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06-15-2020, 10:47 PM - 1 Like   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
Thanks, mate.

Yeah, I am pretty much 100% a landscape / astro guy, so it is what it is!

Actually, you're wrong about zooms. The 28-45mm on the 645Z is one of my main tools for the job ;-)

I have a feeling that Pentax Philippines won't deem a replacement worthwhile - I say this because C.R. Kennedy feel that the mount is the only problem and they could have replaced it themselves. The problem is that they don't have the tools to make sure the alignment is perfect, so want to fall back on Pentax for that reason (though I suspect this is partly a diplomatic response; I think Pentax need to see the damage so they can take it up with their shipping/courier provider). If what C.R. Kennedy is saying is entirely correct, that suggests the damage might not be so bad. But, as you say, who knows - Pentax may take a more serious view. I really do think that a replacement should be provided. After all, I sent a professional camera for a repair, and it got smashed up badly on their watch. So why not? Partly to avoid future issues arising and partly to maintain their reputation. But what do I know?

Still, we shall see...

Thanks again,
Ed
Ed, On ebay there are a couple of 645z cameras available with low shutter counts out of Japan, for a very decent price. After reading what happened to you I am seriously thinking of getting a second body 645z. My only hold-back is that I am hoping for the mark II version to come out with a 645 full frame, which I would rather prefer for a second (or first) body.

06-15-2020, 11:13 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
If it all goes south I will speak to my contact on your behalf, because I think you'd be within your rights for a tribunal hearing favouring your perspective, but this is a sour route to take and makes future correspondence harder. I kinda love/hate CR Kennedy in that they do pretty good by us, but they are also a monopoly for us Pentaxians.

And oh.. I only meant that a K-new with a DFA 150-450 will put the 645Z to shame for bird shooting, but that's not what the 645Z was intended for, I was getting at the idea of trying to find a different genre of photography to 'get the blood flowing' that might nurse the wounds should a certain camera fall prey and leave a hole in the heart.

I actually find it weird that a photographer can be narrow with their pursuits, I'm very much like a kid in a candy store wanting to do and know all forms of photographic pursuits but lack patience, funds and time to do them any justice (so its probably very wise to be a master of one genre ).

Thanks so much, Bruce. That's so kind of you. As you say, probably best save that approach as a last resort - but I'll certainly come back to you if it seems necessary. For now, I am hopeful that the solution offered by C.R. Kennedy will work out.

I fully agree that other sorts of camera are much better suited to other sorts of photography. I admire your breadth of vision and approach. AND I very much appreciate your kind attempt to soothe my pain by offering alternatives; if makes a lot of sense. I look at different sorts of photography, see the results and often wish I were more adaptable/creative. But I know what I do well, and have grown to be content with that... While striving to add new elements to it when I can (e.g. a decade ago, I had never shot an astro shot; now I am obsessed with it!).

All the best,
Ed

---------- Post added 06-16-20 at 04:14 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by TDvN57 Quote
Ed, On ebay there are a couple of 645z cameras available with low shutter counts out of Japan, for a very decent price. After reading what happened to you I am seriously thinking of getting a second body 645z. My only hold-back is that I am hoping for the mark II version to come out with a 645 full frame, which I would rather prefer for a second (or first) body.
Good thought! I would love to do the same... It will have to wait though - young kids are bad for the cashflow (and, I fear, old ones will be too) ;-)
06-16-2020, 02:43 AM - 1 Like   #123
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Hello Ed !

I'm sorry about the ordeal you are going through. Personally I'm only interested in landscape photography too and I always carry a Pentax K1 + DFA 28-105 mm as a back-up. I came to really appreciate this new FF body, so much so that most of my pictures were taken with it on my 2019 U.S. tour (California, Nevada, Arizona). You should investigate the K1, I'm sure you could take great images with it too.

Best of luck and best regards,

Richard.
06-16-2020, 03:21 AM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
Thanks so much, Bruce. That's so kind of you. As you say, probably best save that approach as a last resort - but I'll certainly come back to you if it seems necessary. For now, I am hopeful that the solution offered by C.R. Kennedy will work out.

