[Edmunds]

Somebody locally has put a 645Z for sale. I have been intrigued by MF cameras for a long time, and I'm looking to get back into shooting landscapes, which I stopped doing after my kid was born some years ago. Most people have probably owned this camera for a while, and it was state of the art half a decade ago, but things do change. So I'm wondering if this camera still makes sense as a purchase in 2021, and what exactly are the advantages.

The camera in question is well used, and comes in cheaper than a used Sony a7r IV, but slightly more expensive than a Sony a7r III, and much more expensive than a used Sony a7r II. It is slightly cheaper than a Fujifilm GFX 50R or 50S, though the difference isn't much.

Most lenses for Pentax are much cheaper than other systems, but there are exceptions. One thing that really attracts me to the 645Z is the 55mm f/2.8, which is IMO a perfect focal length, as I often find FF 35mm too wide and FF 50mm too narrow. This sits right between the two, which makes it absolutely what I want.

However, the other lens I need is a wide angle. As far as I can see, because this is crop-MF, wide angle options from film era are non-existent. So the only choice is between a mythical 25mm f/4 and a monstrous 28-45mm f/4.5, both of which clock in at well over €2000 used on ebay. Widest I need is mostly a 21mm FF equiv., so I am fine with these focal lengths, but not the prices. They are more expensive than a Sony 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, and there are a plethora of far cheaper options on FF. Additionally, a Sony a7r IV with the 16-35mm f/2.8 is lighter than the Pentax 28-45mm lens alone. So as far as I can see, choice of wide angles is a definite disadvantage for the 645Z. Am I missing something in this respect? Are there any manual or adaptable wide angle lenses that can get around the 20-21mm FF equiv. field of view, deliver sharp images on not cost thousands?

Third lens I need is a long telephoto that can be used for landscapes and full body portraits from a distance that can deliver lots of perspective compression, IMO, Pentax delivers. The 150mm f/2.8 is a perfect lens for the choice, and there are several on ebay for a reasonable price. FF equivalents are several hundred more expensive.

Fujifilm GFX lenses are more expensive. They have only one wide angle, the 23mm f/4, and it costs used slightly cheaper than a Pentax 25mm f/4 (but the availability appears higher), but both of the other lenses would be much more expensive. The 45mm f/2.8 is around €1000 used, and the 110mm f/2.0 (which is not the same as a 150mm f/2.8 obviously, but is the closest thing on GFX) is €1800-2000. At the same time, the difference in prices isn't that massive. Pentax 25mm f/4 + 55mm f/2.8 + 150mm f/2.8 would cost me about €3200. Fujifilm 23mm f/4 + 45mm f/2.8 + 110mm f/2 would be about €5000. That's around €1800 difference.

Since I'm looking to spend thousands of euros, an obvious issue is continuity of the system. A huge plus for Fuji and FF is that there are obviously going to be more and better cameras out. When the time to upgrade comes in around 4-5 years time, I can probably expect the current Fujifilm 100S to cost around €2000-3000 used and all my lenses will work. That said, if I buy the Pentax now, its not like its value will drop to zero in 4-5 years. Even if the system is dead, most of the drop in value has already happened, and it will most likely continue to depreciate by a few hundred euros a year. Not a big deal, honestly.

So overall, I'm really liking the Pentax 645Z. I don't do multi-day hikes anymore, and I hardly ever do full day hikes, mostly I shoot out of my car or the hikes are 3-4h max. So weight and size don't play that much into the equation. I guess my questions are:

Is there a solution to the lack of cheap wide angles? Manual focus lenses? Vertical panos? What do people use to shoot landscapes wider than the 35mm f/3.5 or 33-55mm f/4.5? I could make do with the 25mm f/4, but the 28-45mm f/4.5 would be a hard sell, as its not wide enough, and is quite large.

Say you don't have any landscape gear right now. Would you buy into a 645Z system today? Or would you pick up a more expensive GFX or similarily priced FF?

[D1N0]

I don't think it makes a lot of sense any more. Ricoh hasn't updated the lens roadmap since 2017. They have definitely dropped the ball. Unless you can get a good price on a used one with the lenses you need. Most still have aperture rings, so can be adapted to GFX in future.

