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11-17-2008, 09:02 AM   #1
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6x7 and KEH

I'm thinking about a 6x7 outfit from KEH -- probably not a lot more expensive than off the 'bay, and it would come with a guarantee. My success rate at auctions is rotten lately, paypal was no help the last time I was sent useless trash that had been listed as "like new", and I'm not about to go there again for something like this.

But I'm a little confused about how KEH prices the 6x7 outfits: specifically, the prices for one with "pentaprism" are $70 higher than the equivalent listed with "TTL". Maybe I misunderstand, but I read "TTL" as metered and "pentaprism" as unmetered. Shouldn't the prices be the other way around, or what am I missing?

Guess I could ask THEM, instead of you guys..... :-)

11-17-2008, 09:43 AM   #2
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They can be very helpful on the phone. Sales answers the phone until 7:00 PM Eastern time.
Monday might not be the best day to call; for many businesses that is their busiest day.

Chris
11-17-2008, 10:15 AM   #3
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You can trust KEH, plus their grading is very tough. Their excellent plus is what would sell as mint by others.
11-17-2008, 10:39 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisPlatt Quote
They can be very helpful on the phone.
I just called them and was told it was a supply/demand thing; they have a lot more of the metered prisms in stock, so they price them lower. The guy I talked to said he couldn't think of a good reason to get the unmetered prism as things stand now.

11-24-2008, 04:41 PM   #5
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well, durn.

Sooooo... I ordered a 6x7 kit from KEH and it arrived today, sadly broken. They were really nice on the phone and asked me to send it right back for replacement. Before I do, let me describe what I found -- maybe I'll learn a thing or two from someone here who owns one of these. All I know is from reading an online user's manual at butkus.org, and from handling this one.

1. A corner of one of the "wings" at the top front of the camera is broken off, where it would normally work as part of the enclosure for the viewfinder. The viewfinder still snaps in just fine, so I could have considered this a cosmetic issue (the broken-off part was hopping around loose in the package, and maybe it can be epoxied back into place). Except:

2. Nothing I do will turn on the TTL meter. The needle is pegged at the bottom. I know the battery is good; the check-battery light works, and I've also replaced it with a new battery, which acts the same. The on-off switch on the pentaprism stays centered except when you momentarily move it to the 'on' or 'off' side -- I suspect that is normal, but again, the needle is always pegged at the bottom no matter what. I did try re-mounting the lens afterward, to no effect.

3. The aperture-coupling lever (I assume that's what it is) in the top of the lens mount moves around freely, where I would expect it to be spring loaded. To mount a lens (it took a while to figure this out) I have to rotate that lever all the way to the left first. This isn't normal, is it? I bet it has something to do with the metering problem.

So, alas, I won't have a 6x7 on my upcoming holiday trip. I'll be sending back the body and prism tomorrow for replacement, keeping the lens and handle here to reduce the shipping. The first thing the guy at KEH asked me is whether the shipping box showed any damage, but it didn't, so I have to assume the body was broken in handling before it was packed, or while they were packing it.

Sucks, eh? Still, when this is over I trust I'll be pleased with it. I've never heard anything but good about KEH.
11-24-2008, 06:48 PM   #6
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On no. 2, the switch moves back to the mid-position - that's normal

On no. 3, it is safest to remove the lens before mounting the TTL viewfinder. Or else the aperture coupling could suffer. And yes, the aperture coupling is spring loaded.
11-24-2008, 07:35 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ole Quote
...Or else the aperture coupling could suffer.
Hm, good to know. My first thought on reading that was to try to remember what I attached first after opening the package. Fairly sure it was the viewfinder, since I wanted to know whether it would fit at all after seeing part of the top of the body broken, so I don't think I damaged the coupling. But it had to go back in any event.
12-11-2008, 01:09 PM   #8
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they are in no hurry

Me trying to buy a camera from KEH:

Nov. 18, I order the 6x7 kit.

Nov. 24, Said kit arrives, but in unusable condition. Gory details in the earlier posts in this thread.

Nov. 25, I send it back for exchange.

Dec. 2, UPS tracking says the package has been delivered. I call KEH. They say it takes, on average, a week to process returns.

Today, Dec. 11, Having waited a week and a half to demonstrate my reasonableness and patience, I call in again. This time I am told it takes, on average, a week and half to process returns, but since this is an exchange they'll try to move it to the front of the line.

No promises, no predictions, no indication of when I can expect something to happen.

If it weren't for all the glowing reports I hear and read about this business, I'd be on the phone with the credit card company right now. I am NOT happy.

Doubtless my attitude will flip when a box arrives with a fully functioning P67 (yes, I am paying for an upgrade, as this 6x7 was their last in its grade), even if that's next year. But criminy, guys....

12-11-2008, 07:46 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sluggo Quote
Me trying to buy a camera from KEH:

Nov. 18, I order the 6x7 kit.

Nov. 24, Said kit arrives, but in unusable condition. Gory details in the earlier posts in this thread.

Nov. 25, I send it back for exchange.

Dec. 2, UPS tracking says the package has been delivered. I call KEH. They say it takes, on average, a week to process returns.

Today, Dec. 11, Having waited a week and a half to demonstrate my reasonableness and patience, I call in again. This time I am told it takes, on average, a week and half to process returns, but since this is an exchange they'll try to move it to the front of the line.

No promises, no predictions, no indication of when I can expect something to happen.

If it weren't for all the glowing reports I hear and read about this business, I'd be on the phone with the credit card company right now. I am NOT happy.

Doubtless my attitude will flip when a box arrives with a fully functioning P67 (yes, I am paying for an upgrade, as this 6x7 was their last in its grade), even if that's next year. But criminy, guys....
I hear you. At least you could even get on the phone with them. In my case, it gets really expensive to follow-up on orders via phone, so my resort is to e-mail them, which takes them a really, really long time to respond.

