Capture One support for Pentax 645z - Finally!!!

SFTphotography · 10-02-2021, 09:09 AM

This is welcome - but too late for me as I moved to DXO PL4.

MikeRhys · 10-03-2021, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by TDvN57

Can you reference the source of your info of P1's willingness to add tethering for the 645z?

Not exactly a source, but PhaseOne always said that they rely on the SDK's provided by the camera manufacturers.
For example, some older Canon EOS cameras, which used to be supported for tethering in older C1 versions, can no longer be used for tethered shoots as Canon has dropped the support for these cameras in the SDK.

pid · 10-03-2021, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by MikeRhys

Not exactly a source, but PhaseOne always said that they rely on the SDK's provided by the camera manufacturers.
For example, some older Canon EOS cameras, which used to be supported for tethering in older C1 versions, can no longer be used for tethered shoots as Canon has dropped the support for these cameras in the SDK.

Thats right. Everybody who asks the C1 support becomes this answer. Pentax has to give them the SDK. Meanwhile allmost all other companys can be tethered by C1. Ricoh please give them the stuff they need to build the tethering support for Pentax.
If not, then Ricoh, please bring your own tethering software IT2 to work together with other software than DCU or Lightroom. But better than build a semipro tethering software, like the IT2, Ricoh should give support to CaptureOne. I think that would help using Pentax in studios.

Francophonik · 10-04-2021, 10:17 AM

Sweet, I just got a 645z, I am amazed at the color rendition on C1 but I cannot get the Image transmitter anywhere, I cannot tether to lightroom, bummer. Anybody is able to share the software over dropbox? Also Did anybody try to tether to C1 in the tether module there is a drop down menu "add camera" with name and address, perhaps adding the ip address would work?

pid · 10-04-2021, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Francophonik

Sweet, I just got a 645z, I am amazed at the color rendition on C1 but I cannot get the Image transmitter anywhere, I cannot tether to lightroom, bummer. Anybody is able to share the software over dropbox? Also Did anybody try to tether to C1 in the tether module there is a drop down menu "add camera" with name and address, perhaps adding the ip address would work?

it would work, if Ricoh/Pentax would support them with their SDK ...

TonyW · 10-05-2021, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by pid

it would work, if Ricoh/Pentax would support them with their SDK ...

It is really doubtful that SDK's are of any use to a raw development program, manufacturers would be loathe to document their proprietary raw format.. In short and AFAIK SDK's do not allow access to the raw data.

This based on a documented quote from Thomas Knoll Adobe after discussing with Nikon:

Quote:

TK: Can you please document NEF format?

Nikon: No, but you can use our SDK.

TK: But the Nikon SDK does not provide what Camera Raw needs to operate, and using it would limit Camera Raw's speed, UI features, and quality of results (e.g. Camera Raw's special highlight recovery algorithms).

Adobe does not use camera manufacturers SDK due to the limitations imposed therefore it seems likely that other quality raw software such as C1 would not go down this route either

MikeRhys · 10-05-2021, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by TonyW

It is really doubtful that SDK's are of any use to a raw development program, manufacturers would be loathe to document their proprietary raw format.. In short and AFAIK SDK's do not allow access to the raw data.

This based on a documented quote from Thomas Knoll Adobe after discussing with Nikon:

Adobe does not use camera manufacturers SDK due to the limitations imposed therefore it seems likely that other quality raw software such as C1 would not go down this route either

I don't think that C1 is using the SDK for processing the raw file, they do have their own algorithms for this. Otherwise, they wouldn't limit support to specific raw formats, e.g. no PEF for the 645Z.
However, when it comes to accessing the camera for tethering they do rely on the manufacturers SDK. It makes no sense to reverse engineer a protocol when there is an official SDK available that can be used. Furthermore, they circumvent intellectual property lawsuits by using the SDK.

Zz! · 10-06-2021, 05:34 AM

In c1, the profile is terrible for 645z. Blue shadows, greenish skin tones.