[SFTphotography]

I've bought 2 645z's in 2021...why. I wanted to upgrade for full frame (Nikon D810).

Why. I really didn't want a mirrorless set up although the Fuji GFX system is good. I would recommend the 645z system to any landscape photographer.

Trust me - the 28-45 lens is everything a landscape photographer could hope for and more. It is the best UWA zoom I've ever encountered by far. Optically superb. Heavy, yes, expensive, yes...but worth it. 100% yes.

You might be better served with a 45-85 and 80-160 of which eBay will offer up cheap alternatives in the euro400 or so range for each. The 28-45 is however expensive and it really is THE one to get and I suggest you just bite the bullet and get the best UWA zoom lens ever made for a DSLR camera.
Like you most of my hikes aren't that long so the weight isn't an issue.

Here are some with it

[Zygonyx]

Ok, i still prefer using my fixed 25, 35, 55, 75 and 90mm with this Z, because all of them can also work with my 645NII

[chrism888]

I agree with everything SFPphotography has said, I run a Z with a 28 - 45 / 45 - 85 / 80 - 160 plus a 150 F2.8 for portrait work then chuck on some extension tubes and its a superb macro lens

Jump in with both feet, you wont regret it and its a delight to use.

[ProfessorBuzz]

I keep adding to my 645Z. The image quality is excellent as are most of the lenses. For wide, consider the 35mm f/3.5, it is really good value. The 120 f/4 is great for portraits, head shots, that sort of thing.

[texandrews]

You have to decide what your comfort level is. If the future of the system is a nagging issue, then I have to unfortunately suggest you stop thinking and just buy Fuji. I happen to believe the Pentax 645 system is not abandoned, but I have to admit it seems dodgier than the Fuji today.

As for price, I'd go for Pentax---as I have. Through patience and diligent searching, I now have 14 lenses an 2 teleconverters for the system (and had several others, which I either upgraded or the one I got rid of, plus a 67 that was good but I found cumbersome to use. As far as the 25 and 28-45 lenses are concerned, I got both used for well below the prices you mentioned---but you have to work at it. But the DFA35 is really excellent, and imo the 645Z images look wider than they are. They just seem more "expansive". On the long side, Pentax is very good.

But it's the files from the camera that are such a joy to work with. And I actually like the size of the camera, prefer it to the Fuji's.

[btnapa]

Say you don't have any landscape gear right now. Would you buy into a 645Z system today? Or would you pick up a more expensive GFX or similarily priced FF?

I have been wanting to buy the 645Z for sometime now. I have a K1 and a few lenses now and I do not see the need for the 645Z. The marginal extra resolution does not warrant the considerably more expensive body and lenses. The only lens I am missing is the 15-30 which I will get at some point. My recommendation, get a K1 with the 15-30, 24-70 and the Tamron 70-200. All of them used, the price will be in the $3,000-3,500 USD range. Not bad for a complete system. If I want more resolution, I would go to the 100MP or above sensor world which means Fuji for "reasonable" prices. Hassy and PhaseOne are way out of my price range. As much as I hate to say it, Pentax 645 line is dead as the cost of further development my not be wise for Pentax. They need the R&D monies for FF and APSc lines.

[DonV]

I would call the Pentax 645 "stagnant"-- not "dead" ; it is a type of bargain also in the MF world. JMHO.

Used lenses are to be found at really good prices online, and occasionally the body also.

I have a 645D and really like it for the ccd sensor; my son has the 645z and it is significantly more capable. My K1 just is not in the same class.

[SFTphotography]

35mm/full frame is really overhyped. One of these is in a different class to a K1 (I have a D810 which shares its sensor). The extra resolution, and the quality of the 28-45 really set the camera above the D810, even with Sigma ART primes and the 14-24 2.8 which are regarded as the best FF lenses of all time.


There's a reason the 28-45 retails new at nearly 5000euro - optically it's another level over a 35mm lens and the sensor in the 645z - even at higher ISO's is so clean.

