Pause after shot with 645N?

htolino · 11-08-2020, 06:33 PM

I’ve recently purchased a clean Pentax 645N. I’ve shot two rolls of C-41 so far; got the first set back from the lab and they look fine. But I have noticed something odd.

Occasionally, the shutter will fire and the mirror clunk as expected, but there’s a delay before winding the film for the next exposure. It almost seems like the shutter locked up, save that after a second or so the film will advance and the camera works normally. Exposures on my test roll seem fine, and the expected exposure information is written on the film border.

I’m going to try a fresh set of batteries. Other than that, is this something to worry about?

asahijock · 11-09-2020, 09:02 AM

It might depend on what you mean by a delay. My P654N does not wind-on instantly as if it was a machine gun or possibly at the speed that say a Nikon F5 might wind on but there is not a noticeable delay. What seems key to me is: has the camera wind-on delay changed and is this change only intermittent i.e. sometimes there is no delay. If the time that one film winds on between frames does noticeably vary from frame to frame then there might be an issue. As far as the battery is concerned, there is a low battery indicator which shows well before the batteries are almost flat. If that is not showing then I doubt if the batteries have anything to do with what might not be a problem anyway

asahijock

htolino · 11-09-2020, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by asahijock

It might depend on what you mean by a delay. My P654N does not wind-on instantly as if it was a machine gun or possibly at the speed that say a Nikon F5 might wind on but there is not a noticeable delay. What seems key to me is: has the camera wind-on delay changed and is this change only intermittent i.e. sometimes there is no delay. If the time that one film winds on between frames does noticeably vary from frame to frame then there might be an issue. As far as the battery is concerned, there is a low battery indicator which shows well before the batteries are almost flat. If that is not showing then I doubt if the batteries have anything to do with what might not be a problem anyway

asahijock

Thanks for the response ad the information. Everything seems fine, save for the delay, which is not constant; sometimes it advances immediately after the shot us complete, and sometimes it takes a two-count for the mirror to return and the film advance. It's intermittent, but has been happening once or twice a roll of 120 film.

Does the 645N have a low-battery indicator? I'm still learning my way around the camera.

asahijock · 11-09-2020, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by htolino

Thanks for the response ad the information. Everything seems fine, save for the delay, which is not constant; sometimes it advances immediately after the shot us complete, and sometimes it takes a two-count for the mirror to return and the film advance. It's intermittent, but has been happening once or twice a roll of 120 film.

Does the 645N have a low-battery indicator? I'm still learning my way around the camera.

Yes and it is worth getting an instruction manual for it which explains a lot about how to operate the camera

asahijock

stevebrot · 11-09-2020, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by htolino

I'm still learning my way around the camera.

Originally posted by asahijock

Yes and it is worth getting an instruction manual for it which explains a lot about how to operate the camera

...and of course the helpful link to the manual!

Pentax Manuals | Medium Format (if asked, password for the pdf is "Pentax")

Steve

asahijock · 11-09-2020, 03:04 PM

Thanks Steve I had no idea that such a resource existed. Is this a separate website or is there a way from this forum to the manuals?

asahijock

htolino · 11-10-2020, 06:27 AM

Good Morning. Thanks again for the information; I've downloaded the manual and can see that there's a 'low battery' warning on the LCD. Unfortunately, 1) it only comes on if the batteries are low - it's not a 'fuel gauge;' and 2) it's not showing on my camera.

I suppose that there's a chance that the batteries might be marginal; I'll check for the warning icon the next time I experience the pause. And I'll still buy some new batteries.

All that said: does anyone have any other suggestions as to what might cause the intermittent delay after making a shot?

**yurihuta** · 11-10-2020, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by htolino

All that said: does anyone have any other suggestions as to what might cause the intermittent delay after making a shot?

Any chance you are running 120 film through a 220 film insert?

htolino · 11-10-2020, 12:09 PM

Good thought. But it's a 120 insert; also the film advances to the end (as expected) after the 16th shot.

asahijock · 11-11-2020, 05:24 AM

Have your tried a fresh set of batteries yet? It's worth a shot. Even if it makes no difference you can always swop back to your existing batteries and keep the new ones in reserve. Just a very long shot but are your current batteries sourced from a reliable company such as Duracell or other recognised battery company?