MikeRhys · 10-18-2021, 06:35 AM

I just created an album with five images, all developed with Capture One.
The settings are the same, except for the white balance. The white balance is picked from about the same area at the snowy mountain top to compensate for the colour differences.
As the native support for the 645Z is a new feature introduced with the latest update, I have used the most common way to trick C1 into accepting the image by tweaking the EXIF data for comparison.
It's basically the same image, developed in four variants. Using a DFA645 55mm/f2.8
- Pentax 645Z with the generic ICC profile
- Pentax 645Z with a custom ICC profile
- Pentax 645Z faked as PhaseOne IQ250 with the Outdoor Daylight ICC profile
- Pentax 645Z faked as PhaseOne IQ250 with a custom ICC profile

For comparison, I added the same shot taken with a PhaseOne IQ150 with a Schneider-Kreuznach 55mm/f2.8 and the Outdoor Daylight ICC profile for this camera.
All images are taken at F11 and have the Chromatic Aberration and Diffraction Correction box ticked. The images taken with the Pentax have an LCC applied with correction for Color Cast and Uniform Light enabled. Sorry, I have no LCC for the PhaseOne.

Have a look and let me know what you think.
Comparison

**TDvN57** · 10-18-2021, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by MikeRhys

I just created an album with five images, all developed with Capture One.
The settings are the same, except for the white balance. The white balance is picked from about the same area at the snowy mountain top to compensate for the colour differences.
As the native support for the 645Z is a new feature introduced with the latest update, I have used the most common way to trick C1 into accepting the image by tweaking the EXIF data for comparison.
It's basically the same image, developed in four variants. Using a DFA645 55mm/f2.8
- Pentax 645Z with the generic ICC profile
- Pentax 645Z with a custom ICC profile
- Pentax 645Z faked as PhaseOne IQ250 with the Outdoor Daylight ICC profile
- Pentax 645Z faked as PhaseOne IQ250 with a custom ICC profile

For comparison, I added the same shot taken with a PhaseOne IQ150 with a Schneider-Kreuznach 55mm/f2.8 and the Outdoor Daylight ICC profile for this camera.
All images are taken at F11 and have the Chromatic Aberration and Diffraction Correction box ticked. The images taken with the Pentax have an LCC applied with correction for Color Cast and Uniform Light enabled. Sorry, I have no LCC for the PhaseOne.

Have a look and let me know what you think.
Comparison

On my phone I can not see any 'game changer' type of differences between the pictures. I'll take a closer look on my computer.

Thus on a first pass look, I would say the C1's hype looks rather empty.

Thank you Mike for this effort to make a comparison.

-

MikeRhys · 10-18-2021, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by TDvN57

On my phone I can not see any 'game changer' type of differences between the pictures. I'll take a closer look on my computer.

Thus on a first pass look, I would say the C1's hype looks rather empty.

Thank you Mike for this effort to make a comparison.

-

You will probably see the slight differences on a calibrated monitor.
Unfortunately, I had to downsize the images for this site. This may affect the colours as well, as I had to convert to sRGB for the web.

In general, I would say that the colour rendering is better in native support than with the faked IQ250 standard ICC profiles.
The images tend to be too red most of the time. A custom profile is required to even that out, or you might spend a lot of time with the colour editor.
Is there an improvement from the generic 645Z profile?
I think that you can gain a slight improvement, but there might be different opinions. My test profile is created with Lumariver, I haven't retested the X-Rite software yet.

MikeRhys · 11-07-2021, 02:25 PM - **1 Like**

I have used Capture One for my Pentax 645Z since 2017. As I used Capture One before, I was looking for a workaround to keep using it with my new Pentax.
You might know that there have been a few workarounds, the tool provided by Alex Munoz as well as tweaking the EXIF data.