I cannot afford a phase one, or Hasselblad...but if I could I would...

[D1N0]

Full frame is a considerably larger step up from aps-c than cropped MF is from 35mm. In that sense it is not overhyped. It is just that people think high megapixel count make a smaller sensor into a bigger sensor. It doesn't

[barondla]

Somebody locally has put a 645Z for sale. I have been intrigued by MF cameras for a long time, and I'm looking to get back into shooting landscapes, which I stopped doing after my kid was born some years ago. Most people have probably owned this camera for a while, and it was state of the art half a decade ago, but things do change. So I'm wondering if this camera still makes sense as a purchase in 2021, and what exactly are the advantages.

The camera in question is well used, and comes in cheaper than a used Sony a7r IV, but slightly more expensive than a Sony a7r III, and much more expensive than a used Sony a7r II. It is slightly cheaper than a Fujifilm GFX 50R or 50S, though the difference isn't much.

Most lenses for Pentax are much cheaper than other systems, but there are exceptions. One thing that really attracts me to the 645Z is the 55mm f/2.8, which is IMO a perfect focal length, as I often find FF 35mm too wide and FF 50mm too narrow. This sits right between the two, which makes it absolutely what I want.

However, the other lens I need is a wide angle. As far as I can see, because this is crop-MF, wide angle options from film era are non-existent. So the only choice is between a mythical 25mm f/4 and a monstrous 28-45mm f/4.5, both of which clock in at well over €2000 used on ebay. Widest I need is mostly a 21mm FF equiv., so I am fine with these focal lengths, but not the prices. They are more expensive than a Sony 16-35mm f/2.8 GM, and there are a plethora of far cheaper options on FF. Additionally, a Sony a7r IV with the 16-35mm f/2.8 is lighter than the Pentax 28-45mm lens alone. So as far as I can see, choice of wide angles is a definite disadvantage for the 645Z. Am I missing something in this respect? Are there any manual or adaptable wide angle lenses that can get around the 20-21mm FF equiv. field of view, deliver sharp images on not cost thousands?

Third lens I need is a long telephoto that can be used for landscapes and full body portraits from a distance that can deliver lots of perspective compression, IMO, Pentax delivers. The 150mm f/2.8 is a perfect lens for the choice, and there are several on ebay for a reasonable price. FF equivalents are several hundred more expensive.

Fujifilm GFX lenses are more expensive. They have only one wide angle, the 23mm f/4, and it costs used slightly cheaper than a Pentax 25mm f/4 (but the availability appears higher), but both of the other lenses would be much more expensive. The 45mm f/2.8 is around €1000 used, and the 110mm f/2.0 (which is not the same as a 150mm f/2.8 obviously, but is the closest thing on GFX) is €1800-2000. At the same time, the difference in prices isn't that massive. Pentax 25mm f/4 + 55mm f/2.8 + 150mm f/2.8 would cost me about €3200. Fujifilm 23mm f/4 + 45mm f/2.8 + 110mm f/2 would be about €5000. That's around €1800 difference.

Since I'm looking to spend thousands of euros, an obvious issue is continuity of the system. A huge plus for Fuji and FF is that there are obviously going to be more and better cameras out. When the time to upgrade comes in around 4-5 years time, I can probably expect the current Fujifilm 100S to cost around €2000-3000 used and all my lenses will work. That said, if I buy the Pentax now, its not like its value will drop to zero in 4-5 years. Even if the system is dead, most of the drop in value has already happened, and it will most likely continue to depreciate by a few hundred euros a year. Not a big deal, honestly.

So overall, I'm really liking the Pentax 645Z. I don't do multi-day hikes anymore, and I hardly ever do full day hikes, mostly I shoot out of my car or the hikes are 3-4h max. So weight and size don't play that much into the equation. I guess my questions are:

Is there a solution to the lack of cheap wide angles? Manual focus lenses? Vertical panos? What do people use to shoot landscapes wider than the 35mm f/3.5 or 33-55mm f/4.5? I could make do with the 25mm f/4, but the 28-45mm f/4.5 would be a hard sell, as its not wide enough, and is quite large.

