645 sensor. I really love my 645z, but I am very disappointed by the choices of wide/ultra-wide lenses on it, especially after comparing pictures taken with Pentax 25mm and Fuji 23mm side-by-side. I hope the next Pentax 645 camera (if there is one) can solve this.

which you would it to be able to fix? Small size of the sensor compared to size of the camera, or smaller camera and better wide lenses? I could imagine that making bigger sensor would make camera it self quite a bit more expensive(that has said to be no problem by Ricoh - image quality first - not sure if they ment that), but it would make lenses little wider at the same time..

whwang · 06-01-2019, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by kaseki

My perspective: Given the modern ability to stitch together images in post processing -- images potentially taken with medium-angle lenses that can always beat ultra-wide-angle lenses in lower non-uniformity, aberrations, and distortions -- ultra-wide lenses' role would seem to be more limited than before the age of massive processing power on one's desk. Ultra-wide angle might now only be necessary for certain dynamic scenes that wouldn't be normally taken with long telephoto lenses -- perhaps billowing sails seen from the sailboat's deck, huge flocks of flamingos taking flight, etc. My perspective should not be taken to infer that as a hobbyist, I would not enjoy a lens with an unusual quality; I do have an Arsenal fish-eye for my 645s, for example. Even more "fisheye" field width could be of interest (at used lens prices). But where does the desired scene boundary stop? Do I need 645 resolution when one of the Ricoh devices could provide an extreme image width for a single shot?

Some very nice stitched panoramic examples may be seen in Glenn Randall's book, The Art, Science, and Craft of Great Landscape Photography.

Actually I do that a lot. Really a lot. But, there is a limit: when your target moves. That happens when you have stars moving slowly on the sky while everything on the foreground is fixed. In such a case, it will be really hard to stitch multiple frames while giving each frame sufficient exposure time. Fortunately I don’t do this kind of photography very often, so I can live with the lack of good UltraWide, for now.

tuco · 06-03-2019, 08:01 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by whwang

Actually I do that a lot. Really a lot. But, there is a limit: when your target moves. ...

As a data point, I have a 3:1 pano camera. I love shooting it. And I can say, for me, stitching a pano together is far from the same experience as seeing your composition in a view finder and taking it in a single frame. But I'm referring to general photography and not specialized subjects like wide field astro photography.

moroccanimager · 06-06-2019, 04:58 AM - **2 Likes**

There's not much wrong with the 645z. Operator improvement should always be at the fore.

texandrews · 06-06-2019, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by moroccanimager

There's not much wrong with the 645z. Operator improvement should always be at the fore.

I resemble that remark! Both parts.

Manzur Fahim · 06-13-2019, 03:57 AM

Pentax should release a 100MP version of 645z, mirrorless or not. It'll be good to see some competition on the MF market. Also they should release some new 645 lenses.

Doppler9000 · 07-10-2019, 01:24 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by biz-engineer

When I read online comments, I feel like people buy anything that is sold to them, whether is makes sense or not. People want what's trendy, like shirts, trousers etc.

Not sure where you live, but in most of North America shirts and trousers are considered more than just a passing fancy.

🙂

TerryL · 07-10-2019, 02:35 PM

I'm waiting on the DFA 85mm lens. I'm also looking at the Fuji 50MP MF Mirrorless. At 2 lbs, that's hard to beat.

biz-engineer · 07-10-2019, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by TerryL

I'm waiting on the DFA 85mm lens. I'm also looking at the Fuji 50MP MF Mirrorless. At 2 lbs, that's hard to beat.

Try the Fuji GFX50S before you buy. After being used to the K1, I felt the GFX50 very awkward to use, beside the clunky display, I couldn't see the entire frame in the viewfinder without removing glasses, which is no problem at all with my K1.

itshimitis · 07-12-2019, 02:02 AM

I found the Fuji awkward without the grip attached. You lose the smaller size aspect then...

Fcsnt54 · 07-12-2019, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by TerryL

I'm waiting on the DFA 85mm lens. I'm also looking at the Fuji 50MP MF Mirrorless. At 2 lbs, that's hard to beat.

I've been happy with mine. Although I use the Fuji lenses most of the time, there's been cases I've been loving the 50s with a Pentax 43mm

Zooland · 07-13-2019, 09:08 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Rondec

I think this is a more useful link: Medium-format DSLRs are coming, and mirrorless converts will return! Ricoh Q&A from CP+

In particular, this quote, Takashi Arai: First of all, we'll continue the 645 line within the Pentax collection. But what we are going to compete against our [rivals with] is not the pricing, but the quality of the picture. [That's what's] most important within the camera. So we will still continue to study and produce a good camera with good image quality: That is also the same within the 645 medium-format line.