I just published a blog article on my website showing the differences in colour rendering for all options.
Have a look if you are interested Capture One and Pentax 645Z – How the workflow and colours changed

10-18-2021, 06:35 AM	#24
MikeRhys New Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Photos: Albums Posts: 13	I just created an album with five images, all developed with Capture One. The settings are the same, except for the white balance. The white balance is picked from about the same area at the snowy mountain top to compensate for the colour differences. As the native support for the 645Z is a new feature introduced with the latest update, I have used the most common way to trick C1 into accepting the image by tweaking the EXIF data for comparison. It's basically the same image, developed in four variants. Using a DFA645 55mm/f2.8 - Pentax 645Z with the generic ICC profile - Pentax 645Z with a custom ICC profile - Pentax 645Z faked as PhaseOne IQ250 with the Outdoor Daylight ICC profile - Pentax 645Z faked as PhaseOne IQ250 with a custom ICC profile For comparison, I added the same shot taken with a PhaseOne IQ150 with a Schneider-Kreuznach 55mm/f2.8 and the Outdoor Daylight ICC profile for this camera. All images are taken at F11 and have the Chromatic Aberration and Diffraction Correction box ticked. The images taken with the Pentax have an LCC applied with correction for Color Cast and Uniform Light enabled. Sorry, I have no LCC for the PhaseOne. Have a look and let me know what you think. Comparison Last edited by MikeRhys; 10-18-2021 at 06:36 AM. Reason: spelling

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10-02-2021, 09:09 AM	#16
SFTphotography Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Scotland Posts: 291	This is welcome - but too late for me as I moved to DXO PL4.

10-03-2021, 12:18 AM	#17
MikeRhys New Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Photos: Albums Posts: 13	Originally posted by TDvN57 Can you reference the source of your info of P1's willingness to add tethering for the 645z? Not exactly a source, but PhaseOne always said that they rely on the SDK's provided by the camera manufacturers. For example, some older Canon EOS cameras, which used to be supported for tethering in older C1 versions, can no longer be used for tethered shoots as Canon has dropped the support for these cameras in the SDK.

10-03-2021, 09:05 AM	#18
pid Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 567	Originally posted by MikeRhys Not exactly a source, but PhaseOne always said that they rely on the SDK's provided by the camera manufacturers. For example, some older Canon EOS cameras, which used to be supported for tethering in older C1 versions, can no longer be used for tethered shoots as Canon has dropped the support for these cameras in the SDK. Thats right. Everybody who asks the C1 support becomes this answer. Pentax has to give them the SDK. Meanwhile allmost all other companys can be tethered by C1. Ricoh please give them the stuff they need to build the tethering support for Pentax. If not, then Ricoh, please bring your own tethering software IT2 to work together with other software than DCU or Lightroom. But better than build a semipro tethering software, like the IT2, Ricoh should give support to CaptureOne. I think that would help using Pentax in studios.

10-04-2021, 10:17 AM	#19
Francophonik New Member Join Date: Oct 2021 Posts: 1	Sweet, I just got a 645z, I am amazed at the color rendition on C1 but I cannot get the Image transmitter anywhere, I cannot tether to lightroom, bummer. Anybody is able to share the software over dropbox? Also Did anybody try to tether to C1 in the tether module there is a drop down menu "add camera" with name and address, perhaps adding the ip address would work?

10-04-2021, 01:59 PM	#20
pid Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 567	Originally posted by Francophonik Sweet, I just got a 645z, I am amazed at the color rendition on C1 but I cannot get the Image transmitter anywhere, I cannot tether to lightroom, bummer. Anybody is able to share the software over dropbox? Also Did anybody try to tether to C1 in the tether module there is a drop down menu "add camera" with name and address, perhaps adding the ip address would work? it would work, if Ricoh/Pentax would support them with their SDK ...

10-05-2021, 06:50 AM	#21
TonyW Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 706 Original Poster	Originally posted by pid it would work, if Ricoh/Pentax would support them with their SDK ... It is really doubtful that SDK's are of any use to a raw development program, manufacturers would be loathe to document their proprietary raw format.. In short and AFAIK SDK's do not allow access to the raw data. This based on a documented quote from Thomas Knoll Adobe after discussing with Nikon: Quote: TK: Can you please document NEF format? Nikon: No, but you can use our SDK. TK: But the Nikon SDK does not provide what Camera Raw needs to operate, and using it would limit Camera Raw's speed, UI features, and quality of results (e.g. Camera Raw's special highlight recovery algorithms). Adobe does not use camera manufacturers SDK due to the limitations imposed therefore it seems likely that other quality raw software such as C1 would not go down this route either

