[Wasp]

Back in the day, Pentax made a big deal about how much more usable area a 6x7 negative had over a 6x6 negative. But I am still more of a Hasselblad guy as far as MF goes...

[barondla]

Leaf shutters are not all that bad. Since 1957 virtually all Hasselblad cameras are fitted with Carl Zeiss lenses that use leaf shutters.
Very few Hasselblad cameras use focal plane shutters, these cameras allow the use of faster lenses.

Larger negatives lead to a considerable IQ gain, the 6X6 120 format is 9 times larger than 24X36 mm from 35 mm film.

Agree, there's nothing wrong with leaf shutters. I've just heard through the years that Pentax 6x7 versions are finicky. Perhaps it's because of the complications caused by interfacing with a focal plane shutter? Could be I've heard wrong. But, leaf shutters can be fine. My Pentax Q premium lenses all have leaf shutters in them and they perform very well.
Thanks,
barondla

[johnha]

The 6x7 90mm leaf shutter lens can be used like any lens with the cameras focal plane shutter simply by not cocking it. It also has the advantage of allowing multiple exposures which the 6x7, 6x7 MLU & 67 cameras don't otherwise support. The lens is heavier than it otherwise would be and to use the leaf shutter, the body must be set to 1/8th or slower (apart from this, it works seemlessly on the 645D with the Pentax adapter).

Limitations of leaf shutter lenses include often slower max shutter speeds (often 1/500th), added cost & complexity of the lens and a slower max aperture. The best of both worlds is a focal plane shutter in the body and a leaf shutter in the lens...

[Silent Street]

There is a clear and meaningful distinction that must be noted between engaging leaf shutter mode and cocking the shutter - - two different, but essentially related actions. Engaging the leaf shutter is done by rotating the ring [on the LS lens] to a shutter speed marked; cocking the leaf shutter is physically pushing the lever down before each exposure. One thing cannot be done without the other, either way. The FP (camera) shutter must be set to 1/8s; any higher and it will not synchronise. Additionally note that the TTL meter is inoperative when and LS lens is operated in LS mode, nor can mirror lock-up be used.

I do not recommemd leaf shutter lenses for use by beginners with these cameras, because of the lack of clarity and understanding of their modus operandi and precautions in use (e.g. the 165mm LS cannot be used for multiple exposures as for the 90mm because of jamming, in some cases, irrecoverable). I see enough problems like this with Hasselblad users completely unfamiliar with and very often careless with them.

---------- Post added 2nd Jan 2020 at 04:09 PM ----------

Back in the day, Pentax made a big deal about how much more usable area a 6x7 negative had over a 6x6 negative. But I am still more of a Hasselblad guy as far as MF goes...

A lot of my pics are 6x7, of course! But then I crop to the much-loved, Hasselblad-flavoured 6x6 format for added sexiness! Yes, you can do wonders with 6x7...

---

Last edited by Silent Street; 01-01-2020 at 11:14 PM.

[barondla]

There is a clear and meaningful distinction that must be noted between engaging leaf shutter mode and cocking the shutter - - two different, but essentially related actions. Engaging the leaf shutter is done by rotating the ring [on the LS lens] to a shutter speed marked; cocking the leaf shutter is physically pushing the lever down before each exposure. One thing cannot be done without the other, either way. The FP (camera) shutter must be set to 1/8s; any higher and it will not synchronise. Additionally note that the TTL meter is inoperative when and LS lens is operated in LS mode, nor can mirror lock-up be used.

I do not recommemd leaf shutter lenses for use by beginners with these cameras, because of the lack of clarity and understanding of their modus operandi and precautions in use (e.g. the 165mm LS cannot be used for multiple exposures as for the 90mm because of jamming, in some cases, irrecoverable). I see enough problems like this with Hasselblad users completely unfamiliar with and very often careless with them.

---------- Post added 2nd Jan 2020 at 04:09 PM ----------




A lot of my pics are 6x7, of course! But then I crop to the much-loved, Hasselblad-flavouried 6x6 format for added sexiness! Yes, you can do wonders with 6x7...

Remember my boss having to fix Hasselblads for customers all the time. If I remember correctly, the lens would get permanently stuck on the camera because of some leaf shutter cocking error. Took a special tool to remove the lens.
Thanks,
barondla

[Fluegel]

Remember my boss having to fix Hasselblads for customers all the time. If I remember correctly, the lens would get permanently stuck on the camera because of some leaf shutter cocking error. Took a special tool to remove the lens.
Thanks,
barondla

I guess you do not remember the cause of a jammed camera correctly.
Most of the time this was caused by human error. Trying to fit a non cocked lens to a body often resulted in a jammed camera.
Could also be done by trying to fit a cocked lens to a non cocked body.
These situations will not occur when using camera and lenses the way they were meant to be used.

The release tool is nothing special. It is a a screwdriver fitted with a collar that prevents it from slipping of the release screw inside the camera.
Quite peculiar how stories about seized lenses and bodies still come up after all these years.

