[Kunzite]

Come on, guys... the 645D line works because it is supported by the K-mount. That means shared components, shared software development, shared distribution&marketing channels, shared a lot of things.
To spin it off means it would have to fend off by itself, and that's not possible. I don't know what you're hoping from this, probably the same as with the "Ricoh should sell Pentax to the Chinese!" wishes - some imaginary company which would pump tons of money into Pentax without ever trying to break even... that's not how it works.

So, a Pentax 645D line which won't share anything (full costs and efforts for everything!) and won't have the Pentax camera and lens development teams... yet it would somehow do so much better?

P.S. I expect the 645D line to be continued.

[SFTphotography]

Because their camera has pixel-shift!

There are reasons why that is awesome, and others why it is not.

1. It's awesome if nothing moves
2. It's unusable if something does - even a blade of grass, wave in the sea etc.

I'd like to have it, but wouldn't always be able to use it.

---------- Post added 07-09-21 at 09:58 AM ----------

36 is 4 x 9, and 9 is all what's needed at normal viewing distance.


Unfortunately, for my standard prints at 300ppi, I need 72Mpixels.

You're needing the 100mp 645z or the GFX100 system with the potential pitfalls that goes with it.

I can make do with 50mp or so but I'd like more...

---------- Post added 07-09-21 at 10:05 AM ----------

Hmm, wasn't really discussing the FF line up lol. My question was hypothetical, I'm sure Pentax will not be making a mirrorless MF camera, as discussed above, it'd require a new mount and a whole new line up of lenses, I'm pretty sure they just don't have the R&D budgets that are necessary for that.

I'm glad you bought so much cool hardware, I guess photography is your profession, with all that gear. I'm a typical hobbyist so i'm not too demanding for the gear, K-1 works for me right now, I'd love to see an update announcement sometime soon though.

Actually aye, it is my job. The hardware is immense. I'd have loved to have gone to Pentax from my 35mm digital camera, I really like the 645z but I really require something that produces 8k res images (commercial reasons) so needing something that gives more res on the long side of at least 7680px, ideally more for a bit of cropping. The HD 70-200 2.8 and 150-450 would be perfect for a longer reach solution.

A D850 would have done, but the 5ds gives that bit more wiggle room to remove soft edges. Typically with Nikon lenses you have to cut a fair bit off the side of the frame to hide soft edges - and if you are supplying 8k images (a thing a supplier I work with asks for) it's not great.

With the 645z the shape of the sensor and the good lenses, you can use all the 8256 across without really needing to crop.

[kaseki]

Barondia - I would quote the post but there are soooo many quotes in that post it would be lost.

Pentax discontinued the 25 for quality reasons. The maker of the lens then went out of business. It was such an unreliable lens. I had 3 faulty units.

First, thank you for clarifying the 25mm history.

Second, could you expand a bit on what the unreliability manifested as?

[awscreo]

There are reasons why that is awesome, and others why it is not.

1. It's awesome if nothing moves
2. It's unusable if something does - even a blade of grass, wave in the sea etc.

I'd like to have it, but wouldn't always be able to use it.

---------- Post added 07-09-21 at 09:58 AM ----------



You're needing the 100mp 645z or the GFX100 system with the potential pitfalls that goes with it.

I can make do with 50mp or so but I'd like more...

---------- Post added 07-09-21 at 10:05 AM ----------



Actually aye, it is my job. The hardware is immense. I'd have loved to have gone to Pentax from my 35mm digital camera, I really like the 645z but I really require something that produces 8k res images (commercial reasons) so needing something that gives more res on the long side of at least 7680px, ideally more for a bit of cropping. The HD 70-200 2.8 and 150-450 would be perfect for a longer reach solution.

A D850 would have done, but the 5ds gives that bit more wiggle room to remove soft edges. Typically with Nikon lenses you have to cut a fair bit off the side of the frame to hide soft edges - and if you are supplying 8k images (a thing a supplier I work with asks for) it's not great.

With the 645z the shape of the sensor and the good lenses, you can use all the 8256 across without really needing to crop.

Yeah, you need what you need for pro use. Pro work is demanding, I used to work in a design studio, we also took photos for our f&b clients, both architectural/interior and food/drinks, and you quickly run into necessities and can easily justify getting an expensive macro lens, or an even more expensive tilt shift lens if that means getting new business or improving on current work.

Being a hobbyist now really have took a toll on my camera budget)

[biz-engineer]

And you really think you can reliably see the difference between interpolated 61 and native 72mp? I doubt it.

