Is it time to ditch the SD card concept?

**TDvN57** · 11-10-2021, 10:01 AM

Just watched a review of the new Mavic III drone with Hassie 4/3 camera and no removable storage.

According to the reviewer it has a 1tb SSD built into the camera. To make it practical the camera connects with USB-C.

I've wondered about this concept for some time now and I recall a short discussion about as well here on the forum.

But realistically, if we can enable ourselves to temporarily let go of what we find as must-haves in a system and consider what new technology offers, then it opens up new horizons. For example if there was a SSD solution available at the beginning stages of digital cameras, would they have ever considered a small removable cartridge, eg SD card?

A built in SSD solves a lot of issues, the biggest advantage would be no need for a large buffer because the SSD can write fast enough.

With regard to reliability, well my MS-Surface has a 1tb SSD built into the motherboard and it is still working everyday.

If reliability is a serious concern, perhaps a second 1 or 2tb SSD also built in could solve that concern as well.

Transferring data off of the camera with USB-C is fast and there are various options available such as a laptop, or a storage unit with the smarts to dump the incoming data onto a SSD and/or plugin drives. There are a couple of these devices in the market.

What are you your thoughts? Could this be a viable solution for Pentax to add to a 150mpx FF 645 one day?

**StiffLegged** · 11-10-2021, 10:16 AM - **1 Like**

It depends on how long the SSD lasts compared to the shutter - SSDs have a finite life in read/write cycles so you wouldn’t want a camera’s storage to expire before the shutter wears out as an SSD soldered to the other circuitry wouldn’t be easily replaceable. SD cards (or whatever flavour) can at least be easily replaced if they fail.

Should Pentax move to a shutterless body like Nikon just have with the Z9, the lifetime of an SSD becomes more of a consideration, I think.

**AggieDad** · 11-10-2021, 10:44 AM

I think an SSD is a very practical idea. I suspect it could be a "plug-in" of some sort that could be replaced if needed. Although, I must admit the SSDs I have for my computers have shown excellent reliability.

An idea for Pentax? Probably not. My impression is that Pentax does not want to be anywhere near the forefront of any change or innovation.

vonBaloney · 11-10-2021, 11:05 AM

Modern quality SSDs should last way longer than the shutter in most cases.

Fogel70 · 11-10-2021, 11:18 AM - **7 Likes**

I would not like a non removable storage.
In case the camera breaks down it cannot be fun to no longer have access to the images.

Not a Number · 11-10-2021, 11:35 AM - **7 Likes**

If for some reason I had to give up the original images I would rather turn over a memory card than the whole camera.

**Eric Auer** · 11-10-2021, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Fogel70

I would not like a non removable storage.
In case the camera brakes down it cannot be fun to no longer have access to the images.

Not an issue if the drive can be powered from the micro USB port as well as from the camera.

Pretty sure this will be the case on any somewhat serious camera with a fixed drive.
Also would not surprise me if the camera also had wifi that can run off the camera battery independently for even more transfer options.

**Eric Auer** · 11-10-2021, 11:53 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Not a Number

If for some reason I had to give up the original images I would rather turn over a memory card than the whole camera.

Pretty sure most semi pro/pro cameras will have a SD slot as well or something else removable.

**jlstrawman** · 11-10-2021, 12:01 PM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by Eric Auer

Pretty sure most semi pro/pro cameras will have a SD slot as well or something else removable.

https://www.techradar.com/news/what-is-cfexpress-the-new-camera-memory-card-format-explained

Fogel70 · 11-10-2021, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Eric Auer

Not an issue if the drive can be powered from the micro USB port as well as from the camera.

I'm not sure that would be possible if the main board is damaged, FI by water intrusion.

**Eric Auer** · 11-10-2021, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by jlstrawman

https://www.techradar.com/news/what-is-cfexpress-the-new-camera-memory-card-format-explained

Whats your point?

**Eric Auer** · 11-10-2021, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by Fogel70

I'm not sure thzt would be possible if the main board is damaged, FI by water infusion.

Or if the camera was in an explosion, fell in to a void, burned in a fire etc etc.

Sigh...

DeadJohn · 11-10-2021, 12:37 PM

I welcome cameras with fast internal storage, fast transfers, and no need for slow removable cards.

The Mavic 3 w/ 1 TB SSD costs $5000 USD. It's easy to include the SSD at that price point. It will take longer for SSDs to become common cheap enough for $1000 cameras.

Others have mentioned concerns about SSD lifetime. With the wear leveling built into a modern SSD, mechanical parts of the camera will fail before the SSD.

Another consideration is the physical size of an SSD. Can it fit into than the card slot area of a compact camera?

**Eric Auer** · 11-10-2021, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by DeadJohn

I welcome cameras with fast internal storage, fast transfers, and no need for slow removable cards.

The Mavic 3 w/ 1 TB SSD costs $5000 USD. It's easy to include the SSD at that price point. It will take longer for SSDs to become common cheap enough for $1000 cameras.

Others have mentioned concerns about SSD lifetime. With the wear leveling built into a modern SSD, mechanical parts of the camera will fail before the SSD.

Another consideration is the physical size of an SSD. Can it fit into than the card slot area of a compact camera?

Well, it wouldnt have to be in the card slot area at all.

35mmfilmfan · 11-10-2021, 12:45 PM - **3 Likes**

I use one 64GB SD card per year in my K3. I have a stock of ten unused ones. I fully expect there to be some left unused by the time I no longer need them !

