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06-08-2020, 12:07 AM   #1
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Half of my frames are lost. Pentax 6x7 help

Hello, so I just got a Pentax 6x7 MLU, recently. I shot one roll that came out just fine, but the second roll I developed the last five exposures look like they have been exposed to light somehow. The battery in the camera is brand new and I never accidentally opened the back, the only thing I did was change the lens. Anyone have any idea as to what couldíve happened here before I send it off to be CLAíd by Eric.

---------- Post added 06-08-20 at 12:10 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Gcrowder16 Quote
Hello, so I just got a Pentax 6x7 MLU, recently. I shot one roll that came out just fine, but the second roll I developed the last five exposures look like they have been exposed to light somehow. The battery in the camera is brand new and I never accidentally opened the back, the only thing I did was change the lens. Anyone have any idea as to what couldíve happened here before I send it off to be CLAíd by Eric.
http://https://imgur.com/a/JgovMyJ

---------- Post added 06-08-20 at 12:12 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Gcrowder16 Quote
Hello, so I just got a Pentax 6x7 MLU, recently. I shot one roll that came out just fine, but the second roll I developed the last five exposures look like they have been exposed to light somehow. The battery in the camera is brand new and I never accidentally opened the back, the only thing I did was change the lens. Anyone have any idea as to what couldíve happened here before I send it off to be CLAíd by Eric.

---------- Post added 06-08-20 at 12:10 AM ----------


http://https://imgur.com/a/JgovMyJ
Ignore that first link lol Lost frames - Album on Imgur

06-08-2020, 01:44 AM - 2 Likes   #2
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a) Are you 100% certain that half the roll wasn't exposed to light prior to loading it into the camera?
b) 90% of the time when I see negs that look like yours, it's because someone opened the back of the camera mid-roll. Often it is not the photographer but someone else messing around and they do not tell the photographer, either to avoid being embarrassed or they didn't even know they did anything wrong.
c) Who developed the film?
d) Before sending it in for repair, you really want to try to identify the cause. Take a fresh roll of 120 and only take it out of the box/foil and load it in subdued light. Get some black camera tape or at least two layers of black Gorilla or Duck tape to cover over all the areas where the back and the body meet to eliminate light leaks. IF that roll turns out fine, then try yet another but without tape.
06-08-2020, 06:02 AM   #3
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Alex gave you excellent advice.
Black vinyl electrical tape works well to cover up, and the adhesive tends to remove more easily than duct tape.
06-08-2020, 12:31 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
a) Are you 100% certain that half the roll wasn't exposed to light prior to loading it into the camera?
b) 90% of the time when I see negs that look like yours, it's because someone opened the back of the camera mid-roll. Often it is not the photographer but someone else messing around and they do not tell the photographer, either to avoid being embarrassed or they didn't even know they did anything wrong.
c) Who developed the film?
d) Before sending it in for repair, you really want to try to identify the cause. Take a fresh roll of 120 and only take it out of the box/foil and load it in subdued light. Get some black camera tape or at least two layers of black Gorilla or Duck tape to cover over all the areas where the back and the body meet to eliminate light leaks. IF that roll turns out fine, then try yet another but without tape.
A. Iím pretty sure, but I am getting used to putting medium format film in.
B. Itís possible but not likely. The Pentax 6x7 isnít the easiest camera to accidentally open.
C. I developed the film, but I developed a roll before this one, no problems.
D. Sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the advice and Iíll update this thread when I develop my next roll.

06-08-2020, 12:43 PM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gcrowder16 Quote
B. Itís possible but not likely. The Pentax 6x7 isnít the easiest camera to accidentally open.

D. Sounds like a great idea. Thanks for the advice and Iíll update this thread when I develop my next roll.
I didn't mean to infer the camera was opened accidentally. In this digital age, I've seen gremlins who may know nothing about film or film cameras curious and will open a loaded camera without the photographer's knowledge. It could be a grandparent just checking it out or it could be teenager that just saw a YouTube video on how to open the camera.

To eliminate that possibility, on this next roll, don't leave your camera out; hide it when stored. Of course you could casually ask anyone in your sphere if they opened the camera, but some won't admit it in fear of being emulsified.
06-08-2020, 01:55 PM - 2 Likes   #6
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That pattern is defintely a problem of the film roll being exposed to light. It is not a malfunction of the camera. A bad light seal around the film back would not cause this pattern of fogging, and there is no question of a shutter problem creating these symptoms.

Notice that the frames before the blasted part show light leaks from the ends. That usually means a loose roll was exposed to light, so that the backing paper wasn't able to protect the film at the edges. The blasted part was exposed to light outside the camera--even if it was wound tightly on the take-up spool, it would only be blasted to this extreme for the two or three frames that are unrolled across the frame opening when in the camera. I don't think this damage could be caused by accidently opening and then shutting the back without further disturbing the film. And if that had happened, the counter would have reset to zero and you'd have noticed a problem in use.

