Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-18-2021, 06:55 AM - 2 Likes   #31
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 37,238
QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
They don't seem to be members, but let's just say that I have reason to believe this site is looked at. That's very different from our views directly influencing decisions, of course, but it's something.
Absolutely. A few years ago when I went to Henry's exposure in Toronto after I introduced myself the guy went straight to the display case and pulled out a then new 560 and handed it to me. ( I didn't ask for it, I knew it was too long looking at it in the display case.) He knew who I was. They seemed quite disappointed when I said it was too long physically for my use, I needed more compact lenses. But we had a great time talking about "Lenses for the way people take pictures and not for the test charts" and the rest of it.

They never made me my compact 560... there's a difference between being acknowledged and having influence. But I do think they pay attention.


Last edited by normhead; 02-18-2021 at 07:04 AM.
02-18-2021, 07:05 AM   #32
Forum Member




Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
Upgrading the 645 line to the 102MP sensor is the absolute minimum that Ricoh need to do to compete with Fujifilm in MF. If the 50MP sensor has been discontinued then that will be the end of the line for Fujifilm's lower resolution MF cameras too. It really all depends if Pentax want to continue with MF digital at all or leave the market almost entirely to Fujifilm.
They need to remove the on sensor phase detect pixels from it - to avoid the lines that appear in certain conditions.

The SLR form suits a lot also - and price wise the new 645z 100mp would need to retail at a price point similar to Fuji's offerings

---------- Post added 02-18-21 at 07:12 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
No recent fall in price here in UK. Yet? The price has dropped £2000 since May of last year, which is big drop, but not unexpected taking its long time in the market.
It's still on Wex at £3699. I've now got two

Other than the D850 (soon to be discontinued) these are the two best SLR's you can buy. Buy them whilst you can - they won't always be around and mirrorless will be everywhere unless Pentax make a successor to the K1 and 645z. This way you will have 7 more years of SLR shooting before really feeling the need for an upgrade,and by then mirrorless will be a much more mature proposition.

The company is commited to SLRs - and that's a good stance to take as it makes Pentax a unique player. The k1mk2 needs upgrading to at least 45mp if not 50mp or better still 61mp like the A7r4 - then the 645z upgrade to follow.

Last edited by SFTphotography; 02-18-2021 at 07:32 AM.
02-18-2021, 07:39 AM - 1 Like   #33
Pentaxian
Fogel70's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Photos: Albums
Posts: 2,309
QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
Upgrading the 645 line to the 102MP sensor is the absolute minimum that Ricoh need to do to compete with Fujifilm in MF. If the 50MP sensor has been discontinued then that will be the end of the line for Fujifilm's lower resolution MF cameras too. It really all depends if Pentax want to continue with MF digital at all or leave the market almost entirely to Fujifilm.
Previously Pentax digital 645 have been based on the latest gen APS-C flagship and been released within a year after the APS-C flagship.

645D came 10 month after K7
645Z came 6 month after K3

So we have to wait and see...
But they may put priority on updating FF before 645 this time.
02-18-2021, 08:41 AM   #34
Forum Member




Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Previously Pentax digital 645 have been based on the latest gen APS-C flagship and been released within a year after the APS-C flagship.

645D came 10 month after K7
645Z came 6 month after K3

So we have to wait and see...
But they may put priority on updating FF before 645 this time.
I think they need too - time is going to be called on the 36mp sensor they use for the K1 soon. To not have an FF body on sale would be poor, particularly after releasing a number of decent FF lenses.... - although that would directly mirror Fuji's product line with is just APSC and 44x33 and it hasn't done them any harm. But I think if they are rationalising formats, it'll be the 44x33 - the volume isn't there.

Indeed Pentax offer more sensor grades than any other camera maker with APSC, 35mm, and 44x33. It's a lot to keep on top of. None of this changes the fact that now a 645z is a very compelling price, a brilliant camera and there's lots of glass for all budgets used and new still out there.


