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03-12-2020, 01:36 AM   #1
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Avoiding mirror vibration

When using the 645Z on a tripod what is the best way to deal with mirror shock? Use 3 second setting and wireless remote? Or, use wired remote and mechanical mirror lockup?
thanks,
barondla

03-12-2020, 02:21 AM - 2 Likes   #2
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I use a mix of both MLU arrangements. I find the 3 second timer to be sufficient with focal lengths under 150mm, for focal lengths above that I think a longer interval is required for the whole camera system to settle* so manual lock up is ideal. Also while hand holding the 645Z** I double the shutter speed/focal length rule to mitigate errant sharpness robbing vibrations.

*This is again entirely dependent upon the qualities of your particular tripod setup.

** of course this has little to no impact when I'm using the camera with studio lighting with leaf shutter lenses.
03-12-2020, 07:49 AM - 2 Likes   #3
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I primarily shoot landscape with my 645z, so it's often on a tripod, but even with that, I still use the manual mirror lockup. If I've spent the money and time to justify medium format, might as well do everything I can to make sure the image is as good as possible.
03-12-2020, 09:07 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I use a mix of both MLU arrangements. I find the 3 second timer to be sufficient with focal lengths under 150mm, for focal lengths above that I think a longer interval is required for the whole camera system to settle* so manual lock up is ideal. Also while hand holding the 645Z** I double the shutter speed/focal length rule to mitigate errant sharpness robbing vibrations.

*This is again entirely dependent upon the qualities of your particular tripod setup.

** of course this has little to no impact when I'm using the camera with studio lighting with leaf shutter lenses.
Hadn't considered using both. Good plan.

---------- Post added 03-12-20 at 11:18 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by SteveinSLC Quote
I primarily shoot landscape with my 645z, so it's often on a tripod, but even with that, I still use the manual mirror lockup. If I've spent the money and time to justify medium format, might as well do everything I can to make sure the image is as good as possible.
Plan on using mirror lock up (my last medium format experience was the Pentax 6X7). Was just weighing the benefits of wireless and nothing touching the camera vs wired but longer than 3 second delay. Also, the wireless remote is more convenient since it stores in the strap. Love that Pentax strap. Pentax should bring it back out and add a 6 second wireless delay option.
Thanks,
barondla

03-12-2020, 11:23 AM - 1 Like   #5
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I use a heavy Manfrotto 028 tripod, MLU and I press downward on the camera and lens with my hands to dampen any vibration. Watch for wind bursts and use a shield against it if possible. Lower the tripod to its lowest position if its feasable too.


Regards,
Richard
03-12-2020, 01:55 PM - 1 Like   #6
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I haven’t had problems at any shutter speed or focal length with my Gitzo Mountaineer GT3532 tripod and Arca ball head. I used to have problems with my Bogen, which is the big one—and I still use big Bogens (Manfrottos) with large-format cameras. I followed the same strategy with my Pentax 67 as Richard describes.

With the 645z, I use mirror pre-release out of habit, but to be honest I’ve never been able to see any improvement from it, or from the 3-second timer. Most of my Kennecott Copper Mill photos were shutter speeds of a second or longer, and I used only mirror pre-release. Not a hint of motion in any of them. That’s using the Gitzo.

Most of the vibration on the 67 is from the first curtain opening, not from the mirror. A strong tripod is really necessary, plus damping strategies, plus avoiding shutter speeds from 1/15 to maybe 1/60.

Tape a laser pointer onto the camera, and project the beam onto a wall 30 feet away. Watch the spot wiggle (a helper will be needed) with different strategies. That will help identify the beast approach with your tripod.

Rick “who always thought Gitzo was overhyped until buying this one” Denney
03-12-2020, 09:47 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
I haven’t had problems at any shutter speed or focal length with my Gitzo Mountaineer GT3532 tripod and Arca ball head. I used to have problems with my Bogen, which is the big one—and I still use big Bogens (Manfrottos) with large-format cameras. I followed the same strategy with my Pentax 67 as Richard describes.

With the 645z, I use mirror pre-release out of habit, but to be honest I’ve never been able to see any improvement from it, or from the 3-second timer. Most of my Kennecott Copper Mill photos were shutter speeds of a second or longer, and I used only mirror pre-release. Not a hint of motion in any of them. That’s using the Gitzo.

