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12-02-2021, 02:12 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Focusrite Quote
I tend to agree with a lot of the sentiment regarding lenses, but perhaps it's a case of what the intended use of the lens is to be able to judge whether it's going to be capable for any sort of upgrade.

Pentax using the full 645 100Mpx sensor would seem like the obvious route to go if they wish to level the playing field with the GFX100 regarding resolution and desirability ( not only retaining their current user base, but also gaining new users? ), but whether these sensors are still available or economically viable compared with the cropped 100Mpx sensor is unknown to me. Even that sensor is getting older, and I don't believe it's BSI, so any advantage it has with pixel size may not be as significant as hoped. However, I think the lenses would make a pretty good show of handling that resolution; but not wide open. This may keep much of the user-base happy, but by the looks of some of the previous replies it would be unsuited for other users.

I have spent some time shooting with a medium format digital back coupled with some "legacy" Mamiya lenses, which hold up very well for landscape use if they are stopped down. The main weaknesses are with the wide angle lenses, as the 55mm has to be stopped down past f11 and the 35mm is never perfectly crisp even at that aperture or beyond, and has reasonably heavy CA in high contrast areas ( we don't talk about the 45mm . . . . from either Pentax or Mamiya! ). However if Pentax did come out with a full 645 100Mpx sensor for a reasonable price, I certainly would be interested. From what I've seen of the Mamiya lenses and their equivalence in reputation with their Pentax counterparts, I would probably be happy with the results for my landscape work.

But what would a revamped lens line-up look like for a full-sized 645 sensor? I had some time up my sleeve recently to browse one of the larger camera shops in our city whilst my K-1 sensor was being cleaned, and I browsed the display of GFX cameras. I was actually quite taken-aback at the size of the lenses - very surprised! I guess you need a lot of glass to handle 100Mpx at such fine pixel densities and wide-open performance, but the lenses ( in a relative sense ) are similar size ( or maybe a bit larger ) than the Mamiya lenses I use. In balance with this, some of the the GF lenses are likely to have a bigger equivalent aperture, but scaling up in size I would hate to think how big a heavily-corrected full-frame 645 lens would need to be!

In contrast, I suppose there's the Pentax DF-A 645 90mm, which I would expect would perform admirably on a full-sized sensor ( but how big is it? I've never actually seen one ). Also of note are the modern blue-ring Phase One lenses, which seem to share a similar size and format to their Mamiya predecessors, and seem to ( mostly ) handle the 150Mpx sensor well. I don't know how many of them were optically redesigned to be able to do so - and they are eye-wateringly expensive.

And for a bit of disclosure, the digital back that I have been using is a Leaf Aptus, with the 80Mpx CCD sensor, full sized ( well, close enough to ). It's a different type of shooting experience to get used to, and an interesting journey so far; but if Pentax came out with a 645 with the 80Mpx CCD sensor I would also be interested in that, if it were cheaper than the GFX100 ( unlikely ). I have read posts on GetDPI forums from people who have used both the GFX100 and digital backs with the 80Mpx sensor and have remarked that the IQ is very similar from a resolution standpoint.
The only MF sensors available at Sony are the 100Mpix 33x44mm and the 150MPix 40x54mm. The 50MPix used in the GFX50SII and 645Z are not available for new products, nor is the 100MPix used by Hasselblad and PhaseOne. There are no CCD available for photography anymore.
Regarding lenses size : the DFA90 is not what I would call a big lens. Quite reasonable, completely manageable in handling.
PhaseOne blue rings (some of them, at least) look huge to me... I would say bigger than Hasselblad H lenses for what I saw.

12-02-2021, 06:55 AM - 1 Like   #32
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There are currently one MF, one FF and two APS-C cameras in the Pentax lineup.

Pretty slim pickings.

I'm still on a K-5 IIs as it does everything I need it to do, but it is very likely that it is my last Pentax bought new.

Really a shame they got rid of the compact KP.
12-02-2021, 11:11 AM - 2 Likes   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eric Auer Quote
There are currently one MF, one FF and two APS-C cameras in the Pentax lineup.

