[Pål Jensen]

I think that is precisely what they will do. Its too early for a new 645. These sort of cameras have long product life. Pentax is too busy with APS and FF + a few FF lenses. Maybe a new 645 in a couple of years. I would expect full frame 645.....

[repaap]

Just slap in the big MF sensor (54mm wide variant) and sell it for 10 000$. This will cause havoc in current state of subframe digital "MF".

Even if they would charge 15000, it would be a big deal.

---------- Post added 01-30-21 at 15:20 ----------

I think that is precisely what they will do. Its too early for a new 645. These sort of cameras have long product life. Pentax is too busy with APS and FF + a few FF lenses. Maybe a new 645 in a couple of years. I would expect full frame 645.....

As many have stated. 645Z is still very capable and brings that MF ‘look’ and juicy files. Even if there are now these 102BSI one’s available.

So they do still have couple years to get it done.

[whwang]

As a 645z user myself, I also agree that 645z is still very capable. But this is not the problem here. The problem is that the sensor used in 645z was discontinued by Sony quite a while ago. All Pentax can do now is to sell 645z with the sensors that they have in stock. Once they sell out, they have nothing to provide to the market. So Pentax has to start developing a new camera, even if 645z is still very capable. And if they are going to provide a new camera to the market, it has to be awesome, because of the competition from Fuji. So talking about whether 645z is capable is totally irrelevant for Pentax's survival in the MF market.

[w2ck]

Hi,

There will have been a Last Time Buy from Sony on the sensor. We have zero idea regarding how many Pentax ordered, nor what their production rate is. So, they could have bought a decade's worth for all we know. The 645z is likely to be in production for a few more years, I suspect.

Stan

[Pål Jensen]

As a 645z user myself, I also agree that 645z is still very capable. But this is not the problem here. The problem is that the sensor used in 645z was discontinued by Sony quite a while ago. All Pentax can do now is to sell 645z with the sensors that they have in stock. Once they sell out, they have nothing to provide to the market. So Pentax has to start developing a new camera, even if 645z is still very capable. And if they are going to provide a new camera to the market, it has to be awesome, because of the competition from Fuji. So talking about whether 645z is capable is totally irrelevant for Pentax's survival in the MF market.

I'm pretty sure Pentax is constantly developing cameras and have something ready when supply of the current sensor runs out.
I don't think the fujis are awesome. They are unacceptable to me due to the lack of a decent (read optical) viewfinder......

[texandrews]

Hi,

There will have been a Last Time Buy from Sony on the sensor. We have zero idea regarding how many Pentax ordered, nor what their production rate is. So, they could have bought a decade's worth for all we know. The 645z is likely to be in production for a few more years, I suspect.

Stan

Mistral apparently posted some monthly production rate figures for Pentax cameras---it was quoted by someone in another thread, and I haven't drilled down to see Mistral's OP yet. But in that he wrote that the Z had a monthly production quota of 400.

[SFTphotography]

As a 645z user myself, I also agree that 645z is still very capable. But this is not the problem here. The problem is that the sensor used in 645z was discontinued by Sony quite a while ago. All Pentax can do now is to sell 645z with the sensors that they have in stock. Once they sell out, they have nothing to provide to the market. So Pentax has to start developing a new camera, even if 645z is still very capable. And if they are going to provide a new camera to the market, it has to be awesome, because of the competition from Fuji. So talking about whether 645z is capable is totally irrelevant for Pentax's survival in the MF market.

They can indeed make them until they run out of sensors - but keep a stock back for repairs of existing cameras.

That doesn't stop them developing a replacement - use the same basic chassis - add the new 100mp sensor and better AF and job done. They could even sell a 50mp and 100mp along side each other - Sony let you buy the older generation cheaper than the new. You can still buy an A7r3 even though the A7r4 has been on sale for some time. Sell the 50mp model cheaper than the 100mp and you might even get some converts to the make.

---------- Post added 02-01-21 at 09:42 AM ----------

I'm pretty sure Pentax is constantly developing cameras and have something ready when supply of the current sensor runs out.
I don't think the fujis are awesome. They are unacceptable to me due to the lack of a decent (read optical) viewfinder......

I quite agree - and a big issue is either PDAF striping or PDAF banding. Putting the phase detect focus points on the sensor is good in one way for you no longer need to fine tune the AF - but can cause stripes in certain images and banding in the shadows where there are lines in the sensor that become visible.

Keeping the PDAF off the sensor and going with the SLR format has an advantage - and further more people like the OVF and the mirror protects the sensor from dirt. Cleaning a sensor isn't rocket science...but it is something you need to do a lot less off with a DSLR camera

---------- Post added 02-01-21 at 09:44 AM ----------

They will produce more cameras but some of the sensor stock needs held back for spares/repairs. None of this should stop them developing a new camera around the 100mp - and they can sell a 50mp model along side the 100mp one at a suitable price to attract people to their range.

---------- Post added 02-01-21 at 09:46 AM ----------

Just slap in the big MF sensor (54mm wide variant) and sell it for 10 000$. This will cause havoc in current state of subframe digital "MF".

For 10k I'd probably dig deep

[clackers]

Mistral apparently posted some monthly production rate figures for Pentax cameras---it was quoted by someone in another thread, and I haven't drilled down to see Mistral's OP yet. But in that he wrote that the Z had a monthly production quota of 400.

