Vertical line across Pentax 67 negatives

ravenorxs · 12-01-2019, 08:04 PM

Hi folks,

I recently purchased a pentax 67 and have noticed these lines on the negative after development.

Has anybody seen this before and might know what the cause is?

Sometimes when I load the film and advance it, the arrow goes a little past the 120 mark before i close the film back. However, not all frames have this line issue.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

[IMG]

[/IMG]

torashi · 12-01-2019, 08:09 PM

Are they physically on the negatives, or is it from the scanning process?

ravenorxs · 12-01-2019, 08:12 PM

Physically on the negatives. I can see the lines very clearly when holding the neg up to a light source.

Could it be something is imprinting an "edge" to the negative out of sync with when the frame is being exposed?

My pressure plate is set at 120 as well as on the side

**mlt** · 12-01-2019, 08:20 PM

Are the film rollers, guide rails and pressure plate completely clean?

**mlt** · 12-01-2019, 08:26 PM

Dark scratches on print would indicate a scratch in the emulsion layer of the film. If not done in camera, then during the processing. Are they evenly spaced apart and in the same place on every negative?

ravenorxs · 12-01-2019, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by mlt

Are the film rollers, guide rails and pressure plate completely clean?

As far as I can tell. I've given them a quick wipe just the same.

I'm going to try to be right on the 120 indicator when loading the film and see how that works.

Edit: Just do add, I'm trying to visualize what could cause the entire line to show up on the negative vertically. Since the guide rails are at the top and bottom, I'm inclined to thing it's either an issue with the pressure plate or more likely the rollers. The strange thing thing is that there is no 'pressure' mark on the negative where the line is. If i look at the from the back of the emulsion side, the whole negative is smooth (no indentation for the line). Given that, I'm not sure if it's physical debris making the issue.

Medex · 12-01-2019, 11:40 PM

Your camera has horizontal shutter. It seems to me that sliding window during shooting process could be slowed down for a very short time. It causes some underexposure (darker lines as well as a little darker part of the frame). This is only my opinion.

ravenorxs · 12-01-2019, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by Medex

Your camera has horizontal shutter. It seems to me that sliding window during shooting process could be slowed down for a very short time. It causes some underexposure (darker lines as well as a little darker part of the frame). This is only my opinion.

Thank you for that. I did not realize that could be an issue. If so, do you know what a fix might be?

Silent Street · 12-02-2019, 12:39 AM

"After development", on the negatives, suggests to me that the film has been tightly wound in the developer and creates this banding effect. This is common in many labs with automated developing processors and lax oversight. I am not convinced this is a shutter or camera fault.

The horizontal-travel focal plane shutter of the Pentax 6x7 and Pentax 67 cameras is robust for its purpose, only giving trouble through extended age (problems often show up in the old and heavily used Pentax 6x7 cameras), very heavy (ex-professional) use or abuse. In the older Pentax 6x7 camera (1969), the tape over the shutter band was known to come off, giving rise to the shutter jamming and potentially crimping if interfered with; this sort of age-related problem is not user-serviceable.

The camera's pressure plate is benign but should be checked for any foreign residue on its surface. DO NOT touch the frame counter roller to the left of the take-up spool -- this is very sensitive to interference.

The fault you have I think is with the processor, not the camera, and I would be on the trail of checking this out by running at least two more rolls of film through the camera, with one roll going to the lab you usually take it to, and another going to a different lab.

There is no point sweating over the alignment of the START mark on the film leader.

johnha · 12-02-2019, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by Silent Street

There is no point sweating over the alignment of the START mark on the film leader.

Yes, mine rarely lines up - when I first bought the 6x7 if it was short of the start mark, I fiddle to line it up and ended up losing the first frame.

A shutter fault may display as uneven exposure but I can't see how it could create a vertical line.

ravenorxs · 12-02-2019, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by Silent Street

The fault you have I think is with the processor, not the camera, and I would be on the trail of checking this out by running at least two more rolls of film through the camera, with one roll going to the lab you usually take it to, and another going to a different lab.

That is an easy enough test. Will try to send to two different labs and see what the results are.

torashi · 12-02-2019, 11:37 AM

Yes, a lab change is definitely a start. I've had something similar happen to me when my 4x5" tank was acting up and I couldn't fill it in quick and evenly enough.

**pentaxus** · 12-02-2019, 12:43 PM

Another vote for a lab problem. It is tough to visualize how the camera could do that.

leekil · 12-02-2019, 03:04 PM

Does the line go to the edge of the film -- outside of the picture area? If yes, then it is more likely a lab/development issue.

Originally posted by johnha

A shutter fault may display as uneven exposure but I can't see how it could create a vertical line.

The 67 has a horizontal shutter, so it could create a vertical line.

Medex · 12-02-2019, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by ravenorxs

Thank you for that. I did not realize that could be an issue. If so, do you know what a fix might be?

Could you say, what exposure time was in the first picture? I would like to guess - 1/50 s.