Sounds pretty clear that Pentax will release a new medium format camera, the question is how long it takes to develop and what features they can put into it to make it stand out from the crowd.

Pentax is different, they don’t pump out cameras like the others...
They focus on quality which is why the 645z is still a spectacular camera.

texandrews · 07-14-2019, 10:26 AM

Originally posted by Zooland

Pentax is different, they don’t pump out cameras like the others...
They focus on quality which is why the 645z is still a spectacular camera.

Still, 5 years later! That is correct, and I have no itch to move out of my Pentax gear. With it I also have amazing flexibility with all of the legacy glass---from the 6x7 series, too---and the ability to use all of my 645 lenses with my K1mkII. And all of the flash gear, and many if not most of the other accessories.

bull drinkwater · 07-24-2019, 02:59 PM

for my $0.02 , the 645Z looks as about as good as it gets. BUT I can think of a few things it needs.
1 up the sensor to 75 mp.
2 add vertical and horizontal sweep panorama.
3 add 5 or 7 image adjustable spread HDR.
Finish it off by addressing and correcting every bug discovered since it's introduction. call it the 645Z 2 XL

Irie · 09-05-2019, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by bull drinkwater

for my $0.02 , the 645Z looks as about as good as it gets. BUT I can think of a few things it needs.
1 up the sensor to 75 mp.
2 add vertical and horizontal sweep panorama.
3 add 5 or 7 image adjustable spread HDR.
Finish it off by addressing and correcting every bug discovered since it's introduction. call it the 645Z 2 XL

And please ditch the metal PENTAX badge on the camera. The 645D looks so much better.

07-14-2019, 10:26 AM	#73
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,390	Truth! Originally posted by Zooland Pentax is different, they don’t pump out cameras like the others... They focus on quality which is why the 645z is still a spectacular camera. Still, 5 years later! That is correct, and I have no itch to move out of my Pentax gear. With it I also have amazing flexibility with all of the legacy glass---from the 6x7 series, too---and the ability to use all of my 645 lenses with my K1mkII. And all of the flash gear, and many if not most of the other accessories.

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06-01-2019, 11:06 AM	#61
repaap Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2010 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,242	Originally posted by whwang To me, the real problem of 645z is the size of the camera. That size was already the largest among all old 645 film bodies (judged by the flange-back distances), and is inappropriately big for a 44mmx33mm sensor. Because of the unnecessarily large flange-back distance, it's hard to make a good ultra-wide lens or an excellent wide lens, like those on the Fuji. This large camera body only makes (some) sense for a true 645 sensor. I really love my 645z, but I am very disappointed by the choices of wide/ultra-wide lenses on it, especially after comparing pictures taken with Pentax 25mm and Fuji 23mm side-by-side. I hope the next Pentax 645 camera (if there is one) can solve this. which you would it to be able to fix? Small size of the sensor compared to size of the camera, or smaller camera and better wide lenses? I could imagine that making bigger sensor would make camera it self quite a bit more expensive(that has said to be no problem by Ricoh - image quality first - not sure if they ment that), but it would make lenses little wider at the same time..

06-01-2019, 12:08 PM	#62
whwang Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 84	Originally posted by kaseki My perspective: Given the modern ability to stitch together images in post processing -- images potentially taken with medium-angle lenses that can always beat ultra-wide-angle lenses in lower non-uniformity, aberrations, and distortions -- ultra-wide lenses' role would seem to be more limited than before the age of massive processing power on one's desk. Ultra-wide angle might now only be necessary for certain dynamic scenes that wouldn't be normally taken with long telephoto lenses -- perhaps billowing sails seen from the sailboat's deck, huge flocks of flamingos taking flight, etc. My perspective should not be taken to infer that as a hobbyist, I would not enjoy a lens with an unusual quality; I do have an Arsenal fish-eye for my 645s, for example. Even more "fisheye" field width could be of interest (at used lens prices). But where does the desired scene boundary stop? Do I need 645 resolution when one of the Ricoh devices could provide an extreme image width for a single shot? Some very nice stitched panoramic examples may be seen in Glenn Randall's book, The Art, Science, and Craft of Great Landscape Photography. Actually I do that a lot. Really a lot. But, there is a limit: when your target moves. That happens when you have stars moving slowly on the sky while everything on the foreground is fixed. In such a case, it will be really hard to stitch multiple frames while giving each frame sufficient exposure time. Fortunately I don’t do this kind of photography very often, so I can live with the lack of good UltraWide, for now.

