Can 645Z live view counter a 9 stop ND filter?

**barondla** · 05-05-2021, 07:48 PM

Want to try a 9 stop ND filter with the new to me DFA 25 lens. A drop in filter has to be in the lens for proper focusing. Will live view be able to overcome a 9 stop filter to allow manual focus and composing? Hope I don't have to insert clear filter, focus and compose, replace clear filter with ND filter then shoot.

Thanks,
barondla

**Ed Hurst** · 05-05-2021, 08:34 PM - **1 Like**

I guess it depends how bright the scene is. But I'd say, in many situations, not really. Mind you, the difference the filter makes to focusing distance is not great if the lens is stopped down (which it might be if you're going for a long exposure anyway). So I'd say focus without the filter and let the depth of field take care of any focusing difference that occurs once you get the filter in.

stevebrot · 05-05-2021, 09:36 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by barondla

Can 645Z live view counter a 9 stop ND filter?

I am thinking no...My experience with live view is that it does not see well in the dark.

Steve

**clackers** · 05-05-2021, 09:42 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by barondla

Want to try a 9 stop ND filter with the new to me DFA 25 lens. A drop in filter has to be in the lens for proper focusing. Will live view be able to overcome a 9 stop filter to allow manual focus and composing? Hope I don't have to insert clear filter, focus and compose, replace clear filter with ND filter then shoot.

But that's the normal process, right?

stevebrot · 05-05-2021, 10:23 PM - **1 Like**

Perhaps an external filter holder similar to that in the post linked below:

645Z 25mm F4 DA AL (IF) AW- what a lens! - PentaxForums.com

LucrOit 165mm Pro Simple Kit with Pentax smc DA 645 25mm f/4 AL (IF) SDM AW Adapter ring - LucrOit · Especialistas en fotografía

Steve

chrism888 · 05-05-2021, 10:40 PM - **1 Like**

I've used a 10 stop on my 645z and live view has coped with it well

Sandy Hancock · 05-05-2021, 11:42 PM - **1 Like**

I never used either of the ND's with my DFA645 25/4.0, but they will come with the bundle. So you'll find out soon enough

My guess is that you should compose and focus with the clear filter, then switch the ND in afterwards. Pretty much by definition, if you're using a big stopper, you're not in a hurry. I agree it's a fiddly solution though.

**othar** · 05-05-2021, 11:52 PM - **1 Like**

During daytime I can focus with my K-3s LV with a 10 stop ND filter on, my guess is your 645Z can too

**Ed Hurst** · 05-06-2021, 12:38 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

I never used either of the ND's with my DFA645 25/4.0, but they will come with the bundle. So you'll find out soon enough

My guess is that you should compose and focus with the clear filter, then switch the ND in afterwards. Pretty much by definition, if you're using a big stopper, you're not in a hurry. I agree it's a fiddly solution though.

All the more reason to have two holders, as per other threads :-)

**TDvN57** · 05-06-2021, 01:13 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by stevebrot

I am thinking no...My experience with live view is that it does not see well in the dark.

Steve

Apologies for slightly of topic.... I found live view can see s lot in the dark if you crank up the iso and reduce the shutter speed. It seems as if the camera tries to mimic a wysiwyg effect. Once you are ready to take the picture, you return the iso and shutter speeds to what you want, and the live view goes dark again.

**ProfessorBuzz** · 05-06-2021, 04:45 AM - **1 Like**

This is the one area where I prefer my K1 to my 645Z. TDvN57 has the solution.
The 645z seems to be trying to match what your eye sees, not the ultimate capabilities of the sensor.
I wish Pentax had a firmware option to improve this.

MJKoski · 05-06-2021, 05:42 AM - **1 Like**

You must demand a firmware fix for this. All it needs is a frame accumulator which Sony has in their MILCs (Bright Monitoring). User can then see milky way (or use 15 stop ND) even with a bit dim lens with the liveview. Allthough it might be a bit problematic to expect an update to the Z these days.

jslifoaw · 05-06-2021, 05:53 AM - **1 Like**

Just doing some high level estimates, 9 stops is within the range of the difference between daytime and indoors at night with electric lighting. So focusing during the day with a 9 stop ND might not be much different than focusing with a lens with an ND in your home at night.