I think it's a fumble in handling the roll of film outside the camera. It's possible a loose roll totally fogged the film for the coils of the roll that fell outside the spool flanges, while those flanges partially protected the coils more tightly wound. It may not have been you--it could have been the lab. Lots of camera-store labs these days have lost their clinical discipline through lack of practice. Could that be it?

Are the lost frames at the beginning or end of the roll? If at the beginning, the fumble happened during loading. If at the end, then it happened after removal from the camera.

Rick "ask me how I know" Denney
06-08-2020, 04:53 PM   #7
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Hi,

So, Rick, how do you know?

Well, you asked to be asked! :P

This takes me way, way back to the early days when I had a box camera.

I think I shall have to dig up an old 6x7 body just to understand what everyone is talking about.....

Stan
06-08-2020, 04:59 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alex645 Quote
I didn't mean to infer the camera was opened accidentally. In this digital age, I've seen gremlins who may know nothing about film or film cameras curious and will open a loaded camera without the photographer's knowledge. It could be a grandparent just checking it out or it could be teenager that just saw a YouTube video on how to open the camera.

To eliminate that possibility, on this next roll, don't leave your camera out; hide it when stored. Of course you could casually ask anyone in your sphere if they opened the camera, but some won't admit it in fear of being emulsified.
I definitely see what youíre saying, but I loaded the film into the camera, took the shots, and then took out the roll. So unfortunately as much as Iíd like to blame someone else it was definitely the fault of myself haha.

---------- Post added 06-08-20 at 05:04 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by rdenney Quote
That pattern is defintely a problem of the film roll being exposed to light. It is not a malfunction of the camera. A bad light seal around the film back would not cause this pattern of fogging, and there is no question of a shutter problem creating these symptoms.

Notice that the frames before the blasted part show light leaks from the ends. That usually means a loose roll was exposed to light, so that the backing paper wasn't able to protect the film at the edges. The blasted part was exposed to light outside the camera--even if it was wound tightly on the take-up spool, it would only be blasted to this extreme for the two or three frames that are unrolled across the frame opening when in the camera. I don't think this damage could be caused by accidently opening and then shutting the back without further disturbing the film. And if that had happened, the counter would have reset to zero and you'd have noticed a problem in use.

I think it's a fumble in handling the roll of film outside the camera. It's possible a loose roll totally fogged the film for the coils of the roll that fell outside the spool flanges, while those flanges partially protected the coils more tightly wound. It may not have been you--it could have been the lab. Lots of camera-store labs these days have lost their clinical discipline through lack of practice. Could that be it?

Are the lost frames at the beginning or end of the roll? If at the beginning, the fumble happened during loading. If at the end, then it happened after removal from the camera.

Rick "ask me how I know" Denney
The lost frames are at the beginning of the roll. They were the first 5-6 pictures I took that are fried haha. Like i said Iím still getting used to loading film into the Pentax 6x7, as before I had this camera I had an automatic loading 35mm camera. Iíve loaded film manually a few times before but itís been years. And it definitely was a lab flubbing it because I am the developer of this film haha. All blame is on me unfortunately. I was in complete darkness when I unrolled the film from the backing though so I donít believe it was a problem. Iím feeling like I did something on accident when having the film outside of the camera. I thought I kept it rolled tightly but maybe not.

---------- Post added 06-08-20 at 05:06 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Gcrowder16 Quote
I definitely see what youíre saying, but I loaded the film into the camera, took the shots, and then took out the roll. So unfortunately as much as Iíd like to blame someone else it was definitely the fault of myself haha.

---------- Post added 06-08-20 at 05:04 PM ----------



The lost frames are at the beginning of the roll. They were the first 5-6 pictures I took that are fried haha. Like i said Iím still getting used to loading film into the Pentax 6x7, as before I had this camera I had an automatic loading 35mm camera. Iíve loaded film manually a few times before but itís been years. And it definitely was a lab flubbing it because I am the developer of this film haha. All blame is on me unfortunately. I was in complete darkness when I unrolled the film from the backing though so I donít believe it was a problem. Iím feeling like I did something on accident when having the film outside of the camera. I thought I kept it rolled tightly but maybe not.
Sorry I mean it wasnít a lab flubbing it. It was definitely my fault as I developed the roll. No one else had their hands on this roll except me lol.

06-08-2020, 05:45 PM - 1 Like   #9
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Loading and unloading the P6x7/P67 is something that is often overlooked as trivial by new users of the camera. Unfortunately loading correctly and safety is paramount to avoiding the debacle that is the subject of this thread!

