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02-17-2021, 07:43 PM - 2 Likes   #16
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Say Sony were to announce development of a 100Mpx "true 645" format sensor in a week or so; what would be the direction of conversation? Remember which maker already has a full spread of "true 645" format lenses?


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02-17-2021, 07:52 PM   #17
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I know there has been a lot of discussion on here about the relative merits of going for 100Mpx 33x44mm versus a (near enough) full frame 645 camera (either 100Mpx or 150Mpx). Personally, I'd welcome any of those options, provided high ISO noise at pixel level is at least as good as the current 645Z - and price is competitive with the Fuji bodies. Don't know how I'd afford it, but I'd certainly find a way!
02-17-2021, 08:23 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
I guess all we can do is wait and see... We have all put forward our preferences/wishes on other recent threads that, one might hope, are picked up by Pentax
No evidence they are even members here, Ed.

This is a privately run site, not Japanese, not connected with Ricoh in any way.

It has links to BHPhoto and Adorama, if anything. I think BH still have a staff member answering in a thread.
02-17-2021, 08:34 PM - 1 Like   #19
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I heard that Ricoh decided (a few days ago) to bring forward the release date of the new 645zii..... but to do this they had to reassign some of the stock of K3iii parts to do this....... then I woke up.

02-17-2021, 08:42 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
No evidence they are even members here, Ed.

This is a privately run site, not Japanese, not connected with Ricoh in any way.

It has links to BHPhoto and Adorama, if anything. I think BH still have a staff member answering in a thread.

They don't seem to be members, but let's just say that I have reason to believe this site is looked at. That's very different from our views directly influencing decisions, of course, but it's something.
02-17-2021, 09:17 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
They don't seem to be members, but let's just say that I have reason to believe this site is looked at. That's very different from our views directly influencing decisions, of course, but it's something.
Very different.

People have agendas and can attempt to mount publicity campaigns here, but there is no evidence that the campaigns to have 4k video over the years, support the Q mount or even a flippy screen on the K3-III ever got back to anyone in charge, let alone played part of some exec's decision making.

You know that Pentax do a survey every now and again but really rely on the advice of selected pros like Motoyuki Kobayashi.

I think *you* would have more influence than this website because I know you have some connections with the Australian Pentax distributor, at least.

You remember Ken Sporsheim, who was a member here? I liked him, great character. Now, he was an actual Ricoh Scandinavia ambassador - on their payroll - and he said Tokyo didn't pay attention to him.

So, they go by trusted individuals (who are shooting with the K-3 III now, apparently) rather than the great contradictory unwashed gaijin masses of the Internet.

And for a niche brand, that makes especially good sense.

Last edited by clackers; 02-18-2021 at 04:11 PM.
02-17-2021, 09:29 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
How many 645z sensors do they have left?
Good question. Rumors by some Fuji people is that the GFX100s was pushed out a early. The $10,000 GFX100 is only a year old and now Fuji is releasing the 100s at $6,000. Apparently the 50s and 50r (same sensor as the 645z) are out of production. Fuji would have liked to have ran the 50s/50r one more year and leave the GFX100 alone at the top and then release the 100s. Fuji has been selling the 50s/50r remarkably well.


I did some marketing work for a window and door manufacturer 10 or so years ago and while walking the plant floor they told me that they only had enough inventory on hand to run the plant for 12 hours. Different parts suppliers are constantly delivering the needed parts to keep production going 24/7. Then he started talking about how Toyota revolutionized manufacturing and supply-chain management. most your major manufacturers only keep a few hours worth of inventory.

I have no idea how cameras are made, but inventory is not desirable for most modern manufacturing. If Ricoh has any 645z sensors they are probably sitting in 645z bodies in a warehouse.
02-17-2021, 10:44 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I have no idea how cameras are made, but inventory is not desirable for most modern manufacturing. If Ricoh has any 645z sensors they are probably sitting in 645z bodies in a warehouse.

I'm glad that wasn't totally true a few months back, when my body had to have a new sensor fitted

02-17-2021, 11:41 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I did some marketing work for a window and door manufacturer 10 or so years ago and while walking the plant floor they told me that they only had enough inventory on hand to run the plant for 12 hours. Different parts suppliers are constantly delivering the needed parts to keep production going 24/7. Then he started talking about how Toyota revolutionized manufacturing and supply-chain management. most your major manufacturers only keep a few hours worth of inventory.