And as others said, if you're planning to stop down, you could probably estimate focus. But I think liveview might work if it's bright enough outdoors (when you likely need the ND, unless you're doing very long exposures)

05-05-2021, 07:48 PM	#1
barondla Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: midwest, United States Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,715	Can 645Z live view counter a 9 stop ND filter? Want to try a 9 stop ND filter with the new to me DFA 25 lens. A drop in filter has to be in the lens for proper focusing. Will live view be able to overcome a 9 stop filter to allow manual focus and composing? Hope I don't have to insert clear filter, focus and compose, replace clear filter with ND filter then shoot. Thanks, barondla

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05-05-2021, 08:34 PM - 1 Like	#2
Ed Hurst Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,657	I guess it depends how bright the scene is. But I'd say, in many situations, not really. Mind you, the difference the filter makes to focusing distance is not great if the lens is stopped down (which it might be if you're going for a long exposure anyway). So I'd say focus without the filter and let the depth of field take care of any focusing difference that occurs once you get the filter in.

05-05-2021, 09:36 PM - 1 Like	#3
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by barondla Can 645Z live view counter a 9 stop ND filter? I am thinking no...My experience with live view is that it does not see well in the dark. Steve

05-05-2021, 09:42 PM - 1 Like	#4
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by barondla Want to try a 9 stop ND filter with the new to me DFA 25 lens. A drop in filter has to be in the lens for proper focusing. Will live view be able to overcome a 9 stop filter to allow manual focus and composing? Hope I don't have to insert clear filter, focus and compose, replace clear filter with ND filter then shoot. But that's the normal process, right?

05-05-2021, 10:23 PM - 1 Like	#5
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Perhaps an external filter holder similar to that in the post linked below: 645Z 25mm F4 DA AL (IF) AW- what a lens! - PentaxForums.com LucrOit 165mm Pro Simple Kit with Pentax smc DA 645 25mm f/4 AL (IF) SDM AW Adapter ring - LucrOit · Especialistas en fotografía Steve

05-05-2021, 10:40 PM - 1 Like	#6
chrism888 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 178	I've used a 10 stop on my 645z and live view has coped with it well

05-05-2021, 11:42 PM - 1 Like	#7
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	I never used either of the ND's with my DFA645 25/4.0, but they will come with the bundle. So you'll find out soon enough My guess is that you should compose and focus with the clear filter, then switch the ND in afterwards. Pretty much by definition, if you're using a big stopper, you're not in a hurry. I agree it's a fiddly solution though.

05-05-2021, 11:52 PM - 1 Like	#8
othar Site Supporter Join Date: May 2014 Location: Linz Photos: Albums Posts: 3,098	During daytime I can focus with my K-3s LV with a 10 stop ND filter on, my guess is your 645Z can too

05-06-2021, 12:38 AM - 1 Like	#9
Ed Hurst Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,657	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock I never used either of the ND's with my DFA645 25/4.0, but they will come with the bundle. So you'll find out soon enough My guess is that you should compose and focus with the clear filter, then switch the ND in afterwards. Pretty much by definition, if you're using a big stopper, you're not in a hurry. I agree it's a fiddly solution though. All the more reason to have two holders, as per other threads :-)

05-06-2021, 01:13 AM - 1 Like	#10
TDvN57 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Berlin Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,150	Originally posted by stevebrot I am thinking no...My experience with live view is that it does not see well in the dark. Steve Apologies for slightly of topic.... I found live view can see s lot in the dark if you crank up the iso and reduce the shutter speed. It seems as if the camera tries to mimic a wysiwyg effect. Once you are ready to take the picture, you return the iso and shutter speeds to what you want, and the live view goes dark again.

05-06-2021, 04:45 AM - 1 Like	#11
ProfessorBuzz Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2018 Posts: 1,903	This is the one area where I prefer my K1 to my 645Z. TDvN57 has the solution. The 645z seems to be trying to match what your eye sees, not the ultimate capabilities of the sensor. I wish Pentax had a firmware option to improve this.

05-06-2021, 05:42 AM - 1 Like	#12
MJKoski Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 1,784	You must demand a firmware fix for this. All it needs is a frame accumulator which Sony has in their MILCs (Bright Monitoring). User can then see milky way (or use 15 stop ND) even with a bit dim lens with the liveview. Allthough it might be a bit problematic to expect an update to the Z these days.

05-06-2021, 05:53 AM - 1 Like	#13
jslifoaw Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto/Victoria Posts: 460	Just doing some high level estimates, 9 stops is within the range of the difference between daytime and indoors at night with electric lighting. So focusing during the day with a 9 stop ND might not be much different than focusing with a lens with an ND in your home at night. And as others said, if you're planning to stop down, you could probably estimate focus. But I think liveview might work if it's bright enough outdoors (when you likely need the ND, unless you're doing very long exposures)