12-01-2019, 08:04 PM	#1
ravenorxs Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 102	Vertical line across Pentax 67 negatives Hi folks, I recently purchased a pentax 67 and have noticed these lines on the negative after development. Has anybody seen this before and might know what the cause is? Sometimes when I load the film and advance it, the arrow goes a little past the 120 mark before i close the film back. However, not all frames have this line issue. [IMG][/IMG] [IMG][/IMG]

12-01-2019, 08:33 PM	#6
ravenorxs Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 102 Original Poster	Originally posted by mlt Are the film rollers, guide rails and pressure plate completely clean? As far as I can tell. I've given them a quick wipe just the same. I'm going to try to be right on the 120 indicator when loading the film and see how that works. Edit: Just do add, I'm trying to visualize what could cause the entire line to show up on the negative vertically. Since the guide rails are at the top and bottom, I'm inclined to thing it's either an issue with the pressure plate or more likely the rollers. The strange thing thing is that there is no 'pressure' mark on the negative where the line is. If i look at the from the back of the emulsion side, the whole negative is smooth (no indentation for the line). Given that, I'm not sure if it's physical debris making the issue. Last edited by ravenorxs; 12-01-2019 at 08:58 PM.

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12-01-2019, 08:09 PM	#2
torashi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Medellín Posts: 1,322	Are they physically on the negatives, or is it from the scanning process?

12-01-2019, 08:12 PM	#3
ravenorxs Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 102 Original Poster	Physically on the negatives. I can see the lines very clearly when holding the neg up to a light source. Could it be something is imprinting an "edge" to the negative out of sync with when the frame is being exposed? My pressure plate is set at 120 as well as on the side

12-01-2019, 08:20 PM	#4
mlt Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,159	Are the film rollers, guide rails and pressure plate completely clean?

12-01-2019, 08:26 PM	#5
mlt Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,159	Dark scratches on print would indicate a scratch in the emulsion layer of the film. If not done in camera, then during the processing. Are they evenly spaced apart and in the same place on every negative?

12-01-2019, 11:40 PM	#7
Medex Pentaxian Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vilnius Posts: 1,020	Your camera has horizontal shutter. It seems to me that sliding window during shooting process could be slowed down for a very short time. It causes some underexposure (darker lines as well as a little darker part of the frame). This is only my opinion.

12-01-2019, 11:57 PM	#8
ravenorxs Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 102 Original Poster	Originally posted by Medex Your camera has horizontal shutter. It seems to me that sliding window during shooting process could be slowed down for a very short time. It causes some underexposure (darker lines as well as a little darker part of the frame). This is only my opinion. Thank you for that. I did not realize that could be an issue. If so, do you know what a fix might be?

12-02-2019, 12:39 AM	#9
Silent Street Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Castlemaine, Victoria, AUS Photos: Albums Posts: 1,151	"After development", on the negatives, suggests to me that the film has been tightly wound in the developer and creates this banding effect. This is common in many labs with automated developing processors and lax oversight. I am not convinced this is a shutter or camera fault. The horizontal-travel focal plane shutter of the Pentax 6x7 and Pentax 67 cameras is robust for its purpose, only giving trouble through extended age (problems often show up in the old and heavily used Pentax 6x7 cameras), very heavy (ex-professional) use or abuse. In the older Pentax 6x7 camera (1969), the tape over the shutter band was known to come off, giving rise to the shutter jamming and potentially crimping if interfered with; this sort of age-related problem is not user-serviceable. The camera's pressure plate is benign but should be checked for any foreign residue on its surface. DO NOT touch the frame counter roller to the left of the take-up spool -- this is very sensitive to interference. The fault you have I think is with the processor, not the camera, and I would be on the trail of checking this out by running at least two more rolls of film through the camera, with one roll going to the lab you usually take it to, and another going to a different lab. There is no point sweating over the alignment of the START mark on the film leader.

12-02-2019, 02:02 AM	#10
johnha Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Lancashire, UK Photos: Albums Posts: 1,155	Originally posted by Silent Street There is no point sweating over the alignment of the START mark on the film leader. Yes, mine rarely lines up - when I first bought the 6x7 if it was short of the start mark, I fiddle to line it up and ended up losing the first frame. A shutter fault may display as uneven exposure but I can't see how it could create a vertical line.

12-02-2019, 10:12 AM	#11
ravenorxs Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 102 Original Poster	Originally posted by Silent Street The fault you have I think is with the processor, not the camera, and I would be on the trail of checking this out by running at least two more rolls of film through the camera, with one roll going to the lab you usually take it to, and another going to a different lab. That is an easy enough test. Will try to send to two different labs and see what the results are.

12-02-2019, 11:37 AM	#12
torashi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Location: Medellín Posts: 1,322	Yes, a lab change is definitely a start. I've had something similar happen to me when my 4x5" tank was acting up and I couldn't fill it in quick and evenly enough.

12-02-2019, 12:43 PM	#13
pentaxus Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Central Coast, CA Posts: 1,313	Another vote for a lab problem. It is tough to visualize how the camera could do that.

12-02-2019, 03:04 PM	#14
leekil Pentaxian Join Date: May 2016 Photos: Albums Posts: 2,003	Does the line go to the edge of the film -- outside of the picture area? If yes, then it is more likely a lab/development issue. Originally posted by johnha A shutter fault may display as uneven exposure but I can't see how it could create a vertical line. The 67 has a horizontal shutter, so it could create a vertical line.

12-02-2019, 11:07 PM	#15
Medex Pentaxian Join Date: May 2013 Location: Vilnius Posts: 1,020	Originally posted by ravenorxs Thank you for that. I did not realize that could be an issue. If so, do you know what a fix might be? Could you say, what exposure time was in the first picture? I would like to guess - 1/50 s.