Pretty slim pickings.
Well....do you see medium format in the Canon or Nikon or Sony Or Panasonic lineups? Or FF in Fuji? I'd say: besides upgrades to the K1mkII and the Z, what camera is missing? The K1mkII is a very able camera. The 645Z is more than that, and is only exceeded by one camera in the Fuji lineup, and the the extremely expensive Phase one cameras, at least in terms of the quality of the stills files. So, the way I see it, a small company like Pentax is covering the situation pretty well. The Sony line is getting rather confusing, and the Canon line always has been, as is Nikon's to a lesser degree.
12-02-2021, 11:30 AM - 1 Like   #34
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The advantage of a larger lineup is that you can have a camera better suited to your needs. The K-3III could be split into three cameras with different feature set and lower price. I think Pentax could do with two models in each segment except MF where one is enough.

12-02-2021, 11:58 AM - 2 Likes   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Well....do you see medium format in the Canon or Nikon or Sony Or Panasonic lineups? Or FF in Fuji? I'd say: besides upgrades to the K1mkII and the Z, what camera is missing? The K1mkII is a very able camera. The 645Z is more than that, and is only exceeded by one camera in the Fuji lineup, and the the extremely expensive Phase one cameras, at least in terms of the quality of the stills files. So, the way I see it, a small company like Pentax is covering the situation pretty well. The Sony line is getting rather confusing, and the Canon line always has been, as is Nikon's to a lesser degree.
Sorry, but there is zero flexibility in the Pentax lineup.

I appreciate your brand loyalty, but there is little room for that in my life.
The notion that Pentax "has all you need" is nowhere near reality at this stage.

There is nothing "confusing" about a large lineup.
Advanced photographers and Pro's know what they want.

I'm about to buy a GR III X, but other than that I see nothing I need/want.

I'm not going to elaborate further. It's all out there.

Last edited by Eric Auer; 12-02-2021 at 01:29 PM.
12-02-2021, 04:16 PM - 2 Likes   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eric Auer Quote
Sorry, but there is zero flexibility in the Pentax lineup.

I appreciate your brand loyalty, but there is little room for that in my life.
The notion that Pentax "has all you need" is nowhere near reality at this stage.

There is nothing "confusing" about a large lineup.
Advanced photographers and Pro's know what they want.

I'm about to buy a GR III X, but other than that I see nothing I need/want.

I'm not going to elaborate further. It's all out there.
Well, Eric, clearly that's the end of this discussion. For you. We disagree about large camera body lineups.


FWIW, my brand loyalty is contingent on a company having what I need. I started with Oly, and was very happy. Then FF became affordable, and I moved to Sony in 2010. Then digital medium format became, if not affordable, less than excruciatingly painful, so I moved to Pentax.

And also, FWIW, I now need video more than I did before. That has created a problem for me with Pentax.
12-02-2021, 07:41 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Well, Eric, clearly that's the end of this discussion. For you. We disagree about large camera body lineups.


FWIW, my brand loyalty is contingent on a company having what I need. I started with Oly, and was very happy. Then FF became affordable, and I moved to Sony in 2010. Then digital medium format became, if not affordable, less than excruciatingly painful, so I moved to Pentax.

And also, FWIW, I now need video more than I did before. That has created a problem for me with Pentax.
Fair enough.

I'm just waiting for the GR III X to emerge from pre-order...(almost bought a Lumix DC-LX100 II)

12-03-2021, 01:29 PM   #38
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I find myself wondering what the OP's decision was...
12-03-2021, 11:17 PM   #39
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Where else?

.....can you go, in one company umbrella Pentax/Ricoh from a camera like the GRIII, tiny but powerful, all the way through to APS (K3III, K-70), Full Frame (K-1) and, finally, in the 645Z, medium format?

That's what I did.....and now I find I have TOO many choices and will probably sell the K-1.

---------- Post added 12-04-21 at 12:46 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Well, Eric, clearly that's the end of this discussion. For you. We disagree about large camera body lineups.


FWIW, my brand loyalty is contingent on a company having what I need. I started with Oly, and was very happy. Then FF became affordable, and I moved to Sony in 2010. Then digital medium format became, if not affordable, less than excruciatingly painful, so I moved to Pentax.

And also, FWIW, I now need video more than I did before. That has created a problem for me with Pentax.
no problem...just go with a nice video camera (go with XLR inputs like the Canon XA series) and be done with it....take your stills with Pentax.

---------- Post added 12-04-21 at 12:48 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by rlmartindale Quote
.....can you go, in one company umbrella Pentax/Ricoh from a camera like the GRIII, tiny but powerful, all the way through to APS (K3III, K-70), Full Frame (K-1) and, finally, in the 645Z, medium format?