11-10-2021, 10:01 AM	#1
TDvN57 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Berlin Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,149	Is it time to ditch the SD card concept? Just watched a review of the new Mavic III drone with Hassie 4/3 camera and no removable storage. According to the reviewer it has a 1tb SSD built into the camera. To make it practical the camera connects with USB-C. I've wondered about this concept for some time now and I recall a short discussion about as well here on the forum. But realistically, if we can enable ourselves to temporarily let go of what we find as must-haves in a system and consider what new technology offers, then it opens up new horizons. For example if there was a SSD solution available at the beginning stages of digital cameras, would they have ever considered a small removable cartridge, eg SD card? A built in SSD solves a lot of issues, the biggest advantage would be no need for a large buffer because the SSD can write fast enough. With regard to reliability, well my MS-Surface has a 1tb SSD built into the motherboard and it is still working everyday. If reliability is a serious concern, perhaps a second 1 or 2tb SSD also built in could solve that concern as well. Transferring data off of the camera with USB-C is fast and there are various options available such as a laptop, or a storage unit with the smarts to dump the incoming data onto a SSD and/or plugin drives. There are a couple of these devices in the market. What are you your thoughts? Could this be a viable solution for Pentax to add to a 150mpx FF 645 one day?

11-10-2021, 11:18 AM - 7 Likes	#5
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	I would not like a non removable storage. In case the camera breaks down it cannot be fun to no longer have access to the images. Last edited by Fogel70; 11-16-2021 at 08:57 AM.

11-10-2021, 12:04 PM	#10
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by Eric Auer Not an issue if the drive can be powered from the micro USB port as well as from the camera. I'm not sure that would be possible if the main board is damaged, FI by water intrusion. Last edited by Fogel70; 11-10-2021 at 12:40 PM.

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11-10-2021, 10:16 AM - 1 Like	#2
StiffLegged Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2018 Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,619	It depends on how long the SSD lasts compared to the shutter - SSDs have a finite life in read/write cycles so you wouldn’t want a camera’s storage to expire before the shutter wears out as an SSD soldered to the other circuitry wouldn’t be easily replaceable. SD cards (or whatever flavour) can at least be easily replaced if they fail. Should Pentax move to a shutterless body like Nikon just have with the Z9, the lifetime of an SSD becomes more of a consideration, I think.

11-10-2021, 10:44 AM	#3
AggieDad Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Houston, TX Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,453	I think an SSD is a very practical idea. I suspect it could be a "plug-in" of some sort that could be replaced if needed. Although, I must admit the SSDs I have for my computers have shown excellent reliability. An idea for Pentax? Probably not. My impression is that Pentax does not want to be anywhere near the forefront of any change or innovation.

11-10-2021, 11:05 AM	#4
vonBaloney Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 6,029	Modern quality SSDs should last way longer than the shutter in most cases.

11-10-2021, 11:35 AM - 7 Likes	#6
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	If for some reason I had to give up the original images I would rather turn over a memory card than the whole camera.

11-10-2021, 11:51 AM	#7
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by Fogel70 I would not like a non removable storage. In case the camera brakes down it cannot be fun to no longer have access to the images. Not an issue if the drive can be powered from the micro USB port as well as from the camera. Pretty sure this will be the case on any somewhat serious camera with a fixed drive. Also would not surprise me if the camera also had wifi that can run off the camera battery independently for even more transfer options.

11-10-2021, 11:53 AM - 1 Like	#8
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by Not a Number If for some reason I had to give up the original images I would rather turn over a memory card than the whole camera. Pretty sure most semi pro/pro cameras will have a SD slot as well or something else removable.

11-10-2021, 12:01 PM - 3 Likes	#9
jlstrawman Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Midwest US Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,058	Originally posted by Eric Auer Pretty sure most semi pro/pro cameras will have a SD slot as well or something else removable. https://www.techradar.com/news/what-is-cfexpress-the-new-camera-memory-card-format-explained

11-10-2021, 12:19 PM	#11
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by jlstrawman https://www.techradar.com/news/what-is-cfexpress-the-new-camera-memory-card-format-explained Whats your point?

11-10-2021, 12:21 PM	#12
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by Fogel70 I'm not sure thzt would be possible if the main board is damaged, FI by water infusion. Or if the camera was in an explosion, fell in to a void, burned in a fire etc etc. Sigh...

11-10-2021, 12:37 PM	#13
DeadJohn Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New York Posts: 4,834	I welcome cameras with fast internal storage, fast transfers, and no need for slow removable cards. The Mavic 3 w/ 1 TB SSD costs $5000 USD. It's easy to include the SSD at that price point. It will take longer for SSDs to become common cheap enough for $1000 cameras. Others have mentioned concerns about SSD lifetime. With the wear leveling built into a modern SSD, mechanical parts of the camera will fail before the SSD. Another consideration is the physical size of an SSD. Can it fit into than the card slot area of a compact camera?

11-10-2021, 12:41 PM	#14
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by DeadJohn I welcome cameras with fast internal storage, fast transfers, and no need for slow removable cards. The Mavic 3 w/ 1 TB SSD costs $5000 USD. It's easy to include the SSD at that price point. It will take longer for SSDs to become common cheap enough for $1000 cameras. Others have mentioned concerns about SSD lifetime. With the wear leveling built into a modern SSD, mechanical parts of the camera will fail before the SSD. Another consideration is the physical size of an SSD. Can it fit into than the card slot area of a compact camera? Well, it wouldnt have to be in the card slot area at all.

11-10-2021, 12:45 PM - 3 Likes	#15
35mmfilmfan Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Norfolk, UK Posts: 4,329	I use one 64GB SD card per year in my K3. I have a stock of ten unused ones. I fully expect there to be some left unused by the time I no longer need them !