I fully agree that other sorts of camera are much better suited to other sorts of photography. I admire your breadth of vision and approach. AND I very much appreciate your kind attempt to soothe my pain by offering alternatives; if makes a lot of sense. I look at different sorts of photography, see the results and often wish I were more adaptable/creative. But I know what I do well, and have grown to be content with that... While striving to add new elements to it when I can (e.g. a decade ago, I had never shot an astro shot; now I am obsessed with it!).

All the best,
Ed

---------- Post added 06-16-20 at 04:14 PM ----------



Good thought! I would love to do the same... It will have to wait though - young kids are bad for the cashflow (and, I fear, old ones will be too) ;-)
Maybe this is the wrong place to post this question, but I figure it's semi somewhat relevant here seeing as we're talking about back up bodies. What about picking up a 645D? These can be had for 'fairly cheap' can they not? I'm thinking 2021 might see me ditch the K-1 and go for a K-new + 645 combo, however I know my wallets and funds are tight so thought I would start off with a 645D and work my way towards a Z.

How do you fine chaps find the 645D vs Z? Is there a good place to find comparisons with these two cams?

I bring this up because a 645D can take all the same glass as a 645Z yeah? Thus I understand the cost of owning two 645Z's is overkill, is it unreasonable to get a D as a back up? Also the CCD sensor of the D might prove an interesting alternative to some situations/shots?

06-16-2020, 03:38 AM   #125
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At first, 3 years ago, I planned to purchase a used 645D. But it was difficult to obtain the real "shutter count" from the sellers. When I later learned the 645D shutter was rated at only 50 000 actuations, I got a 645Z demo instead with only 136 actuations on it. The 645Z is rated at 100 000 actuations and many won't even reach this number, though some will go over it.

Regards

P.S. And yes they use the same lenses (67 and 645).

Last edited by RICHARD L.; 06-16-2020 at 03:46 AM.
06-16-2020, 03:56 AM - 1 Like   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Maybe this is the wrong place to post this question, but I figure it's semi somewhat relevant here seeing as we're talking about back up bodies. What about picking up a 645D? These can be had for 'fairly cheap' can they not? I'm thinking 2021 might see me ditch the K-1 and go for a K-new + 645 combo, however I know my wallets and funds are tight so thought I would start off with a 645D and work my way towards a Z.

How do you fine chaps find the 645D vs Z? Is there a good place to find comparisons with these two cams?

I bring this up because a 645D can take all the same glass as a 645Z yeah? Thus I understand the cost of owning two 645Z's is overkill, is it unreasonable to get a D as a back up? Also the CCD sensor of the D might prove an interesting alternative to some situations/shots?

Hi Bruce,

In many ways, the 645D is a good option. I had one before getting my Z, and still have that body - albeit it's the other side of the world, sitting largely disused in my mother's house in England; the body developed some issues (most of the buttons stopped working properly - I suspect it needed a new keypad or something - probably repairable at relatively minor cost). For my landscape stuff, it's a good alternative - resolution that's nearly as high, nice colours, compatibility with all the same lenses. It's rudimentary in operation - no live view, slower write/review speeds, etc. - but perfectly fine when used at low ISO. Dynamic range is much lower than in the Z, so expect to make greater use of bracketing, grads, processing, etc. to balance exposures. But its main limitation for me is its utter unsuitability for astro photography. Performance at high ISOs is much worse than the Z, to the point of my not considering it viable for any Milky Way or wide sky shot. And for star trails, it's use is almost impossible in most cases - partly due to the same high ISO issue, because of the slower write speed and - most crucially - because of its dark frame behaviour. One cannot turn dark frames off (despite the menu suggesting that you can), and they kick in based on some algorithm that considers exposure length, ISO and temperature. A dark frame is lethal for star trails, as it produces gaps in the trails. Given that astro is a critical part of my shooting, the D is simply a non-option - so when it required repairs, I didn't bother getting them done, even though it was a good back-up body for my other landscape work. I probably should get it sent to me and fixed up; at least I could keep shooting landscapes if the Z needs repairs again. I am already acting on this plan, having asked my mother to pack it up and send it to me.