That's what I did.....and now I find I have TOO many choices and will probably sell the K-1.

---------- Post added 12-04-21 at 12:46 AM ----------


no problem...just go with a nice video camera (go with XLR inputs like the Canon XA series) and be done with it....take your stills with Pentax.
When I was helping teach high school video...they all wanted to shoot with SLRs....it took some doing to get the students to shoot with video cameras if they wanted video!
12-04-2021, 05:38 AM - 2 Likes   #40
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I don't think they've officially said anything but I'd say they need a new body and at least one lens that's f/2 of better as Fujifilm are eating their MF lunch.
12-04-2021, 05:51 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlmartindale Quote
.....can you go, in one company umbrella Pentax/Ricoh from a camera like the GRIII, tiny but powerful, all the way through to APS (K3III, K-70), Full Frame (K-1) and, finally, in the 645Z, medium format?

That's what I did.....and now I find I have TOO many choices and will probably sell the K-1.

---------- Post added 12-04-21 at 12:46 AM ----------


no problem...just go with a nice video camera (go with XLR inputs like the Canon XA series) and be done with it....take your stills with Pentax.

---------- Post added 12-04-21 at 12:48 AM ----------


When I was helping teach high school video...they all wanted to shoot with SLRs....it took some doing to get the students to shoot with video cameras if they wanted video!
Yes, that is one thing I'm considering---just a purpose built video camera. But at this time my video requests aren't so frequent, and so that is why I'd like my stills camera to be able to do better video. And because I've got a great lens lineup for them, even though they are not cine lenses.
12-04-2021, 12:32 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by rlmartindale Quote
.....can you go, in one company umbrella Pentax/Ricoh from a camera like the GRIII, tiny but powerful, all the way through to APS (K3III, K-70), Full Frame (K-1) and, finally, in the 645Z, medium format?

That's what I did.....and now I find I have TOO many choices and will probably sell the K-1.[COLOR="Silver"]
One of each is too many?

Ok...

But there's more to it than this, of course. It pays off to compare lineups a little closer.
12-04-2021, 03:45 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jonathan Mac Quote
I don't think they've officially said anything but I'd say they need a new body and at least one lens that's f/2 of better as Fujifilm are eating their MF lunch.
Ooku claimed it's the next camera to be launched right? It would be interesting to know if Fuji MF is mostly FF users moving up or MF users going milc. Most likely a mix of both as I can see having a lighter camera being a benefit for pretty much anyone that doesn't have their camera permanently mounted to one of those arm things you use in the studio.
12-04-2021, 05:26 PM   #44
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In the past couple of weeks I tried to take a serious look at alternatives.

The first item I looked at is for a unit that is of similar caliber ie. 50mpx. There seems to be only Fuji or Hasselblad as realistic alternatives. Out of those I would prefer the Hasselblad H series, even an older model, not the latest super expensive H6D versions. The ergonomics on the Fuji and Hasselblad X cameras are definitely not for me.

I ignored Phase One and Leica-MF because of extreme price points and limitations in capabilities.

The second item I looked for is a growth path. Fuji has already established themselves with the 100mpx as the next generation camera, however I find it limiting that they locked themselves in with the sensor size 43x33, with lenses sized accordingly. That establishes a hard ceiling which they can only break through with a totally new camera and new lenses.

The third item I looked at, is whether current technology has surpassed the 50mpx MF sensor, making it outdated. In some respects I think technology has surpassed it, especially with fancy features such as fps as autofocus, etc. But in terms of image quality it is still relevant.

So in conclusion, if I really feel the need for an upgrade, my intuition steers me towards a larger sensor instead of more pixels. This rules out the Fuji range, unfortunately.

This leaves me with the Hasselblad H system with the CMOS sensors and very near full frame for MF. The current ergonomics are not as nice as the Pentax system, but it is a very capable camera. The cost would be enormous, which is a factor of course.

My hope is still that Pentax will bring out a next version with the near FF sensor, whatever the mpx. That seems like the easiest path forward for me. Although if they don't I can either stick with what I have, be content, or switch to H.

Your thoughts?
.

Last edited by TDvN57; 12-04-2021 at 09:22 PM.
12-04-2021, 06:06 PM   #45
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Personally I think mirrorless is the future for MF.

Wish someone would make a Digital 645 folder, hahaha
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