You are right. 61Mp on FF sensor is already very dense.

[SFTphotography]

Yeah, you need what you need for pro use. Pro work is demanding, I used to work in a design studio, we also took photos for our f&b clients, both architectural/interior and food/drinks, and you quickly run into necessities and can easily justify getting an expensive macro lens, or an even more expensive tilt shift lens if that means getting new business or improving on current work.

Being a hobbyist now really have took a toll on my camera budget)

Yep, I used to do commercial real estate photography and have shot images for hotels, offices and estate agents. A tilt shift lens is very useful - I had a Nikon one but it was crap. Pentax don't make one and Canon make a remarkable one. Laterly I just borrowed the works camera and lens to do it such was the superiority of the Canon lens. It's not something I do now, but I might get one for once international travel opens up. There won't be many photographers able to produce 8k res shots with one so a few shots of places like Carcassonne and I could make it pay for itself, especially if you buy used.


A Tilt shift is a niche product, but a very important lens for a manufactuer to offer a) as a halo product b) as a working product. Pentax should have developed a 24, or preferably a 21mm one for the 35mm system and offered something similar for the 645z system.

[itshimitis]

First, thank you for clarifying the 25mm history.

Second, could you expand a bit on what the unreliability manifested as?

The movement of the glass in autofocus failed each time. The first two occasions I couldn't get it to focus at infinity- even manually. It was out of focus permanently even in manual focus. The final occasion, it wouldn't move from infinity. That was much less of a problem as stick it at f/16 and at infinity, pretty much everything was acceptably sharp. The manufacturing of the first lens was really very poor. It was a pity as optically it was an excellent lens, but mechanically poorly put together. On each occasion unrepairable and I got a new DA lens each time in return.

[barondla]

Barondia - I would quote the post but there are soooo many quotes in that post it would be lost.

Pentax discontinued the 25 for quality reasons. The maker of the lens then went out of business. It was such an unreliable lens. I had 3 faulty units.

Wow! I may end up with a 28-45 yet. What company went out of business?

Thanks,
barondla

[itshimitis]

Wow! I may end up with a 28-45 yet. What company went out of business?

Thanks,
barondla

The third party manufacturer making it for Pentax. I don't know the name of it.

[kaseki]

I hope my D-FA will escape that end.

[Nuno Santos]

Given the way things are with Ricoh, I'd expect Pentax 645 to go the way of the Q. It will stay on offer as long as inventory is available, like the Japanese site is still offering Q lenses (except the now discontinued 08):

?????? - Q??????? - ??? | RICOH IMAGING

Otherwise, from the business standpoint, the cost of writing off unsellable lens inventory would have to be compared with the cost of refreshing the camera line. And it could be very expensive to adapt the latest K3-iii innards for 645 use, once they've made their way into a K1-iii.

Ricoh is not cleaning up the inventory, they are still producing the 645z. Hope they will continue to develop this amazing line, as no other brand is doing the cameras the way they do.

[greyghost389]

2) what specific investments in the 645 lineup would you like to see a new owner make to improve the market position?

A true 645 sized sensor.

[kaseki]

2) what specific investments in the 645 lineup would you like to see [the] owner make to improve the market position?

A true 645 sized sensor.

• A true 645 sized sensor with the same size pixels as at present for the same great ISO performance ==> ~100 Mpix ==> twice the image memory
• Focal plane SR (which could be used with all the 645 non-SR lenses, but which needs to be auto defeated if an SR lens is used with SR 'on')

[lytrytyr]

Ricoh is not cleaning up the inventory, they are still producing the 645z. Hope they will continue to develop this amazing line, as no other brand is doing the cameras the way they do.

I'm talking about the 645 system. Ricoh will need to sell 645 cameras to clear their 645 lens inventory.

Hope they will continue to develop this amazing line, as no other brand is doing the cameras the way they do.

No other brand did cameras the way Pentax did the Q system. It was a unique extension of the photographic space, like the Ur-Leica was a century ago. Crop-sensor MF, on the other hand, is available from other manufacturers.

[awscreo]

I'm talking about the 645 system. Ricoh will need to sell 645 cameras to clear their 645 lens inventory.


No other brand did cameras the way Pentax did the Q system. It was a unique extension of the photographic space, like the Ur-Leica was a century ago. Crop-sensor MF, on the other hand, is available from other manufacturers.

Never tried the Q line, so it's a genuine question - what was unique about it?