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06-01-2020, 07:23 AM - 1 Like   #61
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I’m sure that Pentax tested a batch of shutters to make sure that some high percentage outlasted their promise, maybe 95 or 98%. But that batch is a sample, and samples are described using statistics, which are a model of the population. And, as we say in my world (in which empirical statistics are routinely used), all models are false, even if some are useful.

The shutter in my Canon 5DII failed after 45,000 actuations, far less than the spec. But the camera is also ten years old. What are you gonna do? Cheaper to fix than to replace with a newer model, and a more reliable solution than replacing with a used one that is likely equally worn.

If 66,000 cycles is a low-side outlier, I think I’m good. I don’t use cameras in continuous mode.

Rick “Ed is taking the right approach” Denney

06-01-2020, 08:04 AM   #62
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Hi,

Plus, there is an opportunity to gain any engineering changes which they might have done.

Stan
06-01-2020, 08:14 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by wa2kqy Quote
Hi,

Plus, there is an opportunity to gain any engineering changes which they might have done.

Stan
Or an opportunity to enjoy any cost-cutting changes that they might have done.
06-01-2020, 02:09 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
I'd be quite willing to fight the good fight to get some reduction in the price (as 66k actuations is rather low), but not if it's going to hold up the camera's return. It's not so much a matter of avoiding a fight per se - more focusing on what matters to me most :-)
You enquire politely once you have the camera back

06-01-2020, 04:33 PM   #65
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Thanks everyone for your insightful thoughts. Given the fact that I am prioritising getting the camera back over reducing the price, if I make a case to them at all, it will be after I have the camera back in my hands. I have already formally accepted the quote and, by that time, will have paid the bill. So I suppose my bargaining power will be low by that stage. But it never hurts to try! Formally speaking, I should have made any challenge before agreeing to the quote...

What I need now is some impeccable sources proving that they claimed a 100k shutter life (not to mention proof of the shutter count that mine achieved). Does anyone have documents/links proving that claim perchance?
06-01-2020, 05:06 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
Thanks everyone for your insightful thoughts. Given the fact that I am prioritising getting the camera back over reducing the price, if I make a case to them at all, it will be after I have the camera back in my hands. I have already formally accepted the quote and, by that time, will have paid the bill. So I suppose my bargaining power will be low by that stage. But it never hurts to try! Formally speaking, I should have made any challenge before agreeing to the quote...

What I need now is some impeccable sources proving that they claimed a 100k shutter life (not to mention proof of the shutter count that mine achieved). Does anyone have documents/links proving that claim perchance?
Unfortunately, I'm guessing they don't word it that way. They usually say something like "features a shutter rated for XX K actuations. They are careful to avoid any guarantee. There may be different laws in your country. Good luck.
Thanks,
barondla
06-01-2020, 06:54 PM   #67
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Shutter life quote from pentax

Pentax itself estimate 100,000 cycles: PENTAX 645Z - Medium Format Digital Camera - PENTAX 645Z stories by the engineers | RICOH IMAGING

Last part of paragraph 2.

06-01-2020, 07:00 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by DIGIDOWNUNDER Quote
Pentax itself estimate 100,000 cycles: PENTAX 645Z - Medium Format Digital Camera - PENTAX 645Z stories by the engineers | RICOH IMAGING

Last part of paragraph 2.
Thanks, mate. Written as an estimate, so doubt I could use that to make much of a case with a camera that's several years old and got to 66k...
06-01-2020, 08:07 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
I'd be quite willing to fight the good fight to get some reduction in the price (as 66k actuations is rather low), but not if it's going to hold up the camera's return. It's not so much a matter of avoiding a fight per se - more focusing on what matters to me most :-)
I’d bet a failure at 65K is on the lower end of expected (2 std, dev.). We wouldn’t even notice if our experience was on the other side of the distribution - we’d think we were entitled to it.
06-01-2020, 08:22 PM - 1 Like   #70
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66K