[Silent Street]

I guess you do not remember the cause of a jammed camera correctly.
Most of the time this was caused by human error. Trying to fit a non cocked lens to a body often resulted in a jammed camera.
Could also be done by trying to fit a cocked lens to a non cocked body.
These situations will not occur when using camera and lenses the way they were meant to be used.

The release tool is nothing special. It is a a screwdriver fitted with a collar that prevents it from slipping of the release screw inside the camera.
Quite peculiar how stories about seized lenses and bodies still come up after all these years.

The major problem is that MF beginners, salivating at the prospect of getting their hands on a Hasselblad, where once-upon-a-time the sheer cost was something to behold from a respectable distance, are not, and probably will not be educated correctly as to the modus operandi necessary to fit a lens on and off the way intended. I have seen this situation countless times to the point where perfectly good Hasselblad bodies have been physically held into a bench vice (!) and the infuriated owner, a beginner, no less, wrenching the body to free the lens! The camera and lens are thusly reduced to nothing.


You're right, these situations won't occur when the camera and lenses are used correctly. But they very commonly are not! And repairers where I am see a steady stream of "faulty", "not working" or "plainly stuck lense [sic]" Hassies, some of which have been attacked by anything form a bench vice (mentioned above), pliers, vice grips, etc... Instructions must, must, must, must be supplied by sellers of Hassies to any person unfamiliar with these cameras with the added advice, RTFM!!

[RICHARD L.]

Sorry, but someone said a 120 negative was "9 times" the size of a 24X36 negative. A Pentax 67 negative is 70 mm X 55 mm = 3850 square mm. A 35 mm Full-frame is 36 mm X 24 mm = 864 square mm. 3850 divided by 864 = 4.5 times, not 9 times.

[Silent Street]

Sorry, but someone said a 120 negative was "9 times" the size of a 24X36 negative. A Pentax 67 negative is 70 mm X 55 mm = 3850 square mm. A 35 mm Full-frame is 36 mm X 24 mm = 864 square mm. 3850 divided by 864 = 4.5 times, not 9 times.

Nine times does seem a bit imaginative.
Most of us don't bother with number crunching, happy to go with the statement that 6x7 is a cheerful 400% bigger than the postage stamp-sized 35mm!

[Wasp]

Nine times does seem a bit imaginative.
Most of us don't bother with number crunching, happy to go with the statement that 6x7 is a cheerful 400% bigger than the postage stamp-sized 35mm!

Let's not mention those diminutive newfangled APS films. Oops, I just did...

[Fluegel]

I am getting old, 6X6 actual size is 56X56 mm against 24X36 is a little less than 4 times larger.

Notwithstanding this error the IQ gain for MF is tremendous.

A friend who owned a Hasselblad camera and I compared dia film from a Hasselblad with shots from a Leica M4 with Summilux lens.
The shots were made in a wood with large contrast made with the Leica looked very nice.
The shots from the Hasselblad gave a 3D impression, it looked as if you could walk into the wood.

This ended my ownership of the Leica camera and started a long relationship with Hasselblad and Carl Zeiss lenses.

[RICHARD L.]

@ Fluegel : Sir, I didn't mean to disrespect you, I'm sorry if you feel this way ... As a previous poster said, the size of a 6X7 negative (70 mm X 55 mm) is 9 times the size of an APS-C sensor though. You are totally right when you say "one could feel he could walk into the picture", I noticed this impression many times with pictures I shot with a late model 55 mm f/4 wide-angle lens on 67 bodies. Best wishes for the New Year !

[johnha]

Nine times does seem a bit imaginative.
Most of us don't bother with number crunching, happy to go with the statement that 6x7 is a cheerful 400% bigger than the postage stamp-sized 35mm!

And much more of that 6x7 area is useable on a typical 10x8 print...

[Fluegel]

@ Fluegel : Sir, I didn't mean to disrespect you, I'm sorry if you feel this way ... As a previous poster said, the size of a 6X7 negative (70 mm X 55 mm) is 9 times the size of an APS-C sensor though. You are totally right when you say "one could feel he could walk into the picture", I noticed this impression many times with pictures I shot with a late model 55 mm f/4 wide-angle lens on 67 bodies. Best wishes for the New Year !

On the contrary Richard, I do not feel disrespected at all.
My memory did not serve me right. I made a silly mistake.
Glad you had the opportunity to see for yourself what image quality can be achieved with MF.

For the jobs I do, the recently bought K5ii serves me well.
Two great manual focus lenses, 50 and 100 mm A serie macro make me a happy user time and time again.

Poor souls that have to contend themselves with NICANS do not have the faintest Idea what they are missing.

The "M" thread is a worthy tribute to those older lenses.
Keep up the good work, this is a great forum.

[barondla]

If I remember correctly 120 film had another image quality advantage over 35mm. The film base is thinner which helps highlights. 35mm film was designed to be yanked through the machine at high speed and had to be tougher.

Thanks,
barondla