MF Camera Purchase Considerations

**RICHARD L.** · 09-26-2020, 04:53 AM

The 645N corrected most of the flaws of the original 645 and added autofocus ...

Regards

**tonyzoc** · 09-26-2020, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by Viking42

Tony,

It sounds like you know you have a winner in that Rolleiflex of yours. In your original post you said you wanted a "better MF film camera". Could you perhaps elaborate on that? Better in what way? I'm curious, as it's pretty hard to beat that Xenotar lens at any price, so better image quality is unlikely if you're looking at those 645's. I'm guessing it's ergonomics you're after; auto exposure; faster shooting; TTL metering...? TBH, I've been mulling over getting a P645 for those very same reasons.

I actually prefer the Xenotar over the Planar lens I think. They are both incredibly sharp, but the Xenotar has kind of an organic tonality to the images that is hard to describe. Just gorgeous, esp. with PanF or TriX. The Planar is equally sharp I think, but has more harsh contrast. Still excellent though - one of the highest resolving lenses out there. I haven't tried a Rolleiflex Tessar, but had a Tessar clone in an Autocord that I owned -- you are right, terrifically sharp when stopped down. I kind of regret selling that camera actually, but I had four TLRs at the time and hardly used it.

Re. prism and grip for the Rolleiflex -- I tried this with a Mamiya C330 that I owned, and I loved how the camera handled after adding those. Really great for quick shooting, and well worth doing. I might add a prism to my Rolleiflex at some point, but I use it mostly for nature and landscapes so prefer the WLF for that.

Best,
Svend

Svend,

Oh, by better I meant the Seagull 4B...since the Rolleiflex is not currently functional. I've got a roll of HP5 in the Seagull now, so I'm going to see how that triplet performs. In not expecting much from it, but I'll try to keep my exposures at f/8 or f/11...might be hard to do with 400 iso and 1/300 top speed...I'll probably intentionally overexposed a little with HP5 can handle well.

---------- Post added 09-26-20 at 06:32 AM ----------

Originally posted by RICHARD L.

The 645N corrected most of the flaws of the original 645 and added autofocus ...

Regards

I did notice the user ratings for the AFs were usually higher than the As. Both were good though...like 9.5 vs 9.0... I plan to scan negatives so even CA and other flaws can be corrected in PP.

Part of what's pushing me to get a MF now is that fall is coming to upstate New York and I've planned a few days at Letchworth Park (Grand Canyon of NY

). I'd want to shoot some fall foliage with a MF this year. The Rolleiflex repair will probably take a couple of months to turn around....

https://images.app.goo.gl/BsWRygqKC9Af2FRBA

**Viking42** · 09-26-2020, 07:11 AM

Hi Tony,
Understood re the Seagull. Makes sense now. Thanks for clarifying.

Letchworth! Wonderful place. We hiked there with our good friends from Rochester and loved it. Fall colours are just starting here in our area, just a bit farther north of there, so it won't be long 'til they get going in Upstate. Better hurry up and get that 645 :-)

Best,
Svend

**RICHARD L.** · 09-26-2020, 09:24 AM - **1 Like**

Fall is almost here, up North in Canada. This is a digital picture but I hope it warms your heart !

**Alex645** · 09-26-2020, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by tonyzoc

Oh, by better I meant the Seagull 4B...since the Rolleiflex is not currently functional. I've got a roll of HP5 in the Seagull now, so I'm going to see how that triplet performs.

My first non-point and shoot was a Yashica MAT TLR. They didn't have the optics of a Rollei, but they were more dependable. When the Seagull came out (earlier version than the 4B), I immediately bought one because of the price. I found the optics similar to what came with the Yashica but found the shutter release mechanism extremely fragile and just gave up on it.

I hope Seagull improved on reliability.

**tonyzoc** · 09-26-2020, 01:18 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Viking42

Hi Tony,

Understood re the Seagull. Makes sense now. Thanks for clarifying.

Letchworth! Wonderful place. We hiked there with our good friends from Rochester and loved it. Fall colours are just starting here in our area, just a bit farther north of there, so it won't be long 'til they get going in Upstate. Better hurry up and get that 645 :-)

Best,

Svend

Well I'm staying at Letchworth on 10/26... My wedding anniversary...usually peak time is 2 or 3 week of Oct...so hopefully it will peak on the 3rd week this year.

