[BruceBanner]

The warranty thing is a good point, for sure. I will check!

As for the cost, I too think it's reasonable for equipment like the Z. If I get as much life/use out of the new one as I got from the original, I will consider myself well served. But the cost isn't justified in my head because it has to go abroad (that's not my fault but a result of the decisions made by Pentax / Hoya / C.R. Kennedy about where to have their repair facilities). It just seems a fair price for such a significant repair to equipment like this...

I used you as an example today in a FB Pentax group post about the newly announced DFA 85. Precision Camera seems to be the USA dealer for warranty and repairs for Pentax equipment, but as of yet the DA * 11-18 and DFA 50 have been left off as being lenses they will service... Seeing as Precision Camera suffers such bad reviews/reputation there have been warnings over buying the DFA 85...

I don't really understand it, as long as there is a Pentax 'HQ' in your country of origin to reach out too in terms of post sale camera/lens service I would have thought that is enough. Where the product travels to get repaired I wouldn't care and find a semi reasonable expectation. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, they all have a major presence in the east more than the west?

Imo it only sucks because it's a necessary evil (more waiting times) and right now during Covid season it triply sucks!

Did I mention how my Pentax A24/2.8 lens posted late April is still not in Germany to my buyer? Australia could not at all fly it out and it's only just now been put on a boat. He's expected to wait another 60 days.... LOL!

[RICHARD L.]

Just out of curiosity, Ed, what was your shutter count when this catastrophic failure happened ?

Richard

[Ed Hurst]

I used you as an example today in a FB Pentax group post about the newly announced DFA 85. Precision Camera seems to be the USA dealer for warranty and repairs for Pentax equipment, but as of yet the DA * 11-18 and DFA 50 have been left off as being lenses they will service... Seeing as Precision Camera suffers such bad reviews/reputation there have been warnings over buying the DFA 85...

I don't really understand it, as long as there is a Pentax 'HQ' in your country of origin to reach out too in terms of post sale camera/lens service I would have thought that is enough. Where the product travels to get repaired I wouldn't care and find a semi reasonable expectation. Canon, Nikon, Pentax, they all have a major presence in the east more than the west?

Imo it only sucks because it's a necessary evil (more waiting times) and right now during Covid season it triply sucks!

Did I mention how my Pentax A24/2.8 lens posted late April is still not in Germany to my buyer? Australia could not at all fly it out and it's only just now been put on a boat. He's expected to wait another 60 days.... LOL!

I suppose there is some cost involved in maintaining a facility to deal with the public within a given country, to accept and assess items for repair, etc. - and Pentax may not wish to set up such an infrastructure. C.R. Kennedy (who fulfils this role for them in Australia) does the same for several other manufacturers, so I guess some of their fixed costs are shared amongst a larger potential customer base than any specific manufacturer could muster. The larger camera companies probably have enough to make this work for them individually, but perhaps Pentax is in that invidious position where they are large enough to need proper support for small enough for it too expensive to provide it.

Of course, by centralising their actual major repairs in a smaller number of countries within a region, they can manage those costs and focus the required skills/spares/equipment in a smaller number of locations.

I don't know... All I know for sure is that not having an in-country facility capable of doing something like shutter repairs makes things frustratingly slow; something one doesn't expect in a developed country in the modern, high tech world...

---------- Post added 05-28-20 at 09:23 PM ----------

Just out of curiosity, Ed, what was your shutter count when this catastrophic failure happened ?

Richard

Hi Richard. Around 66k, I think. I would have hoped for rather more exposures...

That said, I did shoot A LOT of star trail images, which 1000-3000 frames being shot in quick succession. Perhaps that puts disproportionate strain on a shutter in some way?

[RICHARD L.]

Thank you for your prompt reply, Ed. I always wondered if very long exposure times (like having an electronic shutter open for several minutes to capture stars in the night sky) made the shutter mechanism heat or even "overheat". For example, shooting video with certain DSLRs makes them overheat, so maybe long exposures have a similar deleterious effect on the machine.

Regards !

---

Last edited by RICHARD L.; 06-01-2020 at 08:05 AM.

[Ed Hurst]

Well, hard to say. Obviously the sensor heats up under such circumstances, so perhaps... Some of my night shots do include a frame for the foreground running to about 20 minutes!

[RICHARD L.]

Best of luck my friend ! BTW I bring a Pentax K1 + DFA 28-105 mm with me at all times when I travel. Better than nothing and a nice back-up strategy.

Regards !