But, like you said, once the package arrives and everything checks out, you're okay with KEH again. Dealing with them takes a bit of patience, but they're honest people.
12-19-2008, 04:12 PM   #10
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Update: I have a tracking number.
12-19-2008, 06:37 PM   #11
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Typically retailers will take up to 30 days to credit your charge card once a return is processed.
It's usually much faster to just buy another while waiting to be credited for your return.

Chris
12-24-2008, 07:12 AM   #12
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It's cool now. The replacement arrived yesterday, in pretty damn minty shape.

They said there had been some crossing of wires there, and exchanges for defect/damage normally don't take them nearly this long, and I have no problem believing it.

Everything works as it should, and the maiden roll of Delta 100 is hanging to dry right now. It seems to have nicely exposed pictures on it, some using the meter, some using a Sunpak 383 flash fired from the wood handle's cold shoe.
12-24-2008, 09:17 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sluggo Quote
It's cool now. The replacement arrived yesterday, in pretty damn minty shape.

They said there had been some crossing of wires there, and exchanges for defect/damage normally don't take them nearly this long, and I have no problem believing it.

Everything works as it should, and the maiden roll of Delta 100 is hanging to dry right now. It seems to have nicely exposed pictures on it, some using the meter, some using a Sunpak 383 flash fired from the wood handle's cold shoe.
Congratulations on your new camera!!!..

The following are the components of your new system, correct??..

Pentax 67 body
67 Metered Pentaprism finder
67 Wooden Grip w/ cold shoe
SMC 67 55mm f4.0 wide angle lens (latest version of this lens??)

What did you use to connect the Sunpak 383 flash to the camera??..

How did you find the process of using flash with this camera??..

One generally sees little written on the web concerning flash use with any of the Pentax 6x7 cameras, other than the inconvenience of the P67's slow flash sync speed..

I am very interested in how a complete newcomer to the P67 camera has found its operation, especially with flash..

Even over on photo.net, where there are many experienced Pentax 6x7 users, flash is seldom spoken about, other than to generally discourage its use..

I was curious as to whether this was another "Urban Myth", similar to the one about not being able to handhold this camera..

Do you think that the Sunpak 383 flash would work as a walk-about flash to use in those city / street photography situations where one might require more than available light??..

I am considering a similar outfit for myself, although with the SMC 67 75mm f2.8 AL wide angle lens instead of the 55mm f4.0 lens that you chose..

How did you find the brightness of the viewfinder??..

I am 54 years old with not the best eyesight..I was wondering whether to go with a P67, or to save up for the P67II with its slightly brighter viewfinder, and greater eye relief..

Thanks for your answers!!!..

Happy Holidays!!!..

Bruce
12-24-2008, 09:49 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by baltochef920 Quote
Pentax 67 body
67 Metered Pentaprism finder
67 Wooden Grip w/ cold shoe
SMC 67 55mm f4.0 wide angle lens (latest version of this lens??)
Yes, I think it's the latest version of the 55mm lens. At least, it's not the enormous (100mm diameter) f/3.5 version.

I also got the 105mm f/2.4 standard lens. The 75mm probably makes good sense for an all-purpose lens, but I guess I'm used to distinct 50mm/28mm 'modes' of composition on 35mm cameras, and this setup duplicates that fairly closely.

QuoteQuote:
What did you use to connect the Sunpak 383 flash to the camera??..
A PC sync cord maybe 8 inches long. It came in a box of junk in an auction some time ago, and happens to fit the Sunpak's jack, but I'm not sure how standardized they are, because it doesn't fit a couple of other flashes I have.

I won't comment on the quality of the flash pictures yet before I've had a chance to scan the negs. The flash was on auto mode, just set the aperture to match and the shutter speed to X. I've always liked using bounce/swivel flashes in black and white because it's possible to go off any combination of ceiling and walls without worrying about whether a color cast is being added.

QuoteQuote:
How did you find the brightness of the viewfinder??..
Certainly much easier to use than the one in my *istDL. Maybe not a big step up from a good 35mm viewfinder (LX, ME Super, etc). Still, this is very short acquaintance so far.
12-24-2008, 11:51 AM   #15
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Haha. Actually, I used to do weddings with 6x7's, usually non-MLU types, at that, and with either one of those Sunpak handlemounts or my ol' standby 285HVs.


Yes, it can be done, even for someone of small, err, overall mass. (I seem to recall being caught muttering, '35mm-like handling? Who said that, Andre the Giant?") It hurts, but if you think in slow-synch, (I don't like trying to light up the whole room and then make the subjects look OK, anyway. I like my flash to be pretty minimal) it works fine.

If you're shooting a lot outdoors, though, you're SOL without a leaf shutter, pretty much. The way I'd do it was really you'd have to look ahead and pick your shots. Things like pick your spot where the light's going to be OK ahead of time for when the couple exit the church or temple, watch your film and keep track of where you'll have to reload (no interchangeable backs, you need to account for the time this takes...) And have 35mm set up for the faster-moving stuff and covering any gaps that crop up.

But it can be done. It's the hard way in many ways, but I wouldn't have kept doing it that way if it didn't give such results. (And to be honest a major factor was that I could often borrow a 6x7 and not pay any rental on it, changing it up would have slowed me down just as much, but it can work. )

(Oh, and I don't remember any particular details about the cord. Whatever I got. As for the finder, the image is big, and though the lenses are slow, I don't remember any gripes that way, even with the old ones. But at the time I had real eagle-eyes. )

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 12-24-2008 at 11:58 AM.
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