Last edited by SFTphotography; 02-18-2021 at 08:49 AM.
02-18-2021, 10:21 AM   #35
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 6,615
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
And electronics companies worshipping at the alter off "just in time", and using AKM chips, are paying dearly now.

Thanks,
barondla
They are, but the cost saving of doing that for the last 20+ years were more than worth it. No one system is perfect. They all have advantages and disadvantages. They are all vulnerable in some way.

---------- Post added 02-18-21 at 11:22 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Ed Hurst Quote
I'm glad that wasn't totally true a few months back, when my body had to have a new sensor fitted
Parts set aside for warranty and repair are completely different than parts for new manufacture. They will keep parts for warranty and repair for years after manufacturing has ceased.
02-18-2021, 10:37 AM   #36
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 37,238
QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
Previously Pentax digital 645 have been based on the latest gen APS-C flagship and been released within a year after the APS-C flagship.

645D came 10 month after K7
645Z came 6 month after K3

So we have to wait and see...
But they may put priority on updating FF before 645 this time.
Pentax themselves said the 645z jumped ahead of the K-1 because the chip became available. From what they said, it was scheduled to have come out later. The evidence points to an availability of new tech being the deciding factor. That would seem to be the case with the K-3iii as well. Originally they said no 4k video and a few other improvements because they didn't have a suitable chip available. It look like as soon as there was a sensor that did what they wanted, they went for it. They've demonstrated they'll change the timetable when new tech becomes available.

NO new K-3 for 4 years, then the 26 MP 4k capable chip comes along and voila.
At least that's my perspective.
02-18-2021, 10:50 AM   #37
Otis Memorial Pentaxian
Loyal Site Supporter
stevebrot's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Vancouver (USA)
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 39,553
QuoteOriginally posted by SylvainB Quote
This 100Mpx "true 645" already exists, or existed
56mm x 41.5mm vs. 53.7×40.4mm?


Steve
02-18-2021, 11:43 AM   #38
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
gofour3's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 7,091
Henry's has a deal on the 645z & FA 645 75MM F2.8.

If you buy the two for $9400CDN you get $3000CDN off the price, so $6400CDN (which is around $4937.00 USD) for the two. That's better than the B&H price for the 645z alone.

Phil.

02-18-2021, 02:16 PM   #39
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Goldsboro North Carolina
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,982
QuoteOriginally posted by zjacreman Quote
It has been like that for awhile. Can even get an FA 75mm thrown in for that price.
Yes! B&H currently shows the body only for $4999 and body with 75mm for $4999. Act quick before they discover the typo? Oh, wait. You were making a statement, not asking a question.
02-18-2021, 02:24 PM   #40
Forum Member




Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Bogota
Photos: Albums
Posts: 99
QuoteOriginally posted by Apet-Sure Quote
Act quick before they discover the typo?
That's just the going deal. On Adorama it is more explicit.
02-19-2021, 03:03 AM   #41
Pentaxian
Wasp's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Pretoria
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,491
I find myself wondering how much research and development would be needed to bring out a 645Z II. It is probably not just a matter of changing the sensor and leaving the rest as is. With double the resolution, the CPU needs to crunch more data. To do it in a reasonable time, more power is called for. Writing out this new volume of data also means new and improved buffering, card interface etc. Any new camera these days must do 4K video, even if it is not really relevant.

