[a1sportsphotography]

I used to have, many years ago, a Pentax 645

It was a lovely camera, and I am now shooting 6x6

I bought a Rolleiflex T which was so bad I sent it back (going back Monday)

I have a mint, Seagull WSC-120, truly stunning camera and I talk as a photographer for 45 years.

However...........

I have been looking at many many many 6x6 cameras from Mamiya, Rollei, the over priced Yashica hipsters 124g and Minolta then it came to me (sorry Autistic, aspergers and s l o w to think )

GET another 645.

I prefer the 6x6 format but hey I have a stunning Seagull

I am happy with another 645, but as it will mainly be for my Autistic son, (like father like son, Single father of three autistic sons) money is limited BUT I want a reliable GOOD condition one.

I do like the 645N

1. Any advice on what NOT to buy
2. Any advice on what TO buy
3. What to really avoid

Many thanks

Jeremy R

Attached Images

     

[Pål Jensen]

Choose the 645NII over the 645N. The former has no film flatness issues and more custom functions.....

[asahijock]

Choose the 645NII over the 645N. The former has no film flatness issues and more custom functions.....

What is it about the NII that means the film is flatter?

Thanks

asahijock

[Pål Jensen]

What is it about the NII that means the film is flatter?

It takes 15 frames on one 120 roll instead of 16.

[asahijock]

It takes 15 frames on one 120 roll instead of 16.

Can you say what it is about taking 15 as opposed to 16 frames that improves flatness and are we talking about all of the frames so that in a P645N all of the frames will have less flatness than on the P645N II?

Do you know what Pentax actually said about this? Is there a Pentax announcement on this?

Thanks

asahijock

[leekil]

It takes 15 frames on one 120 roll instead of 16.

That means flatness, or just more precise advancement of the film?

[asahijock]

I used to have, many years ago, a Pentax 645

It was a lovely camera, and I am now shooting 6x6

I bought a Rolleiflex T which was so bad I sent it back (going back Monday)

I have a mint, Seagull WSC-120, truly stunning camera and I talk as a photographer for 45 years.

However...........

I have been looking at many many many 6x6 cameras from Mamiya, Rollei, the over priced Yashica hipsters 124g and Minolta then it came to me (sorry Autistic, aspergers and s l o w to think )

GET another 645.

I prefer the 6x6 format but hey I have a stunning Seagull

I am happy with another 645, but as it will mainly be for my Autistic son, (like father like son, Single father of three autistic sons) money is limited BUT I want a reliable GOOD condition one.

I do like the 645N

1. Any advice on what NOT to buy
2. Any advice on what TO buy
3. What to really avoid

Many thanks

Jeremy R

Jeremy as you haven't asked about where to buy a P645N this question may be irrelevant but in case sources for the P645N is of value it might help if you say where you are based i.e. the U.K., somewhere in Europe. the U.S. or somewhere else in the World

Thanks

asahijock

[Pål Jensen]

The film flatness issue is because the way the film transport work in the 645 camera. The film bends backwards over the roll. The film "remembers" this bend. With 16 frames per 120 rolls the distance between frames on the roll will be shorter than with 15. Hence, the previous bend in the film base ends up within the frame for the next image. The result is like having a lens that is decentered randomly! I had my 645 at service several times before we figured it out. Pentax reset the frame to 15 on the NII model for this reason.
It is apparently less of a problem if you shoot the roll quickly although I had problems (randomly) regardless. It may also be temperature dependent.....

[asahijock]

Thanks, Pal, so if the OP goes for a P645 which only takes 15 frames he avoids the problem and likewise he can avoid the problem by the custom function which allows a choice of 15 or 16 frames?

I am still a little puzzled, The insert as far as I am aware is the same for the P645 the P654N and the P645NII so the backwards bend in where the roll of film actually bends is the same as the insert is the same so I assume that in the bigger gaps created when there are only 15 frames the part of the film where bend is moves beyond the actual picture frame each time whereas the shorter distance moved each time in a 16 frame insert means that each frame will have a potential flatness problem? I would not have thought that the saving of one frame over a roll was enough to space the frames out sufficiently to avoid the bend being on the part of the film where the picture is but there we are

Whether this bend problem reveals itself might depend on how quickly the film is used and/or depends as you say on temperature .

I have to say that in my P645N I often have a long time between frames. Days or even weeks sometimes but I haven't see this lack of flatness.

I did a bit of research and there was a thread on one of the other forums namely Photo net. Like any other forum a few expressed the view that in theory film flatness may be a problem in theory but no-one seemed to have experienced it. One person said that he had exposed over 500 rolls and was yet to see it and another said that he has used the P645N over many years and without issue so he regarded the story as a myth. One person mentioned that Pentax had recognised the problem hence the 15/16 choice on the NII but he gave no link to the source in which Pentax had admitted there was a problem

However you have had the problem so for you it did exist. I don't suppose that long after discontinuation of the P645N we are ever likely to find out exactly what Pentax said about this and in particular what it might have said about what conditions such as temperature and time between frames that it occurs

asahijock