I once bought a set of batteries from a seller on a market stall. They were incredibly cheap and they worked fine at first but within maybe a week they lost power and were useless very soon after.

asahijock

htolino · 11-11-2020, 06:09 AM

I'm going to pick up some fresh batteries this weekend; I'll inspect all the contacts and such while I'm at it.

I've read mixed opinions on Lithium AA cells - any thoughts?

htolino · 11-13-2020, 03:07 PM

Just an update: I just cleaned the battery contacts with a pencil eraser, installed a fresh set of Energizer Lithium batteries, and ran a scrap roll of film through the camera. Same results.

It seems to be happening in the middle of the roll, if that’s significant.

I watched the LCD for the entire roll, and the low battery icon never came on.

asahijock · 11-14-2020, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by htolino

Just an update: I just cleaned the battery contacts with a pencil eraser, installed a fresh set of Energizer Lithium batteries, and ran a scrap roll of film through the camera. Same results.

It seems to be happening in the middle of the roll, if that’s significant.

.

Are you relying on your ears so to speak to detect the increase in the pause? Does this increase in the pause last from the mid-roll to the end or does it get better towards the end of the roll?

Once you have taken the last shot is there the same length of pause and once it begins winding the roll to the end is this continuous without hesitation at all?

It might be worth using a stop watch to time each frame wind-on to be certain that there is a definite difference in the wind-on time as the roll is used up.

You'd need a stop watch that works in at least tenths of a second and one hundredths might be better.

How many rolls have been through the camera since you discovered the fault? Is it getting better, worse or no change? If I had a scrap 120 roll I'd try this myself and report back with my findings but I don't and currently I don't have a film loaded.

Maybe others with scrap rolls could try their cameras' hesitation to compare notes If no-one volunteers then you might seek out a few film P645 users from the forum and seek their views via a PM

Finally a long shot but have you examined your insert to see if there could be anything in it that is causing this moment's hesitation

I am out of suggestions now, short of the usual one of taking or sending it to a qualified repairman and seeking help there

asahijock

htolino · 11-14-2020, 09:46 AM

I really appreciate all of your help. When the camera behaves normally, I hear the mirror clunk and it immediatel advances to the next frame. When it doesn’t, I can actually count two seconds (as in One-Mississippi Two-Mississippi) before the film advances.

It seems to happen in the middle of a roll; shots at the beginning and the end are fine.

Swapping the insert is a good idea. I’ll see if I have any scrap 220 film and try the 220 insert that came with the camera.

Thanks again for the help.

**yurihuta** · 11-15-2020, 07:37 PM

I had two of my 645N bodies serviced by a fellow in Arizona named Jaron Ball. One of the bodies have a film transport issue which he fixed (this was a recent purchase and I sent it off as a precaution). He did a CLA on both as well. I have a third 645N body in his shop for some more intensive work. Jaron has a youtube channel where he shows repairs being done to a 645 FA 75mm lens and 645N bodies (and other gear too). I contact him through Instagram - Login ? Instagram. He is 3D printing parts for the 645N (shutter speed dial and the battery holder) and also has designed and built circuit boards for Nimslo cameras.

Originally posted by htolino

I’ve recently purchased a clean Pentax 645N. I’ve shot two rolls of C-41 so far; got the first set back from the lab and they look fine. But I have noticed something odd.

Occasionally, the shutter will fire and the mirror clunk as expected, but there’s a delay before winding the film for the next exposure. It almost seems like the shutter locked up, save that after a second or so the film will advance and the camera works normally. Exposures on my test roll seem fine, and the expected exposure information is written on the film border.

I’m going to try a fresh set of batteries. Other than that, is this something to worry about?