If your main work is low ISO landscapes and you can get a 645D for a good price (in good condition), then it's a very good back-up option to the Z. If you do astro, or other high ISO (or rapid-fire) work, I wouldn't bother with it. Don't forget that the D is a relatively old model these days, and the shutter is rated for fewer actuations, so you need to be sure any you buy is in good shape. Oh, and if you care about live view or quick preview/write speeds, you will find the D problematic. But those issues can usually be tolerated for landscape work, in a back-up body.

Hope this helps,
Ed
06-16-2020, 06:00 AM - 1 Like   #127
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Hi,

I was figuring on saying pretty much what Ed has already said. My thoughts coming as I read thru all the updates this morning.

I recently picked up a good used D just for landscape style work. I would keep it should I upgrade, which I probably will. And, I do have a friend into Astro shooting who is trying to get me into it as well. I sit here imagining the look on his face if I came out with a Z. He already has MF envy having seen the D. But, he knows the CCD isn't up to it. I'd get a Z, not tell him it was now a Z, and join him one evening and let him see the results. Ha! That's worth buying a Z right there! :P

Here's to the speedy return of the Z from Pentax. Maybe they will decide to replace it. I spent decades on the returned product side of a major R+D outfit and so was into such things both from a manufacturing fault as well as a repair center side of things. If it were me, I'd keep the damaged unit for evidence as I tracked down just what happened and when. I would just send out a new one as a result. That's better for goodwill anyway. And, many things I was responsible for were a lot more costly than a 645Z. And, some were a lot less costly, too, but I did the same regardless. But, that's me and I am not working for Pentax. But, maybe there is some hope for a replacement unit....

Stan
06-16-2020, 06:34 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
Hi Bruce,

In many ways, the 645D is a good option. I had one before getting my Z, and still have that body - albeit it's the other side of the world, sitting largely disused in my mother's house in England; the body developed some issues (most of the buttons stopped working properly - I suspect it needed a new keypad or something - probably repairable at relatively minor cost). For my landscape stuff, it's a good alternative - resolution that's nearly as high, nice colours, compatibility with all the same lenses. It's rudimentary in operation - no live view, slower write/review speeds, etc. - but perfectly fine when used at low ISO. Dynamic range is much lower than in the Z, so expect to make greater use of bracketing, grads, processing, etc. to balance exposures. But its main limitation for me is its utter unsuitability for astro photography. Performance at high ISOs is much worse than the Z, to the point of my not considering it viable for any Milky Way or wide sky shot. And for star trails, it's use is almost impossible in most cases - partly due to the same high ISO issue, because of the slower write speed and - most crucially - because of its dark frame behaviour. One cannot turn dark frames off (despite the menu suggesting that you can), and they kick in based on some algorithm that considers exposure length, ISO and temperature. A dark frame is lethal for star trails, as it produces gaps in the trails. Given that astro is a critical part of my shooting, the D is simply a non-option - so when it required repairs, I didn't bother getting them done, even though it was a good back-up body for my other landscape work. I probably should get it sent to me and fixed up; at least I could keep shooting landscapes if the Z needs repairs again. I am already acting on this plan, having asked my mother to pack it up and send it to me.

If your main work is low ISO landscapes and you can get a 645D for a good price (in good condition), then it's a very good back-up option to the Z. If you do astro, or other high ISO (or rapid-fire) work, I wouldn't bother with it. Don't forget that the D is a relatively old model these days, and the shutter is rated for fewer actuations, so you need to be sure any you buy is in good shape. Oh, and if you care about live view or quick preview/write speeds, you will find the D problematic. But those issues can usually be tolerated for landscape work, in a back-up body.

Hope this helps,
Ed
Sounds like you might have a future 645D sale if that's what you want, I'm just up the road

07-03-2020, 03:44 PM   #129
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update??

what is the status??
07-04-2020, 06:52 AM   #130
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I realize that the shipping mishap theory seems hard to swallow, but I had a customer send me a DA 300 for screw drive conversion. The box appeared to be good just a few minor marks on it.