How willing Ricoh is to spend the money, time will tell. I am not holding my breath. The entry level medium format market used to be Pentax territory. Fujifilm may have it cornered already. Even Hasselblad has moved down market in recent times. There might be room for both mirrorless and SLR models in the segment, but the 645Z is falling behind. With the relaxed pace of the K3 III rollout in mind, I wouldn't be surprised to see the 645Z go quietly into the night.
02-19-2021, 07:39 AM - 1 Like   #42
Pentaxian
Jonathan Mac's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 7,353
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Not much of a competition except for the format. The Pentax is a field camera with a splendid viewfinder that is not dependent on the use of electricity to work. Pentax also have a huge used market for lenses at ridiculously cheap prices making the system unsurpassed in value if one take that route....
I cannot see that they appeal to same customers. Pentax and Fuji didn't in the film days either....
I think people looking to get into MF digital will look at all the options available in their price range and the decision would likely come down to size/weight and lens selection. While Pentax has a lot of old lenses available, most are noisy screw-drive ones from the film days and all can be adapted for manual focus on a Fuji MF camera. I suspect that most people getting into digital MF are not as frugal as the many APS-C or FF users who buy old film lenses partly to play with and partly because they're so much cheaper. People buy into MF for performance and IQ. Performance-wise, the only things against Fujifilm are their EVF (vs OVF) and the reflections off the sensor that can degrade IQ on mirrorless cameras, which is a real problem, and not one you want when paying out the big bucks for gear.

I think there's a lot of competition in there and Fuji are really putting a lot of energy into fighting for their share.

QuoteOriginally posted by SFTphotography Quote
They need to remove the on sensor phase detect pixels from it - to avoid the lines that appear in certain conditions.
I'm waiting to see if there will be sensors for SLRs only which don't have the AF pixels that lead to banding. So far the companies putting them in cameras seem to be quite happy to use them in DSLRs and thereby gain the mirrorless-level AF that they can provide. I suspect that all sensors will have those AF pixels in the future, whether we like it or not. I doubt that Pentax have the clout to get a competitive price for sensors specifically made without them, especially given that at least some proportion of prospective buyers will prefer to have them for the AF benefits even if it impacts IQ.
02-19-2021, 07:46 AM   #43
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 37,238
QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
Any new camera these days must do 4K video, even if it is not really relevant.
With the new chips coming 4k video ready, do they ever really have a choice? It' already here built into the chips, the question will be how good their implementation is.
02-19-2021, 08:11 AM   #44
Forum Member




Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 69
QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote

I'm waiting to see if there will be sensors for SLRs only which don't have the AF pixels that lead to banding. So far the companies putting them in cameras seem to be quite happy to use them in DSLRs and thereby gain the mirrorless-level AF that they can provide. I suspect that all sensors will have those AF pixels in the future, whether we like it or not. I doubt that Pentax have the clout to get a competitive price for sensors specifically made without them, especially given that at least some proportion of prospective buyers will prefer to have them for the AF benefits even if it impacts IQ.
The D850 doesn't have the AF pixels - the Z7i and II does so the banding shows on the Z but not the 850 - which otherwise share the same sensor.

Not sure what other camera's share sensors between DSLR and mirrorless.

The proof of the pudding will be in the future DSLR releases.

Grab these 645's and D850's / K1's whilst you can - they might be the last of a great breed.
02-19-2021, 08:26 AM   #45
Pentaxian
normhead's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Near Algonquin Park
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 37,238
QuoteOriginally posted by SFTphotography Quote
Grab these 645's and D850's / K1's whilst you can - they might be the last of a great breed.
When you consider that there are ways a K-1 is inferior to a K-5, frame rate for example, the trend to more of what you don't want and less of what you want may continue, it certainly seems to be a trend.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
4k, 645d, 645z, camera, distance, fujifilm, images, k-1, line, market, medium format, mf, mirrorless, pentax, price, repair, res, resolution, sensor, shame, tv, warranty
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fuji will launch a Medium Format camera with the Sony 50MP sensor this summer! jogiba Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 49 01-29-2016 12:09 PM
Canon to possibly use Sony 50MP sensor ? interested_observer Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 2 01-28-2015 10:09 PM
Sony 50MP Full Frame Sensors Coming in 2015… altopiet Pentax Full Frame 170 12-28-2014 12:36 AM
New Pentax 645D2014 also uses the 50MP Sony CMOS sensor! ElJamoquio Pentax News and Rumors 442 03-21-2014 12:57 AM
Phase One announces IQ250 50MP CMOS medium format back with Sony sensor jogiba Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 8 03-04-2014 12:30 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:03 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top