Say you don't have any landscape gear right now. Would you buy into a 645Z system today? Or would you pick up a more expensive GFX or similarily priced FF?

Welcome to the forum.

You ask a lot of excellent questions. I was in your position a year ago. Was shooting a K-1 and had the itch to update my Pentax 6x7. I flip flopped back and forth, whether the 645D was worth investing in. Then a sharply priced Z appeared. I took the plunge and added the A 120 macro and DFA 55. If I didn't think it was worthwhile I could always sell it. I have now added 8 other lenses. Haven't shot 500 shots with the K-1 since acquiring the 645Z.

I've told this story before but it helps explain why the 645Z has captivated me. There is an old dead tree with hundreds of woodpecker holes in it. I've photographed it for years with numerous cameras and lenses. Nice images, but none ever made me go wow. The 1st frame with the 645Z and DFA55 jumped from the computer monitor. WOW! The closeup of the tree had something I hadn't seen before. A real, 3D depth. Even though the woodpecker holes are only a few inches deep they have depth. Everything else I've used looks flat. Not talking bokeh and out of focus. Talking the ability to render a subject as a rounded, 3 dimensional object. Realism is addictive.

The one ultrawide that is affordable is the Arsat 30 fisheye ( get the MC) . It will need more sharpening than the DFA 55, but it is an absolute steal. There are many pictures here at the forums that show what it can do. Other wise, there are the 25, 28-45, and 35mm. The A 35 can be picked up for a great price. My DFA 25 arrived last week. It is amazing. I'm already addicted to the 40.5 mm drop in filters. Every ultrawide should have this feature. The reduction in glare with dark IR and 10 stop ND filters is a wonderful thing. I'm spoilt.

While the Pentax 645 system is paused at the moment, it is still considerably larger than Fujifilm's offering. Don't forget the Pentax 67 lenses work seamlessly with an adapter. No stop down metering. If Pentax never develops another 645 component, what do we truly need? Perhaps, a body. Pentax 645 lenses can be adapted to Fuji.

If Fujifilm stops development of their MF system where does that leave its owners? It is doubtful those focus by wire lenses will work on any other camera body. But Fujifilm won't stop! Really, I owned their 6x9 film camera with interchangeable lenses. They dropped it and moved to fixed lens bodies. Never happen again, oops how about my friend's 6x8 studio camera. Gone. Which system is truly the dead end?

Buy the camera and DFA55. If it doesn't excite you, it can always be resold.

Thanks,
barondla (Going out to play with the Z and DFA25)

[AfterPentax Mark II]

If you have thousands to spend, than I would not buy a 645Z. There are more modern MF camera's than that one. You have more chance with the new Fuji's that it will see new developments in the near future than with Ricoh/Pentax. That said, as you are intrigued by MF, it seems not logical that you have your future with MF planned so far as you describe. I guess you have never taken any picture with an MF before so why don't you just buy that 645Z with an additional lens (is not that for sale local as well?) and learn the trick of the MF trade. As stated elsewhere Ricoh/Pentax is thinking how to let the Pentax-brand survive, a new modern 645 is not really the camera to come up with. As they stated they see a future for their company with DSLR and the result of it is the K-3 mark III. So think about that.

[Edmunds]

Wow, well, the opinions here are all over the place!


I understand the 28-45mm is a quality lens. But its only 22-36mm FF equiv., that's not really very wide. I have an upcoming trip to Brittany in September and I'm looking to do seascape sunsets, the 22mm equiv. doesn't seem like wide enough. SO that's my main worry at this time, that the wide angle options are quite limiting. And also I'm a bit worried about how the whole system will depreciate over the next 2-3 years.


I guess the best course of action at this point would be to just go try it out and see if I like it, after all that's the best thing about a local sale

[DonV]

If 22mm eq. is not wide enough, then you need to consider to stitch panoramas!

Depreciation, !?, maybe- but more likely appreciation if no more bodies are forthcoming. JMHO.

Do your homework on the front end- the "buying" of the asset- and you will preclude that precipitous drop in "value" from new to used; but then it is a hobby- right?