Is it time to ditch the SD card concept?

Roland Karlsson · 11-17-2021, 05:10 AM

Of course. Everything is possible. Having internal memory is like having non exchangeable lenses and battery.

But, just as for battery there are some limitations.

When the battery is flat or the media full the camera is dead. Same when the media or battery gets old.

Also, maybe media gets larger and larger and faster and faster. Imagine having an older camera with that times memory capacity and speed. Would that be fun?

And as someone said. If a guard comes and tells you to give him your images? Not fun if that is the whole camera.

Also, some cameras have strange ways to connect. They do not really connect as a drive, but some strange pseudo drive, or not at all. Needing special software to fetch the images.

The last one is a real issue. I have had cameras where it was a pain to download images, but removing the media and put it in a reader a breeze.

nightjockey · 11-17-2021, 05:59 AM

I always prefer removable storage because it keeps it a healthy distance from the camera. If a card fails you can simply pop a new one in and if the camera is knackered, at least the card can be removed. Also as cards improve you can immediately benefit from using them rather than having to change camera. There is also the benefit of using multiple cards so that if one fails, everything is not lost. I would not want 1TB of shots sitting on one card let alone a built in SSD.

I also prefer removable storage on my mobile.

reh321 · 11-17-2021, 06:38 AM

When I was in grad school, I was awakened by an acrid smell. The batteries had failed in my new-fangled electronic flash.
That was many years ago, but I still prefer removable batteries and memory.
I would rather replace them than replace the device they are imbedded in.

Roland Karlsson · 11-17-2021, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by nightjockey

I always prefer removable storage because it keeps it a healthy distance from the camera. If a card fails you can simply pop a new one in and if the camera is knackered, at least the card can be removed. Also as cards improve you can immediately benefit from using them rather than having to change camera. There is also the benefit of using multiple cards so that if one fails, everything is not lost. I would not want 1TB of shots sitting on one card let alone a built in SSD.

I also prefer removable storage on my mobile.

I automatically backs up my photos in my phone to Google. This works as I do not take all that many photos with my phone.

reh321 · 11-17-2021, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by Roland Karlsson

I automatically backs up my photos in my phone to Google. This works as I do not take all that many photos with my phone.

My iPhone is also automatically backed up, but I also photograph very little with it.
We replace iPhones every few years - in fact Verizon is pushing on us to do so {and upgrade our plans} right now.
My concern would be with a ‘real’ camera - I take lots of pictures out of WiFi range, and I would hate to lose anything before we get back home.

added: Before I ever got a digital camera, I ‘vowed’ to get a laptop computer so I could make a backup every evening.

Jonathan Mac · 11-17-2021, 08:56 AM

I think removable storage is still the best option, though I have to say if it weren't available then I'd need to put more effort into backing up my images onto a HDD or into the cloud rather than just buying a new memory card.

**Eric Auer** · 11-17-2021, 09:04 AM

TBH, in camera storage will probably be a thing of the past on Consumer/Prosumer grade cameras within 4-5 years anyhow. And probably DSLR's will no longer be around either.

Roland Karlsson · 11-17-2021, 09:47 AM

What will be a thing of the past is anyones guess. We have actually had both removable and fixed batteries and media in parallel a very long time. Battery systems for power tools becomes more and more frequent. Cameras without media, only with internet access? Maybe, or maybe not.

normhead · 11-17-2021, 10:06 AM

When I'm nine days into wilderness and a minimum of 2 days away from internet access, what then?

**Eric Auer** · 11-17-2021, 10:10 AM

Originally posted by normhead

When I'm nine days into wilderness and a minimum of 2 days away from internet access, what then?

Film.

:P

normhead · 11-17-2021, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Eric Auer

Film.
:P

Very funny.

Roland Karlsson · 11-17-2021, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by normhead

When I'm nine days into wilderness and a minimum of 2 days away from internet access, what then?

Maybe a build in flash disk with 10TB of memory? That is 250.000 large images.

Personally I am a bit more worried about power. A solar cell charger on your back pack?

/Roland

normhead · 11-17-2021, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Roland Karlsson

Maybe a build in flash disk with 10TB of memory? That is 250.000 large images.

Personally I am a bit more worried about power. A solar cell charger on your back pack?

/Roland

I usually travel every second day, (a function of getting older, the youngsters never rest) so I often recharge on a rest day with a solar panels. As yet I have no way to recharge the camera batteries.

reh321 · 11-17-2021, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by normhead

I usually travel every second day, (a function of getting older, the youngsters never rest) so I often recharge on a rest day with a solar panels. As yet I have no way to recharge the camera batteries.

Do you have a solar panel system that outputs usb power?
There are systems that will charge a Pentax battery using usb input.
I always have thought that kind of system would be good starter for solar-based charging system.

CapitanXeon · 11-17-2021, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Roland Karlsson

Maybe a build in flash disk with 10TB of memory? That is 250.000 large images.

Personally I am a bit more worried about power. A solar cell charger on your back pack?

/Roland

An 8TB SSD drive is already 1600€. Using a 10TB drive would actually mean that the camera packs some 12 or 16GB SSD partitioned in a way that keeps 10TB available to the user, with the rest private to the camera firmware for its own operation as well as cell health purposes. 16TB would already net 3200€ in a format that's stupidly big for a DSLR, so miniaturization would come in and you'd be the one paying that tax. I'm not here to pay 4 grand just for the camera storage, honestly, when i can just use the ol' reliable cards that we aren't having any issues with.

And here, the "failing card" argument wouldn't be working because then we'd be talking about a completely failed camera that'd need to go servicing.