[DIGIDOWNUNDER]

A failed shutter at 66k seems pretty ordinary to me for a 645Z. If you purchased your camera in Australia you are protected by consumer law with equipment failures even out of warranty if they don't last a reasonable amount of time in relation to their cost. I tested this a couple of years ago with a failed shutter at 67K on an olympus E5.
Olympus Australia quoted around $450.00 for repair and would not budge when questioned about the guaranteed minimum 150k shutter life they advertised with this camera.
Got ACCC involved and all I had to do was provide evidence of their advertised claims regarding shutter life expectancy and they went into bat for me.
After a bit of negotiating with olympus I agreed to pay half the repair cost as they argued it wasn't the actual shutter that failed but the associated gears but would replace the shutter at the same time. The camera was 5-6 years old. I also negotiated for them to look after me in price for the EM1 mk 2 which was soon to be released. They kept to their word with a huge discount far greater than the repair cost difference and have been dealing with them directly for purchases ever since with unbeatable prices. I sent the services manager a Christmas card a couple of years ago for all his kindness to me- one reason I continue to use olympus for my smaller format cameras. It literally pays to get to know your service agent even if it is a bit awkward at first. I've had a couple of direct dealings with the service manager at CR Kennedy in Sth Melbourne and he seems really lovely and willing to help. Never had any work done yet on my 645D or Z but was relieved to know a new shutter is around $900.00. I have read others have paid more than this. From my experience always use the camera manufactures repair facilities rather than an independent for modern electronic devices. Every time I used an independent I had trouble and regretted it. Just my 2 cents worth after 30 yrs in professional photography.

[texandrews]

But, wasn't the shutter of the Z supposed to be good for 100,000 actuations? That's a number I seem to recall....

[w2ck]

Hi,

So, now we get to have the failure Bell Curve discussion. The bottom line of which is the rating number comes from someone cycling a large pile of shutters and paying attention to the failures. Then, a life cycle number is derived. But, that means Zero when it comes to any individual part. It might die after a few cycles, or it might never die. The answer is somewhere in between. All I can say from the rating number is that the Z has improvements over the D. But, my D might well outlast someone else's Z....or not!

Stan

[RICHARD L.]

In applied statistics, what is being called here a "bell curve" is a "Gauss Curve" ... The apex is called the "average value" of the phenomenon being described and the curve shows the + and - normal distribution of each singular value.

Regards

P.S. You can consult the Schaum Handbook of Statistics to learn further about these mathematical models.

[UncleVanya]

In applied statistics, what is being called here a "bell curve" is a "Gauss Curve" ... The apex is called the "average value" of the phenomenon being described and the curve shows the + and - distribution of each singular value.

Regards

If we only knew the standard deviation we could interpret the
Numbers... Without that standard deviation we are guessing about longevity.

[Ed Hurst]

Yes, a mean without an SD makes it hard to know how likely a particular mount of difference from the mean actually is.

Also, while I could get into a protracted argument re. price (and I would probably have a case), it's more important to me to get the gear back and in use ASAP. It would be different if it had died after 10k actuations. But it seems to me that 66k is probably within the range, especially when I know I use the equipment hard!

[noelpolar]

Yes, a mean without an SD makes it hard to know how likely a particular mount of difference from the mean actually is.

Also, while I could get into a protracted argument (and I would probably have a case), it's more important to me to get the gear back and in use ASAP. It would be different if it had died after 10k actuations. But it seems to me that 66k is probably within the range, especially when I know I use the equipment hard!

Yes, a wise person is mindfull of how they spend their allocation of heartbeats.

[BruceBanner]

A failed shutter at 66k seems pretty ordinary to me for a 645Z. If you purchased your camera in Australia you are protected by consumer law with equipment failures even out of warranty if they don't last a reasonable amount of time in relation to their cost. I tested this a couple of years ago with a failed shutter at 67K on an olympus E5.
Olympus Australia quoted around $450.00 for repair and would not budge when questioned about the guaranteed minimum 150k shutter life they advertised with this camera.
Got ACCC involved and all I had to do was provide evidence of their advertised claims regarding shutter life expectancy and they went into bat for me.
After a bit of negotiating with olympus I agreed to pay half the repair cost as they argued it wasn't the actual shutter that failed but the associated gears but would replace the shutter at the same time. The camera was 5-6 years old. I also negotiated for them to look after me in price for the EM1 mk 2 which was soon to be released. They kept to their word with a huge discount far greater than the repair cost difference and have been dealing with them directly for purchases ever since with unbeatable prices. I sent the services manager a Christmas card a couple of years ago for all his kindness to me- one reason I continue to use olympus for my smaller format cameras. It literally pays to get to know your service agent even if it is a bit awkward at first. I've had a couple of direct dealings with the service manager at CR Kennedy in Sth Melbourne and he seems really lovely and willing to help. Never had any work done yet on my 645D or Z but was relieved to know a new shutter is around $900.00. I have read others have paid more than this. From my experience always use the camera manufactures repair facilities rather than an independent for modern electronic devices. Every time I used an independent I had trouble and regretted it. Just my 2 cents worth after 30 yrs in professional photography.

This is a great point actually and I plan to remember it should failure arise prematurely in the future.

[Ed Hurst]

Yes, a wise person is mindfull of how they spend their allocation of heartbeats.

I'd be quite willing to fight the good fight to get some reduction in the price (as 66k actuations is rather low), but not if it's going to hold up the camera's return. It's not so much a matter of avoiding a fight per se - more focusing on what matters to me most :-)