10-05-2021, 07:22 AM	#22
MikeRhys New Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Photos: Albums Posts: 13	Originally posted by TonyW It is really doubtful that SDK's are of any use to a raw development program, manufacturers would be loathe to document their proprietary raw format.. In short and AFAIK SDK's do not allow access to the raw data. This based on a documented quote from Thomas Knoll Adobe after discussing with Nikon: Adobe does not use camera manufacturers SDK due to the limitations imposed therefore it seems likely that other quality raw software such as C1 would not go down this route either I don't think that C1 is using the SDK for processing the raw file, they do have their own algorithms for this. Otherwise, they wouldn't limit support to specific raw formats, e.g. no PEF for the 645Z. However, when it comes to accessing the camera for tethering they do rely on the manufacturers SDK. It makes no sense to reverse engineer a protocol when there is an official SDK available that can be used. Furthermore, they circumvent intellectual property lawsuits by using the SDK.

10-06-2021, 05:34 AM	#23
Zz! New Member Join Date: Apr 2021 Posts: 9	In c1, the profile is terrible for 645z. Blue shadows, greenish skin tones.

10-18-2021, 09:34 AM	#25
TDvN57 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Berlin Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,150	Originally posted by MikeRhys I just created an album with five images, all developed with Capture One. The settings are the same, except for the white balance. The white balance is picked from about the same area at the snowy mountain top to compensate for the colour differences. As the native support for the 645Z is a new feature introduced with the latest update, I have used the most common way to trick C1 into accepting the image by tweaking the EXIF data for comparison. It's basically the same image, developed in four variants. Using a DFA645 55mm/f2.8 - Pentax 645Z with the generic ICC profile - Pentax 645Z with a custom ICC profile - Pentax 645Z faked as PhaseOne IQ250 with the Outdoor Daylight ICC profile - Pentax 645Z faked as PhaseOne IQ250 with a custom ICC profile For comparison, I added the same shot taken with a PhaseOne IQ150 with a Schneider-Kreuznach 55mm/f2.8 and the Outdoor Daylight ICC profile for this camera. All images are taken at F11 and have the Chromatic Aberration and Diffraction Correction box ticked. The images taken with the Pentax have an LCC applied with correction for Color Cast and Uniform Light enabled. Sorry, I have no LCC for the PhaseOne. Have a look and let me know what you think. Comparison On my phone I can not see any 'game changer' type of differences between the pictures. I'll take a closer look on my computer. Thus on a first pass look, I would say the C1's hype looks rather empty. Thank you Mike for this effort to make a comparison. -

10-18-2021, 10:55 AM	#26
MikeRhys New Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Photos: Albums Posts: 13	Originally posted by TDvN57 On my phone I can not see any 'game changer' type of differences between the pictures. I'll take a closer look on my computer. Thus on a first pass look, I would say the C1's hype looks rather empty. Thank you Mike for this effort to make a comparison. - You will probably see the slight differences on a calibrated monitor. Unfortunately, I had to downsize the images for this site. This may affect the colours as well, as I had to convert to sRGB for the web. In general, I would say that the colour rendering is better in native support than with the faked IQ250 standard ICC profiles. The images tend to be too red most of the time. A custom profile is required to even that out, or you might spend a lot of time with the colour editor. Is there an improvement from the generic 645Z profile? I think that you can gain a slight improvement, but there might be different opinions. My test profile is created with Lumariver, I haven't retested the X-Rite software yet.

11-07-2021, 02:25 PM - 1 Like	#27
MikeRhys New Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Photos: Albums Posts: 13	I have used Capture One for my Pentax 645Z since 2017. As I used Capture One before, I was looking for a workaround to keep using it with my new Pentax. You might know that there have been a few workarounds, the tool provided by Alex Munoz as well as tweaking the EXIF data. I just published a blog article on my website showing the differences in colour rendering for all options. Have a look if you are interested Capture One and Pentax 645Z – How the workflow and colours changed