I have no idea how cameras are made, but inventory is not desirable for most modern manufacturing. If Ricoh has any 645z sensors they are probably sitting in 645z bodies in a warehouse.
That philosophy came crashing down in the age of COVID.
02-18-2021, 12:01 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Good question. Rumors by some Fuji people is that the GFX100s was pushed out a early. The $10,000 GFX100 is only a year old and now Fuji is releasing the 100s at $6,000. Apparently the 50s and 50r (same sensor as the 645z) are out of production. Fuji would have liked to have ran the 50s/50r one more year and leave the GFX100 alone at the top and then release the 100s. Fuji has been selling the 50s/50r remarkably well.


I did some marketing work for a window and door manufacturer 10 or so years ago and while walking the plant floor they told me that they only had enough inventory on hand to run the plant for 12 hours. Different parts suppliers are constantly delivering the needed parts to keep production going 24/7. Then he started talking about how Toyota revolutionized manufacturing and supply-chain management. most your major manufacturers only keep a few hours worth of inventory.

I have no idea how cameras are made, but inventory is not desirable for most modern manufacturing. If Ricoh has any 645z sensors they are probably sitting in 645z bodies in a warehouse.
And electronics companies worshipping at the alter off "just in time", and using AKM chips, are paying dearly now.

Thanks,
barondla
02-18-2021, 02:03 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Say Sony were to announce development of a 100Mpx "true 645" format sensor in a week or so; what would be the direction of conversation? Remember which maker already has a full spread of "true 645" format lenses?
Steve
This 100Mpx "true 645" already exists, or existed : it was released almost at the same date as the 50Mpx 33x44 sensor we know. I would think it is about to be discontinued too, as it is not visible in the product portfolio linked in the first message...

And the fact that the 50Mpx used in the 645Z is discontinued is not new : it disappeared from Sony's map last year. Since then, Hasselblad has released 2 new cameras with that sensor
02-18-2021, 02:33 AM   #27
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And here was I about to put my whole 645 kit on the Marketplace.

All my 645 lenses are full frame, so a full-ish frame 645Z successor would be a game changer. 100Mp would be more than adequate for my humble needs.
02-18-2021, 02:50 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Good question. Rumors by some Fuji people is that the GFX100s was pushed out a early. The $10,000 GFX100 is only a year old and now Fuji is releasing the 100s at $6,000. Apparently the 50s and 50r (same sensor as the 645z) are out of production. Fuji would have liked to have ran the 50s/50r one more year and leave the GFX100 alone at the top and then release the 100s. Fuji has been selling the 50s/50r remarkably well.


I did some marketing work for a window and door manufacturer 10 or so years ago and while walking the plant floor they told me that they only had enough inventory on hand to run the plant for 12 hours. Different parts suppliers are constantly delivering the needed parts to keep production going 24/7. Then he started talking about how Toyota revolutionized manufacturing and supply-chain management. most your major manufacturers only keep a few hours worth of inventory.

I have no idea how cameras are made, but inventory is not desirable for most modern manufacturing. If Ricoh has any 645z sensors they are probably sitting in 645z bodies in a warehouse.
If there is any EOL components needed for production they will keep them on stock, or more likely the sub-contractor that produce the electronics Ricoh use will keep the stock of the EOL components they need for the forseeable future. Sony would have given Ricoh/sub-contractor a notice at least 6 month ahead of the discontinuing of an image sensor to let them plan for a last time buy.
02-18-2021, 04:30 AM - 1 Like   #29
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Upgrading the 645 line to the 102MP sensor is the absolute minimum that Ricoh need to do to compete with Fujifilm in MF. If the 50MP sensor has been discontinued then that will be the end of the line for Fujifilm's lower resolution MF cameras too. It really all depends if Pentax want to continue with MF digital at all or leave the market almost entirely to Fujifilm.
02-18-2021, 05:54 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
Upgrading the 645 line to the 102MP sensor is the absolute minimum that Ricoh need to do to compete with Fujifilm in MF. If the 50MP sensor has been discontinued then that will be the end of the line for Fujifilm's lower resolution MF cameras too. It really all depends if Pentax want to continue with MF digital at all or leave the market almost entirely to Fujifilm.
Not much of a competition except for the format. The Pentax is a field camera with a splendid viewfinder that is not dependent on the use of electricity to work. Pentax also have a huge used market for lenses at ridiculously cheap prices making the system unsurpassed in value if one take that route....
I cannot see that they appeal to same customers. Pentax and Fuji didn't in the film days either....
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