Inside was a lens with a bent filter and a shattered front element.

Further inspection showed tiny holes in the box that went not only through the outer box but several layers of cardboard inner box and padding. The working theory is that there was some type of strong metal rod packed badly that punctured the box.

USPS eventually paid the insurance to the customer.

So I can - after this experience - understand how a camera could be damaged and the box it was shipped in might not show much damage and the body cap might show little damage also. Stranger things can happen.

Good luck and I hope the loaner keeps you shooting!
07-06-2020, 07:10 PM - 1 Like   #131
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Hello chaps!

The status hasn't changed as yet. I am still using the loaner (seamlessly dropped into my workflow like an old friend). Have so far not heard back on my own camera. But with the loaner in hand, I won't worry too much about it ;-)

When/if I hear more about what happened, I'll let you all know...

---------- Post added 07-07-20 at 12:11 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Sounds like you might have a future 645D sale if that's what you want, I'm just up the road
Hi Bruce,

Well, I don't think I would ever sell it, but happy to let you use it once I have it (and it's been repaired). So far, it's still in my Mum's house in England!
07-29-2020, 12:49 AM - 1 Like   #132
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Quick update: my camera is back with C.R. Kennedy in Australia, having made its second trip to the Philippines to be repaired following the damage-in-transit on its way home from the first repair.

Here's a description of what needed to be done:
"The impact damage on the camera consisted of damage to the bayonet ring, front cover and the sensor. The technicians replaced all of those components as required. Exposure/focus and collimation were all checked/tested/adjusted as necessary using the service jigs/tools. After the repair was completed by one technician the supervisor of the department then rechecked and confirmed the camera is now working to specification."

So the camera now has a new shutter (from the first repair), new sensor, new lens mount and new front cover. Quite a list! You'd have thought a replacement camera would have been an easier and more viable solution, but that's not what was done... The work has (of course) a warranty on it. So, with a bit of luck, the camera should now keep going for many years to come. Needless to say, I will be doing some vigorous testing to make sure once I have camera back in my paws. When it's with the Sydney branch of C.R. Kennedy, I will be going in to give back the loaner and receive my camera back.

There never has been any explanation of how the damage could have occurred. How it could have been hit hard enough to do such damage without leaving any marks on the packaging. Etc Etc. C.R. Kennedy have taken full responsibility for this throughout and I must say their response has been impeccable... I very much doubt that they have been able to recoup the cost of the new repairs from Pentax or the shipping people, so they will have had quite a bill to pay given the extent of the repairs!

Hopefully it will prove to be in perfect working order both now and long into the future!

To those of you who were curious, I will check the shutter count once I have the camera and see if it was reset following the installation of the new shutter.
07-29-2020, 01:04 AM   #133
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Last week I heard a huge crash and bang outside my front door. My immediate thought was what was that!! It was Fastway Couriers delivering something from Amazon AU.


It is hard to hear things through my front door, so the parcel was thrown from a distance. I would look towards couriers.
07-29-2020, 01:08 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by TheDocAUS Quote
Last week I heard a huge crash and bang outside my front door. My immediate thought was what was that!! It was Fastway Couriers delivering something from Amazon AU.

It is hard to hear things through my front door, so the parcel was thrown from a distance. I would look towards couriers.

Crazy!

Nonetheless, you'd think a blow enough to do such damage to a well-packaged camera within a box would leave some mark on the box. I have no way of knowing what the packaging was like on the Philippines - Melbourne leg, whether the camera may have sustained damage within the Pentax facility before being packaged, etc etc. I suspect it will never be solved. But at least it has been fixed at no cost to me, with a loaner provided in the meantime...
07-29-2020, 01:16 AM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
I very much doubt that they have been able to recoup the cost of the new repairs from Pentax or the shipping people, so they will have had quite a bill to pay given the extent of the repairs!
I hope the shipping company or their insurers covered this. We hear too many tales of unprofessional behaviour; they should be responsible.
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