11-08-2020, 06:33 PM	#1
htolino Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 10	Pause after shot with 645N? I’ve recently purchased a clean Pentax 645N. I’ve shot two rolls of C-41 so far; got the first set back from the lab and they look fine. But I have noticed something odd. Occasionally, the shutter will fire and the mirror clunk as expected, but there’s a delay before winding the film for the next exposure. It almost seems like the shutter locked up, save that after a second or so the film will advance and the camera works normally. Exposures on my test roll seem fine, and the expected exposure information is written on the film border. I’m going to try a fresh set of batteries. Other than that, is this something to worry about?

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11-09-2020, 09:02 AM	#2
asahijock Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Northants, England Posts: 167	It might depend on what you mean by a delay. My P654N does not wind-on instantly as if it was a machine gun or possibly at the speed that say a Nikon F5 might wind on but there is not a noticeable delay. What seems key to me is: has the camera wind-on delay changed and is this change only intermittent i.e. sometimes there is no delay. If the time that one film winds on between frames does noticeably vary from frame to frame then there might be an issue. As far as the battery is concerned, there is a low battery indicator which shows well before the batteries are almost flat. If that is not showing then I doubt if the batteries have anything to do with what might not be a problem anyway asahijock

11-09-2020, 10:19 AM	#3
htolino Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 10 Original Poster	Originally posted by asahijock It might depend on what you mean by a delay. My P654N does not wind-on instantly as if it was a machine gun or possibly at the speed that say a Nikon F5 might wind on but there is not a noticeable delay. What seems key to me is: has the camera wind-on delay changed and is this change only intermittent i.e. sometimes there is no delay. If the time that one film winds on between frames does noticeably vary from frame to frame then there might be an issue. As far as the battery is concerned, there is a low battery indicator which shows well before the batteries are almost flat. If that is not showing then I doubt if the batteries have anything to do with what might not be a problem anyway asahijock Thanks for the response ad the information. Everything seems fine, save for the delay, which is not constant; sometimes it advances immediately after the shot us complete, and sometimes it takes a two-count for the mirror to return and the film advance. It's intermittent, but has been happening once or twice a roll of 120 film. Does the 645N have a low-battery indicator? I'm still learning my way around the camera.

11-09-2020, 01:16 PM	#4
asahijock Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Northants, England Posts: 167	Originally posted by htolino Thanks for the response ad the information. Everything seems fine, save for the delay, which is not constant; sometimes it advances immediately after the shot us complete, and sometimes it takes a two-count for the mirror to return and the film advance. It's intermittent, but has been happening once or twice a roll of 120 film. Does the 645N have a low-battery indicator? I'm still learning my way around the camera. Yes and it is worth getting an instruction manual for it which explains a lot about how to operate the camera asahijock

11-09-2020, 02:44 PM	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by htolino I'm still learning my way around the camera. Originally posted by asahijock Yes and it is worth getting an instruction manual for it which explains a lot about how to operate the camera ...and of course the helpful link to the manual! Pentax Manuals \| Medium Format (if asked, password for the pdf is "Pentax") Steve

11-09-2020, 03:04 PM	#6
asahijock Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Northants, England Posts: 167	Thanks Steve I had no idea that such a resource existed. Is this a separate website or is there a way from this forum to the manuals? asahijock

11-10-2020, 06:27 AM	#7
htolino Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 10 Original Poster	Good Morning. Thanks again for the information; I've downloaded the manual and can see that there's a 'low battery' warning on the LCD. Unfortunately, 1) it only comes on if the batteries are low - it's not a 'fuel gauge;' and 2) it's not showing on my camera. I suppose that there's a chance that the batteries might be marginal; I'll check for the warning icon the next time I experience the pause. And I'll still buy some new batteries. All that said: does anyone have any other suggestions as to what might cause the intermittent delay after making a shot?

11-10-2020, 11:01 AM	#8
yurihuta Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Washington DC, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 632	Originally posted by htolino All that said: does anyone have any other suggestions as to what might cause the intermittent delay after making a shot? Any chance you are running 120 film through a 220 film insert?

11-10-2020, 12:09 PM	#9
htolino Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 10 Original Poster	Good thought. But it's a 120 insert; also the film advances to the end (as expected) after the 16th shot.