---------- Post added 09-26-20 at 01:28 PM ----------

Originally posted by Alex645

My first non-point and shoot was a Yashica MAT TLR. They didn't have the optics of a Rollei, but they were more dependable. When the Seagull came out (earlier version than the 4B), I immediately bought one because of the price. I found the optics similar to what came with the Yashica but found the shutter release mechanism extremely fragile and just gave up on it.

I hope Seagull improved on reliability.

My first medium format was a Yashicamat 124G. I sold it to a friend but later bought a number of other Yashicamats. They were easy to fix so I'd pick them up "As Is" for $20-$30 and fix them up and sell for $80-$100. I've only used the Yashinon lens which is a Tessar formula lens. The yashicors were the triplet formula and lesser quality. The Seagull 4A has the 4 element and the 4B has the 3 element lens. I thought about getting a 124 or 124G, but the prices are high $200s or more and most of the time they are in need of some repair...the meter's dead, the slow speeds stick, self timer doesn't work...etc.

**Viking42** · 09-26-2020, 04:48 PM

Not sure what the Seagull is like, but there's the odd triplet that is really sharp. I've had a few in old folders from the '50s. A Zeiss Novar was soft, but Agfa Apotar and Rodenstock Trinar were excellent. Really surprised me actually...didn’t expect anything like it from such simple lenses. Hope yours is a winner.

Enjoy Letchworth. Special place.

**tonyzoc** · 09-30-2020, 12:49 PM - **2 Likes**

Thanks all for your input. I opted for a 645. Got it with the 55, 75 and 80-160 for $500...about $625 with tax and shipping.

texandrews · 09-30-2020, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by tonyzoc

Thanks all for your input. I opted for a 645. Got it with the 55, 75 and 80-160 for $500...about $625 with tax and shipping.

Score, I'd say.

**Viking42** · 09-30-2020, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by tonyzoc

Thanks all for your input. I opted for a 645. Got it with the 55, 75 and 80-160 for $500...about $625 with tax and shipping.

That's a great deal! Well done. And enjoy the camera. Let us know how you get on with it.

Rgds,
Svend

**tonyzoc** · 10-02-2020, 07:09 AM - **5 Likes**

Camera arrived and I've already put a roll through it. I'll probably dev and scan this weekend to confirm all is working as it should. Everything seems to work fine. Lenses are in great shape. So I bought 5 rolls of C41 film for my trip.

**barondla** · 10-02-2020, 07:26 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by tonyzoc

Camera arrived and I've already put a roll through it. I'll probably dev and scan this weekend to confirm all is working as it should. Everything seems to work fine. Lenses are in great shape. So I bought 5 rolls of C41 film for my trip.

Great looking set up. Hope you're taking more than 5 rolls of film on the trip. That's less than 80 shots. Enjoy and please post some pics when time permits.

Thanks,
barondla

**tonyzoc** · 10-02-2020, 08:12 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by barondla

Great looking set up. Hope you're taking more than 5 rolls of film on the trip. That's less than 80 shots. Enjoy and please post some pics when time permits.

Thanks,

barondla

Well...I'll have my K-70 and probably take a couple 35mm film cameras...probably my Nikon F2A and Pentax MX. (Or I might put a roll of color in my Exakta VXIIa) I've got 2 rolls of 36exp Delta 100 and 2 more rolls of 24exp Kodak Gold. Luckily I'm driving because I'll need 2 camera bags. I'm going to make a long weekend of it and I might stop in Allegheny State Park...Which is at the northern tip if the Allegheny National Forest...in NY on the PA border. There's some giant rock formations there that make for some cool pics.

https://images.app.goo.gl/EnR2y6WWCZ8NFQ2C9

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09-26-2020, 04:53 AM	#16
RICHARD L. Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Quebec City, Quebec Posts: 6,573	The 645N corrected most of the flaws of the original 645 and added autofocus ... Regards