Loading and unloading made easy:
  • First install an empty spool on the the right, ensuring it is seated and lock the clasp. Rotate the feed slot into view.
  • Next, open the bottom clasp of the roll side and wrangle the roll into place. Lock the clasp when it is seated.
  • Put your pointer and index finger at the top and bottom of the fresh roll, maintaining light pressure while pulling the leader out across to the take-up spool and into the feed slot.
  • Wind on until the START line comes into view and lines up with the marks on the film guide rail.
  • Release fingers from roll of film and close the back. Finished.
Never allow either a fresh roll or exposed roll to become 'floppy' or lightly unwound during the process. With high speed films (400ISO-plus) the process is best done stuffing the camera in a jumper or some other place to provide added protection against light penetration.

When the entire roll is exposed, that is also a trouble point where light piping occurs, and again, two fingers are required to apply pressure to the roll while winding on until you are able to grab the tail of the film and tape it into place. Unlock and pull down the clasp and remove the roll, wrapping it in tin foil to further protect against light piping. That's the last you should see of the roll until either a) you process it or b) a lab processes it.

Last edited by Silent Street; 06-08-2020 at 08:02 PM.
06-08-2020, 06:10 PM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Silent Street Quote
Loading and unloading the P6x7/P67 is something that if often overlooked as trivial by new users of the camera. Unfortunately loading correctly and safety is paramount to avoiding the debacle that is the subject of this thread!

Loading and unloading made easy:
  • First install an empty spool on the the right, ensuring it is seated and lock the clasp. Rotate the feed slot into view.
  • Next, open the bottom clasp of the roll side and wrangle the roll into place. Lock the clasp when it is seated.
  • Put your pointer and index finger at the top and bottom of the fresh roll, maintaining light pressure while pulling the leader out across to the take-up spool and into the feed slot.
  • Wind on until the START line comes into view and lines up with the marks on the film guide rail.
  • Release fingers from roll of film and close the back. Finished.
Never allow either a fresh roll or exposed roll to become 'floppy' or lightly unwound during the process. With high speed films (400ISO-plus) the process is best done stuffing the camera in a jumper or some other place to provide added protection against light penetration.

When the entire roll is exposed, that is also a trouble point where light piping occurs, and again, two fingers are required to apply pressure to the roll while winding on until you are able to grab the tail of the film and tape it into place. Unlock and pull down the clasp and remove the roll, wrapping it in tin foil to further protect against light piping. That's the last you should see of the roll until either a) you process it or b) a lab processes it.
Thank you for going into depth with this. When I was loading it, I definitely let the roll become ďfloppyĒ while loading it. Next time I will make sure to look this post over before proceeding with loading the film. Thanks!
06-08-2020, 06:25 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by wa2kqy Quote
Hi,

So, Rick, how do you know?

Well, you asked to be asked! :P

This takes me way, way back to the early days when I had a box camera.

I think I shall have to dig up an old 6x7 body just to understand what everyone is talking about.....

Stan


Letís just say that we all had to learn how to handle 120 film without letting it unwind.

For me, it was a Yashica 635, a Rolleicord rip-off.

Rick ďmaybe 45 years agoĒ Denney
06-08-2020, 08:11 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gcrowder16 Quote
Thank you for going into depth with this. When I was loading it, I definitely let the roll become “floppy” while loading it. Next time I will make sure to look this post over before proceeding with loading the film. Thanks!
Very good!

If you thought loading the Pentax 67 was a bit fraught (beginners are forgiven, and we've all come a cropper in the early years of medium format), try it with a ZeroImage 69 MF pinhole with its top and back covers required to be removed, and the roll inside always subject to unravelling much easier than with the P67! I carry with me in the car a changebag that rolls up into its own cute stuff sack and spares me any tanties or swearing in public when loading and unloading it 'in the open'.

Last edited by Silent Street; 06-08-2020 at 08:49 PM.
06-08-2020, 08:26 PM - 1 Like   #13
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In my 67ii days, I got quite adept at this process but there could still be the odd roll that would end up wound slightly less tightly than I wanted. Always seemed to be the occasional high ISO roll I used too, just for added annoyance!

I got into the habit of carrying in my bag a light-tight box (mine came from a pack of sheet film, or maybe it was small printing paper) - so any suspect rolls could be immediately popped in there after the sealing tape was secured. Obviously, grossly bad winding wouldn't be fixed that way, but any slight lacks of tightness (of the sort that could leak light to an appreciable degree only with sustained exposure) could be kept safe. Then the box would only be opened up in the dark once I got back to base...

Just a tip from experience!
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