I think that was only 'initial' production run, where the product was launched globally.

Not the same thing as how many they make today, or even six months after launch.

[barondla]

So the competitor has no problem building 4 different mf bodies in 3 years. Pentax is on a slower path and really likes to keep things as compatible as possible. There is a way we haven't discussed for Pentax to put pressure on the competition. What if the next 645 (1st with Ricoh input) has interchangeable backs? Offer both sensor options and let the customer buy the one that suits their needs. Even let people trade the crop sensor back in on the ff, similar to updating K-1 to MKII. 6 years from now when it's time for a new model owners can update to the new model by switching to the new sensor. SLR technology is mature so Pentax wouldn't have to redesign the whole camera, just the interchangeable back. Ricoh has experience with sensor swapping on their multiformat GR from years ago. Anyone looking at a Fuji would think twice about obsolescence.

Thanks,
barondla

[repaap]

So the competitor has no problem building 4 different mf bodies in 3 years. Pentax is on a slower path and really likes to keep things as compatible as possible. There is a way we haven't discussed for Pentax to put pressure on the competition. What if the next 645 (1st with Ricoh input) has interchangeable backs? Offer both sensor options and let the customer buy the one that suits their needs. Even let people trade the crop sensor back in on the ff, similar to updating K-1 to MKII. 6 years from now when it's time for a new model owners can update to the new model by switching to the new sensor. SLR technology is mature so Pentax wouldn't have to redesign the whole camera, just the interchangeable back. Ricoh has experience with sensor swapping on their multiformat GR from years ago. Anyone looking at a Fuji would think twice about obsolescence.

Thanks,
barondla

It is interesting that you say 4 different models(I presume that you meanFujifilm). Well they really have made amazing work and seems that they do have almost unlimited funds in developing things. One of the things that make it possible is that mirrorless design. One more thing is that they really are in kind of movemtum in competing with FF, as we have seen from this latest model. And it is making that impact already. They seem to go for smaller form. Just because of the FF they want to compete with. I suppose that was their goal.


Now this is different from what Ricoh is doing, one thing is just because they did actually go forward with K-1 line. Pentax 645 leans towards to big format in many ways. superb handling and functionality of old 645 series, fit in hand, but is also impressive in size.


Where this new GFX 100s is leaning the new trend of cameras. Panasonic S 1, Canon R 5 and this 100 s are difficult to tell apart from each others(outside).

should Ricoh make what they did in past, but with bigger format to be part of that new trend? I think that they are and have been thinking of that same very thing. And this is the reason why it has taken them so long to make decision. They'v said that they will observe market, and new tech, where it is heading. And they do have the legacy on the other hand.

I don't know how much of owners of 645 D/Z are jumping to get the latest and how many will think of smaller size as advantage over what they do now have. This is propably bigger question if this old system would be still attactive if it was just a bit honed and new tech installed inside with possibly 102BSI sensor, and or 150 MB bigger sensor. What is needed is that 80-160 zoom what is on the roadmap and to get that 25 mm back or wider. perhaps refined 'portrait' lens too? 105/2.4?

[texandrews]

I think that was only 'initial' production run, where the product was launched globally.

Not the same thing as how many they make today, or even six months after launch.

No, definitely not! I'd be a bit surprised if the Z was still being manufactured at this point. I wonder what a "normal" production run is, and what a "normal" one for Pentax is?

[clackers]

No, definitely not! I'd be a bit surprised if the Z was still being manufactured at this point. I wonder what a "normal" production run is, and what a "normal" one for Pentax is?

I suspect, modern management techniques and all, that executives decide how much company capital is tied up in warehouses around the world, and once a fixed number of predicted sales (six months or whatever) is sitting on shelves, they don't make any at all.

[TDvN57]

I don't know how much of owners of 645 D/Z are jumping to get the latest and how many will think of smaller size as advantage over what they do now have.

If Pentax brings out the 150mpx near full frame 645 the decision for me will be similar to deciding on a larger format camera where I already own all the lenses I need.

If they follow Fuji and others with a 100mpx then it has to perform so well that it makes my 645z obsolete before I'll buy it.

Thus in my case I'll be more willing to buy the 150mpx than the 100mpx.

The excessive price tag some people float around for the 150mpx I personally think is unrealistic. Rewind a few years ago when 50mpx and 100mpx had similar scary price expectations. That is not to say that a near full frame 645 won't carry a premium price though.

[barondla]

It is possible that Sony will introduce a new sensor between the 100 and 150. On a medium format forum, some were speculating Fujifilm will use a new ~70mp sensor. They feel that Fuji has advanced knowledge of this sensor. The thinking is Fuji said the 100mp sensor requires image stabilization, and that they would have a tough time shrinking it down to fit in their entry level cameras, at a reasonable price. If true, Pentax could use the same sensor. Interesting times.

Thanks,
barondla

[w2ck]

Hi,

This is always possible of course. Sony isn't going to say until they are ready. But, I suspect the choices will continue to be either the 100 or the 150 for some time. Me? I'm rooting for the 150 for Pentax. That gives the market another choice as opposed to the Same Thing Only Different we had between the 645z and the 50s/r offerings.

Stan