Most of the vibration on the 67 is from the first curtain opening, not from the mirror. A strong tripod is really necessary, plus damping strategies, plus avoiding shutter speeds from 1/15 to maybe 1/60.

Tape a laser pointer onto the camera, and project the beam onto a wall 30 feet away. Watch the spot wiggle (a helper will be needed) with different strategies. That will help identify the beast approach with your tripod.

Rick “who always thought Gitzo was overhyped until buying this one” Denney
I hadn't heard of the laser pointer test. Great idea. I'll grab the laser level I use for loudspeaker set up.

Ah Gitzo...have 4 of them. All 25+ years old. The 645Z sits on Gilux Studex legs (about 7.5 lbs) and the original big Arca Swiss ball head. Solid and precise.

This brings up the question of what Arca QR plates to get for the 645? None of my other cameras take 2 so I have a mix of brands. They are just slightly different widths, so I'm always messing with the clamp adjustment when switching camera orientation.

Thanks,
barondla

03-13-2020, 01:14 AM - 1 Like   #8
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I should also mention that I work with a Berlebach report 432 with a Manfrotto 405MG Geared Head as a light weight kit, and also with a Berlebach UNI 9 with the Arca swiss Cube tripod head for heavier stuff.
03-13-2020, 04:25 AM - 1 Like   #9
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My Manfrotto 028 always worked great with its standard 128 head. I got this 12 pound tripod in 1991 and used it with my Pentax 67 and later 67 II for years without any trouble. The 67 II + M* 300 mm lens weighed 7 pounds and I never missed a picture with this combination. The M* performed best at f/8, so that gave me provision for a higher shutter speed. The Manfrotto also performed beautifully with the 645N and the new 645Z + FA 400 mm f/5.6. The 645 lenses all perform best at f/11, so I have to use whatever shutter speed the light level dictates but I can always up my ISO setting (never above ISO 400 though) with the 645Z. MLU helps a lot, I think, as well as a cable or remote release.

Richard
03-13-2020, 06:30 AM - 1 Like   #10
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Interesting, I'll have to try the laser pointer. I've got a strong(probably technically illegal) one I use for astro.

I've got a Gitzo Mountaineer with a big RRS head, and it seems fine. Normally use the IR remote for triggering on the tripod. Taking a wire out of the equation means one less thing that can disturb the photo.
03-13-2020, 08:26 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by RICHARD L. Quote
I use a heavy Manfrotto 028 tripod, MLU and I press downward on the camera and lens with my hands to dampen any vibration. Watch for wind bursts and use a shield against it if possible. Lower the tripod to its lowest position if its feasable too.


Regards,
Richard
Good advice!

I do the same and for my two biggest lenses (K1000/8 & 6x7 600/4 used with their native cameras) I use the following:

Manfrotto 028B Triman tripod, a Manfrotto 229 3D super pro head and a Manfrotto 359 long lens support for the camera end. (MLU on the camera & a cable release)

Phil.
03-13-2020, 10:44 AM   #12
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The laser pointer idea is brilliant...thanks.
03-13-2020, 04:31 PM - 4 Likes   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
Tape a laser pointer onto the camera, and project the beam onto a wall 30 feet away. Watch the spot wiggle
I use a shot glass filled to the brim with water, carefully balanced on the hot shoe: If the surface shows any perturbations when you fire the shutter with/without mirror lock up then there are sharpness robbing vibrations...if the whole glass falls off then you have bigger problems, several in fact.

Last edited by Digitalis; 03-13-2020 at 08:05 PM.
03-14-2020, 08:51 AM - 1 Like   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I use a shot glass filled to the brim with water, carefully balanced on the hot shoe: If the surface shows any perturbations when you fire the shutter with/without mirror lock up then there are sharpness robbing vibrations...if the whole glass falls off then you have bigger problems, several in fact.
High quality scotch is better than water for this scenario. As a preliminary, however, some number of shots should be imbibed. I always played better pool after a couple of drinks.

In post, make sure that more shots are drunk prior to final viewing of the images. They'll typically look much better.
03-14-2020, 09:02 AM   #15
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Thanks, guys, for making my morning end a laughing one.
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