09-26-2020, 06:22 AM	#17
tonyzoc Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 992 Original Poster	Originally posted by Viking42 Tony, It sounds like you know you have a winner in that Rolleiflex of yours. In your original post you said you wanted a "better MF film camera". Could you perhaps elaborate on that? Better in what way? I'm curious, as it's pretty hard to beat that Xenotar lens at any price, so better image quality is unlikely if you're looking at those 645's. I'm guessing it's ergonomics you're after; auto exposure; faster shooting; TTL metering...? TBH, I've been mulling over getting a P645 for those very same reasons. I actually prefer the Xenotar over the Planar lens I think. They are both incredibly sharp, but the Xenotar has kind of an organic tonality to the images that is hard to describe. Just gorgeous, esp. with PanF or TriX. The Planar is equally sharp I think, but has more harsh contrast. Still excellent though - one of the highest resolving lenses out there. I haven't tried a Rolleiflex Tessar, but had a Tessar clone in an Autocord that I owned -- you are right, terrifically sharp when stopped down. I kind of regret selling that camera actually, but I had four TLRs at the time and hardly used it. Re. prism and grip for the Rolleiflex -- I tried this with a Mamiya C330 that I owned, and I loved how the camera handled after adding those. Really great for quick shooting, and well worth doing. I might add a prism to my Rolleiflex at some point, but I use it mostly for nature and landscapes so prefer the WLF for that. Best, Svend Svend, Oh, by better I meant the Seagull 4B...since the Rolleiflex is not currently functional. I've got a roll of HP5 in the Seagull now, so I'm going to see how that triplet performs. In not expecting much from it, but I'll try to keep my exposures at f/8 or f/11...might be hard to do with 400 iso and 1/300 top speed...I'll probably intentionally overexposed a little with HP5 can handle well. ---------- Post added 09-26-20 at 06:32 AM ---------- Originally posted by RICHARD L. The 645N corrected most of the flaws of the original 645 and added autofocus ... Regards I did notice the user ratings for the AFs were usually higher than the As. Both were good though...like 9.5 vs 9.0... I plan to scan negatives so even CA and other flaws can be corrected in PP. Part of what's pushing me to get a MF now is that fall is coming to upstate New York and I've planned a few days at Letchworth Park (Grand Canyon of NY ). I'd want to shoot some fall foliage with a MF this year. The Rolleiflex repair will probably take a couple of months to turn around.... https://images.app.goo.gl/BsWRygqKC9Af2FRBA

09-26-2020, 07:11 AM	#18
Viking42 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Caledon, Ontario, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 504	Hi Tony, Understood re the Seagull. Makes sense now. Thanks for clarifying. Letchworth! Wonderful place. We hiked there with our good friends from Rochester and loved it. Fall colours are just starting here in our area, just a bit farther north of there, so it won't be long 'til they get going in Upstate. Better hurry up and get that 645 :-) Best, Svend

09-26-2020, 09:24 AM - 1 Like	#19
RICHARD L. Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Quebec City, Quebec Posts: 6,573	Fall is almost here, up North in Canada. This is a digital picture but I hope it warms your heart !

09-26-2020, 11:39 AM	#20
Alex645 Site Supporter Join Date: May 2015 Location: Kaneohe, HI Photos: Albums Posts: 3,526	Originally posted by tonyzoc Oh, by better I meant the Seagull 4B...since the Rolleiflex is not currently functional. I've got a roll of HP5 in the Seagull now, so I'm going to see how that triplet performs. My first non-point and shoot was a Yashica MAT TLR. They didn't have the optics of a Rollei, but they were more dependable. When the Seagull came out (earlier version than the 4B), I immediately bought one because of the price. I found the optics similar to what came with the Yashica but found the shutter release mechanism extremely fragile and just gave up on it. I hope Seagull improved on reliability.