06-03-2019, 08:01 AM - 1 Like	#63
tuco Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Pugetopolis Posts: 11,024	Originally posted by whwang Actually I do that a lot. Really a lot. But, there is a limit: when your target moves. ... As a data point, I have a 3:1 pano camera. I love shooting it. And I can say, for me, stitching a pano together is far from the same experience as seeing your composition in a view finder and taking it in a single frame. But I'm referring to general photography and not specialized subjects like wide field astro photography.

06-06-2019, 04:58 AM - 2 Likes	#64
moroccanimager Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Morocco Posts: 47	There's not much wrong with the 645z. Operator improvement should always be at the fore.

06-06-2019, 09:39 AM	#65
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,390	Originally posted by moroccanimager There's not much wrong with the 645z. Operator improvement should always be at the fore. I resemble that remark! Both parts.

06-13-2019, 03:57 AM	#66
Manzur Fahim New Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Location: In front of my PC Photos: Albums Posts: 8	Pentax should release a 100MP version of 645z, mirrorless or not. It'll be good to see some competition on the MF market. Also they should release some new 645 lenses.

07-10-2019, 01:24 PM - 2 Likes	#67
Doppler9000 New Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 3	Originally posted by biz-engineer When I read online comments, I feel like people buy anything that is sold to them, whether is makes sense or not. People want what's trendy, like shirts, trousers etc. Not sure where you live, but in most of North America shirts and trousers are considered more than just a passing fancy. 🙂

07-10-2019, 02:35 PM	#68
TerryL Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Virginia, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 850	I'm waiting on the DFA 85mm lens. I'm also looking at the Fuji 50MP MF Mirrorless. At 2 lbs, that's hard to beat.

07-10-2019, 07:19 PM	#69
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,225	Originally posted by TerryL I'm waiting on the DFA 85mm lens. I'm also looking at the Fuji 50MP MF Mirrorless. At 2 lbs, that's hard to beat. Try the Fuji GFX50S before you buy. After being used to the K1, I felt the GFX50 very awkward to use, beside the clunky display, I couldn't see the entire frame in the viewfinder without removing glasses, which is no problem at all with my K1.

07-12-2019, 02:02 AM	#70
itshimitis Pentaxian Join Date: May 2011 Location: All over the place Posts: 3,535	I found the Fuji awkward without the grip attached. You lose the smaller size aspect then...

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07-12-2019, 07:25 PM	#71
Fcsnt54 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: California Posts: 621	Originally posted by TerryL I'm waiting on the DFA 85mm lens. I'm also looking at the Fuji 50MP MF Mirrorless. At 2 lbs, that's hard to beat. I've been happy with mine. Although I use the Fuji lenses most of the time, there's been cases I've been loving the 50s with a Pentax 43mm

07-13-2019, 09:08 PM - 2 Likes	#72
Zooland Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 370	Originally posted by Rondec I think this is a more useful link: Medium-format DSLRs are coming, and mirrorless converts will return! Ricoh Q&A from CP+ In particular, this quote, Takashi Arai: First of all, we'll continue the 645 line within the Pentax collection. But what we are going to compete against our [rivals with] is not the pricing, but the quality of the picture. [That's what's] most important within the camera. So we will still continue to study and produce a good camera with good image quality: That is also the same within the 645 medium-format line. Sounds pretty clear that Pentax will release a new medium format camera, the question is how long it takes to develop and what features they can put into it to make it stand out from the crowd. Pentax is different, they don’t pump out cameras like the others... They focus on quality which is why the 645z is still a spectacular camera.

07-24-2019, 02:59 PM	#74
bull drinkwater Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: pontiac mi. Posts: 392	for my $0.02 , the 645Z looks as about as good as it gets. BUT I can think of a few things it needs. 1 up the sensor to 75 mp. 2 add vertical and horizontal sweep panorama. 3 add 5 or 7 image adjustable spread HDR. Finish it off by addressing and correcting every bug discovered since it's introduction. call it the 645Z 2 XL

09-05-2019, 12:21 PM	#75
Irie Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 32	Originally posted by bull drinkwater for my $0.02 , the 645Z looks as about as good as it gets. BUT I can think of a few things it needs. 1 up the sensor to 75 mp. 2 add vertical and horizontal sweep panorama. 3 add 5 or 7 image adjustable spread HDR. Finish it off by addressing and correcting every bug discovered since it's introduction. call it the 645Z 2 XL And please ditch the metal PENTAX badge on the camera. The 645D looks so much better.