11-11-2020, 05:24 AM	#10
asahijock Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Northants, England Posts: 167	Have your tried a fresh set of batteries yet? It's worth a shot. Even if it makes no difference you can always swop back to your existing batteries and keep the new ones in reserve. Just a very long shot but are your current batteries sourced from a reliable company such as Duracell or other recognised battery company? I once bought a set of batteries from a seller on a market stall. They were incredibly cheap and they worked fine at first but within maybe a week they lost power and were useless very soon after. asahijock

11-11-2020, 06:09 AM	#11
htolino Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 10 Original Poster	I'm going to pick up some fresh batteries this weekend; I'll inspect all the contacts and such while I'm at it. I've read mixed opinions on Lithium AA cells - any thoughts?

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11-13-2020, 03:07 PM	#12
htolino Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 10 Original Poster	Just an update: I just cleaned the battery contacts with a pencil eraser, installed a fresh set of Energizer Lithium batteries, and ran a scrap roll of film through the camera. Same results. It seems to be happening in the middle of the roll, if that’s significant. I watched the LCD for the entire roll, and the low battery icon never came on.

11-14-2020, 08:15 AM	#13
asahijock Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Northants, England Posts: 167	Originally posted by htolino Just an update: I just cleaned the battery contacts with a pencil eraser, installed a fresh set of Energizer Lithium batteries, and ran a scrap roll of film through the camera. Same results. It seems to be happening in the middle of the roll, if that’s significant. . Are you relying on your ears so to speak to detect the increase in the pause? Does this increase in the pause last from the mid-roll to the end or does it get better towards the end of the roll? Once you have taken the last shot is there the same length of pause and once it begins winding the roll to the end is this continuous without hesitation at all? It might be worth using a stop watch to time each frame wind-on to be certain that there is a definite difference in the wind-on time as the roll is used up. You'd need a stop watch that works in at least tenths of a second and one hundredths might be better. How many rolls have been through the camera since you discovered the fault? Is it getting better, worse or no change? If I had a scrap 120 roll I'd try this myself and report back with my findings but I don't and currently I don't have a film loaded. Maybe others with scrap rolls could try their cameras' hesitation to compare notes If no-one volunteers then you might seek out a few film P645 users from the forum and seek their views via a PM Finally a long shot but have you examined your insert to see if there could be anything in it that is causing this moment's hesitation I am out of suggestions now, short of the usual one of taking or sending it to a qualified repairman and seeking help there asahijock

11-14-2020, 09:46 AM	#14
htolino Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 10 Original Poster	I really appreciate all of your help. When the camera behaves normally, I hear the mirror clunk and it immediatel advances to the next frame. When it doesn’t, I can actually count two seconds (as in One-Mississippi Two-Mississippi) before the film advances. It seems to happen in the middle of a roll; shots at the beginning and the end are fine. Swapping the insert is a good idea. I’ll see if I have any scrap 220 film and try the 220 insert that came with the camera. Thanks again for the help.

11-15-2020, 07:37 PM	#15
yurihuta Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Washington DC, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 632	I had two of my 645N bodies serviced by a fellow in Arizona named Jaron Ball. One of the bodies have a film transport issue which he fixed (this was a recent purchase and I sent it off as a precaution). He did a CLA on both as well. I have a third 645N body in his shop for some more intensive work. Jaron has a youtube channel where he shows repairs being done to a 645 FA 75mm lens and 645N bodies (and other gear too). I contact him through Instagram - Login ? Instagram. He is 3D printing parts for the 645N (shutter speed dial and the battery holder) and also has designed and built circuit boards for Nimslo cameras. Originally posted by htolino I’ve recently purchased a clean Pentax 645N. I’ve shot two rolls of C-41 so far; got the first set back from the lab and they look fine. But I have noticed something odd. Occasionally, the shutter will fire and the mirror clunk as expected, but there’s a delay before winding the film for the next exposure. It almost seems like the shutter locked up, save that after a second or so the film will advance and the camera works normally. Exposures on my test roll seem fine, and the expected exposure information is written on the film border. I’m going to try a fresh set of batteries. Other than that, is this something to worry about?