11-17-2021, 05:10 AM	#76
Roland Karlsson Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 122	Everything is possible Of course. Everything is possible. Having internal memory is like having non exchangeable lenses and battery. But, just as for battery there are some limitations. When the battery is flat or the media full the camera is dead. Same when the media or battery gets old. Also, maybe media gets larger and larger and faster and faster. Imagine having an older camera with that times memory capacity and speed. Would that be fun? And as someone said. If a guard comes and tells you to give him your images? Not fun if that is the whole camera. Also, some cameras have strange ways to connect. They do not really connect as a drive, but some strange pseudo drive, or not at all. Needing special software to fetch the images. The last one is a real issue. I have had cameras where it was a pain to download images, but removing the media and put it in a reader a breeze.

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11-17-2021, 05:59 AM	#77
nightjockey New Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Basildon, Essex Photos: Gallery Posts: 10	I always prefer removable storage because it keeps it a healthy distance from the camera. If a card fails you can simply pop a new one in and if the camera is knackered, at least the card can be removed. Also as cards improve you can immediately benefit from using them rather than having to change camera. There is also the benefit of using multiple cards so that if one fails, everything is not lost. I would not want 1TB of shots sitting on one card let alone a built in SSD. I also prefer removable storage on my mobile.

11-17-2021, 06:38 AM	#78
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	When I was in grad school, I was awakened by an acrid smell. The batteries had failed in my new-fangled electronic flash. That was many years ago, but I still prefer removable batteries and memory. I would rather replace them than replace the device they are imbedded in.

11-17-2021, 07:05 AM	#79
Roland Karlsson Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 122	Originally posted by nightjockey I always prefer removable storage because it keeps it a healthy distance from the camera. If a card fails you can simply pop a new one in and if the camera is knackered, at least the card can be removed. Also as cards improve you can immediately benefit from using them rather than having to change camera. There is also the benefit of using multiple cards so that if one fails, everything is not lost. I would not want 1TB of shots sitting on one card let alone a built in SSD. I also prefer removable storage on my mobile. I automatically backs up my photos in my phone to Google. This works as I do not take all that many photos with my phone.

11-17-2021, 07:34 AM	#80
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by Roland Karlsson I automatically backs up my photos in my phone to Google. This works as I do not take all that many photos with my phone. My iPhone is also automatically backed up, but I also photograph very little with it. We replace iPhones every few years - in fact Verizon is pushing on us to do so {and upgrade our plans} right now. My concern would be with a ‘real’ camera - I take lots of pictures out of WiFi range, and I would hate to lose anything before we get back home. added: Before I ever got a digital camera, I ‘vowed’ to get a laptop computer so I could make a backup every evening.

11-17-2021, 08:56 AM	#81
Jonathan Mac Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madrid, Spain Posts: 10,894	I think removable storage is still the best option, though I have to say if it weren't available then I'd need to put more effort into backing up my images onto a HDD or into the cloud rather than just buying a new memory card.

11-17-2021, 09:04 AM	#82
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	TBH, in camera storage will probably be a thing of the past on Consumer/Prosumer grade cameras within 4-5 years anyhow. And probably DSLR's will no longer be around either.

11-17-2021, 09:47 AM	#83
Roland Karlsson Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 122	What will be a thing of the past is anyones guess. We have actually had both removable and fixed batteries and media in parallel a very long time. Battery systems for power tools becomes more and more frequent. Cameras without media, only with internet access? Maybe, or maybe not.

11-17-2021, 10:06 AM	#84
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	When I'm nine days into wilderness and a minimum of 2 days away from internet access, what then?

11-17-2021, 10:10 AM	#85
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by normhead When I'm nine days into wilderness and a minimum of 2 days away from internet access, what then? Film. :P

11-17-2021, 10:30 AM	#86
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Eric Auer Film. :P Very funny.

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11-17-2021, 12:29 PM	#87
Roland Karlsson Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 122	Originally posted by normhead When I'm nine days into wilderness and a minimum of 2 days away from internet access, what then? Maybe a build in flash disk with 10TB of memory? That is 250.000 large images. Personally I am a bit more worried about power. A solar cell charger on your back pack? /Roland

11-17-2021, 02:57 PM	#88
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Roland Karlsson Maybe a build in flash disk with 10TB of memory? That is 250.000 large images. Personally I am a bit more worried about power. A solar cell charger on your back pack? /Roland I usually travel every second day, (a function of getting older, the youngsters never rest) so I often recharge on a rest day with a solar panels. As yet I have no way to recharge the camera batteries.

11-17-2021, 03:08 PM	#89
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,177	Originally posted by normhead I usually travel every second day, (a function of getting older, the youngsters never rest) so I often recharge on a rest day with a solar panels. As yet I have no way to recharge the camera batteries. Do you have a solar panel system that outputs usb power? There are systems that will charge a Pentax battery using usb input. I always have thought that kind of system would be good starter for solar-based charging system.

11-17-2021, 05:37 PM	#90
CapitanXeon Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Terrassa Posts: 220	Originally posted by Roland Karlsson Maybe a build in flash disk with 10TB of memory? That is 250.000 large images. Personally I am a bit more worried about power. A solar cell charger on your back pack? /Roland An 8TB SSD drive is already 1600€. Using a 10TB drive would actually mean that the camera packs some 12 or 16GB SSD partitioned in a way that keeps 10TB available to the user, with the rest private to the camera firmware for its own operation as well as cell health purposes. 16TB would already net 3200€ in a format that's stupidly big for a DSLR, so miniaturization would come in and you'd be the one paying that tax. I'm not here to pay 4 grand just for the camera storage, honestly, when i can just use the ol' reliable cards that we aren't having any issues with. And here, the "failing card" argument wouldn't be working because then we'd be talking about a completely failed camera that'd need to go servicing.