I would try the 66 percent of shutter life expectancy = 66 percent of the repair cost rule. Worth a try & have got nothing to loose but agree its a bit hard to negotiate after the fact.
06-02-2020, 07:10 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
Thanks, mate. Written as an estimate, so doubt I could use that to make much of a case with a camera that's several years old and got to 66k...
Ed, I would also consider attaching your portfolio, or samples of it, plus your faithful and unerring championing of this camera to corporate Pentax. That's going to take a little work to find the right person....but really, you should be a 645Z ambassador (As should MikeSF, itshimitis, sculptormic, and several others...). Cutting you a break on the repair, or giving you some swag ---or the ambassadorship!---would be some pretty cheap marketing, if you ask me.
06-02-2020, 07:20 PM - 1 Like   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Ed, I would also consider attaching your portfolio, or samples of it, plus your faithful and unerring championing of this camera to corporate Pentax. That's going to take a little work to find the right person....but really, you should be a 645Z ambassador (As should MikeSF, itshimitis, sculptormic, and several others...). Cutting you a break on the repair, or giving you some swag ---or the ambassadorship!---would be some pretty cheap marketing, if you ask me.
That's such a flattering thing to say - thank you indeed! I am not sure I entirely deserve it, but I appreciate it very much.

I have tried before to find the relevant people in corporate Pentax to offer to work with them on promotion/etc., but to no avail. It all seems to depend on having contacts, and having the Pacific between me and those people doesn't help... If anyone here can advise, of course I'd be most grateful.

---------- Post added 06-03-20 at 12:23 PM ----------

My amazingly positive experience of C.R. Kennedy (the repair representatives for Pentax in Australia) continues...

Today, I received this message from them:
"This repair will be completed on 8th June and will ship on 8th or 9th June."

Pretty swift repair and excellent communication. I am most grateful to the specific people who have been in contact with me, who have been extremely good. Just have to hope the shipping itself is fairly quick too.

Overall, I think the process has been smoother than I dared hope for, especially in current circumstances.
06-02-2020, 09:19 PM - 1 Like   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
That's such a flattering thing to say - thank you indeed! I am not sure I entirely deserve it, but I appreciate it very much.

I have tried before to find the relevant people in corporate Pentax to offer to work with them on promotion/etc., but to no avail. It all seems to depend on having contacts, and having the Pacific between me and those people doesn't help... If anyone here can advise, of course I'd be most grateful.

---------- Post added 06-03-20 at 12:23 PM ----------

My amazingly positive experience of C.R. Kennedy (the repair representatives for Pentax in Australia) continues...

Today, I received this message from them:
"This repair will be completed on 8th June and will ship on 8th or 9th June."

Pretty swift repair and excellent communication. I am most grateful to the specific people who have been in contact with me, who have been extremely good. Just have to hope the shipping itself is fairly quick too.

Overall, I think the process has been smoother than I dared hope for, especially in current circumstances.
Great news! That is amazingly quick. C.R. Kennedy provides excellent customer service. I would send a letter to Ricoh Japan telling them. The repair center must have had shutters in stock. Feared this could go on for months. Would be interested in knowing if your 645Z resets to 0 when checked with online tools.

Thanks,
barondla
06-02-2020, 11:01 PM - 1 Like   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Would be interested in knowing if your 645Z resets to 0 when checked with online tools.
I have been curious about that too. I'll be sure to investigate and let everyone here know when I get my beloved camera back in my eager little mitts!
06-03-2020, 05:22 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
That's such a flattering thing to say - thank you indeed! I am not sure I entirely deserve it, but I appreciate it very much.

I have tried before to find the relevant people in corporate Pentax to offer to work with them on promotion/etc., but to no avail. It all seems to depend on having contacts, and having the Pacific between me and those people doesn't help... If anyone here can advise, of course I'd be most grateful.

---------- Post added 06-03-20 at 12:23 PM ----------

My amazingly positive experience of C.R. Kennedy (the repair representatives for Pentax in Australia) continues...

Today, I received this message from them:
"This repair will be completed on 8th June and will ship on 8th or 9th June."

Pretty swift repair and excellent communication. I am most grateful to the specific people who have been in contact with me, who have been extremely good. Just have to hope the shipping itself is fairly quick too.

Overall, I think the process has been smoother than I dared hope for, especially in current circumstances.
Fantastic news, Ed!
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