09-26-2020, 01:18 PM - 1 Like	#21
tonyzoc Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 992 Original Poster	Originally posted by Viking42 Hi Tony, Understood re the Seagull. Makes sense now. Thanks for clarifying. Letchworth! Wonderful place. We hiked there with our good friends from Rochester and loved it. Fall colours are just starting here in our area, just a bit farther north of there, so it won't be long 'til they get going in Upstate. Better hurry up and get that 645 :-) Best, Svend Well I'm staying at Letchworth on 10/26... My wedding anniversary...usually peak time is 2 or 3 week of Oct...so hopefully it will peak on the 3rd week this year. ---------- Post added 09-26-20 at 01:28 PM ---------- Originally posted by Alex645 My first non-point and shoot was a Yashica MAT TLR. They didn't have the optics of a Rollei, but they were more dependable. When the Seagull came out (earlier version than the 4B), I immediately bought one because of the price. I found the optics similar to what came with the Yashica but found the shutter release mechanism extremely fragile and just gave up on it. I hope Seagull improved on reliability. My first medium format was a Yashicamat 124G. I sold it to a friend but later bought a number of other Yashicamats. They were easy to fix so I'd pick them up "As Is" for $20-$30 and fix them up and sell for $80-$100. I've only used the Yashinon lens which is a Tessar formula lens. The yashicors were the triplet formula and lesser quality. The Seagull 4A has the 4 element and the 4B has the 3 element lens. I thought about getting a 124 or 124G, but the prices are high $200s or more and most of the time they are in need of some repair...the meter's dead, the slow speeds stick, self timer doesn't work...etc.

09-26-2020, 04:48 PM	#22
Viking42 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Caledon, Ontario, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 504	Not sure what the Seagull is like, but there's the odd triplet that is really sharp. I've had a few in old folders from the '50s. A Zeiss Novar was soft, but Agfa Apotar and Rodenstock Trinar were excellent. Really surprised me actually...didn’t expect anything like it from such simple lenses. Hope yours is a winner. Enjoy Letchworth. Special place.

09-30-2020, 12:49 PM - 2 Likes	#23
tonyzoc Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 992 Original Poster	Thanks all for your input. I opted for a 645. Got it with the 55, 75 and 80-160 for $500...about $625 with tax and shipping.

09-30-2020, 01:48 PM	#24
texandrews Moderator Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Baltimore Photos: Albums Posts: 3,390	Originally posted by tonyzoc Thanks all for your input. I opted for a 645. Got it with the 55, 75 and 80-160 for $500...about $625 with tax and shipping. Score, I'd say.

09-30-2020, 01:53 PM	#25
Viking42 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Caledon, Ontario, Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 504	Originally posted by tonyzoc Thanks all for your input. I opted for a 645. Got it with the 55, 75 and 80-160 for $500...about $625 with tax and shipping. That's a great deal! Well done. And enjoy the camera. Let us know how you get on with it. Rgds, Svend

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10-02-2020, 07:09 AM - 5 Likes	#26
tonyzoc Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 992 Original Poster	Camera arrived and I've already put a roll through it. I'll probably dev and scan this weekend to confirm all is working as it should. Everything seems to work fine. Lenses are in great shape. So I bought 5 rolls of C41 film for my trip.

10-02-2020, 07:26 AM - 1 Like	#27
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,714	Originally posted by tonyzoc Camera arrived and I've already put a roll through it. I'll probably dev and scan this weekend to confirm all is working as it should. Everything seems to work fine. Lenses are in great shape. So I bought 5 rolls of C41 film for my trip. Great looking set up. Hope you're taking more than 5 rolls of film on the trip. That's less than 80 shots. Enjoy and please post some pics when time permits. Thanks, barondla

10-02-2020, 08:12 AM - 1 Like	#28
tonyzoc Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 992 Original Poster	Originally posted by barondla Great looking set up. Hope you're taking more than 5 rolls of film on the trip. That's less than 80 shots. Enjoy and please post some pics when time permits. Thanks, barondla Well...I'll have my K-70 and probably take a couple 35mm film cameras...probably my Nikon F2A and Pentax MX. (Or I might put a roll of color in my Exakta VXIIa) I've got 2 rolls of 36exp Delta 100 and 2 more rolls of 24exp Kodak Gold. Luckily I'm driving because I'll need 2 camera bags. I'm going to make a long weekend of it and I might stop in Allegheny State Park...Which is at the northern tip if the Allegheny National Forest...in NY on the PA border. There's some giant rock formations there that make for some cool pics. https://images.app.goo.gl/EnR2y6WWCZ8NFQ2C9