Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-18-2021, 01:08 AM   #91
Senior Member




Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Corfu, Greece
Photos: Albums
Posts: 104
I'd be VERY concerned about the power and data cable jack.
I change my phone every 1.5 years, usually the reason is that the power jack has failed. That's how long it takes for me.
Unless i drop the phone too many times, or go swimming with it, in which case i need to change the phone sooner.
USB-C seems sturdier than previous jacks.

11-18-2021, 02:06 AM   #92
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
TDvN57's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Berlin
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,137
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by CapitanXeon Quote
An 8TB SSD drive is already 1600€. Using a 10TB drive would actually mean that the camera packs some 12 or 16GB SSD partitioned in a way that keeps 10TB available to the user, with the rest private to the camera firmware for its own operation as well as cell health purposes. 16TB would already net 3200€ in a format that's stupidly big for a DSLR, so miniaturization would come in and you'd be the one paying that tax. I'm not here to pay 4 grand just for the camera storage, honestly, when i can just use the ol' reliable cards that we aren't having any issues with.

And here, the "failing card" argument wouldn't be working because then we'd be talking about a completely failed camera that'd need to go servicing.
Help me here on the arithmetic:
8tb in 128gb cards equates to 64 sd cards.

I wonder how many people fill up that many sd cards before they get an opportunity to copy the sd cards to a computer, laptop or external drive.

Sounds like a high risk move to trust that many sd cards with an expedition's image data before securing it on some other media.

If I go on a photo trip I copy the data from the cards to my laptop's two internal drives twice a day. Once at lunch and again at night.

Thus, 8tb sounds a bit over the top. I think 1tb m.2 built-in SSD plus a USB-C port could be sufficient.

On a related subject, I am thinking of getting one of these units for in-field securing image data. It looks versatile enough to cover my data security concerns and the number of external storage devices you can connect to it seems plenty enough.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1481554-REG/nexto_di_nps_10_cfast_portable_all_in_1.html

Last edited by TDvN57; 11-18-2021 at 02:22 AM.
11-18-2021, 08:03 AM   #93
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
Mooncatt's Avatar

Join Date: May 2020
Location: Wisconsin
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,369
QuoteOriginally posted by TDvN57 Quote
Sounds like a high risk move to trust that many sd cards with an expedition's image data before securing it on some other media.
I think in a hiking situation, the more likely risk is a catastrophic loss where it wouldn't matter. For example, if your pack falls into a river or gorge that you can't retrieve it. At that point, it doesn't matter what your storage media is. It's arguable that multiple SD card storage is the safer bet, because I think they can handle being submerged if properly dried. If you fall, they are also less likely to break than a more bulky backup device. I know many photographers will use multiple smaller SD cards instead of a single large one. That way if a card fails, you don't lose it all.

QuoteQuote:
Thus, 8tb sounds a bit over the top. I think 1tb m.2 built-in SSD plus a USB-C port could be sufficient.
I could see going with something like this as long as it's a true m.2 drive that is still removable and somehow offers faster performance on the camera. As it stands now, I still wouldn't want that because they are more expensive and more fragile than an SD card. They are meant for stationary pc use, not banged around in a camera and swapped out. There's also a heat concern depending on how it's utilized.
11-18-2021, 08:56 AM   #94
Pentaxian
photoptimist's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2016
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,113
The other issue is that high speed SSDs need a lot of power: averaging about 7 watts and peaking at 2.5 amps. That's far more than the batteries of current hand-held cameras can provide.

Drones have big high-power battery packs to run the drone motors. The battery on the Mavic 3 is double the voltage and more than double the charge capacity (4X more power) than the battery in a Pentax camera.

11-18-2021, 01:14 PM   #95
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Zuiderkempen - Grote Netewoud - Belgium
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,352
QuoteOriginally posted by TDvN57 Quote
Very informative, thank you @mlag.

I wonder what motivated Hasselblad to omit the removable storage option in their Mavic 3 Cine camera and replace with a 1tb SSD. On the DJI website they say it is to save space and make it faster to save the large amount of data.
If focus on large HD or 4k movie I can understand a move to a " harddisk like "mass storage device like an ssd : it offers large capacity albeit still less than harddisk but more than a sd card, it is robust enough (unlike harddisks) , comes at a cost (price , power and battery) that can be justified in high end movie device....
11-18-2021, 01:29 PM   #96
Pentaxian
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,124
QuoteOriginally posted by TDvN57 Quote
Very informative, thank you @mlag.

I wonder what motivated Hasselblad to omit the removable storage option in their Mavic 3 Cine camera and replace with a 1tb SSD. On the DJI website they say it is to save space and make it faster to save the large amount of data.
Perhaps vibration was a problem in that environment.
11-18-2021, 08:23 PM - 1 Like   #97
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
TDvN57's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Berlin
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,137
Original Poster
It seems the informed consensus is that:

a) fast removable technology exists.

b) the convenience of having removable storage media seems to outweigh any other potential benefit of an on-board solution.

c) power demand for an on-board system seems to be the a main potential obstacle and make it undesirable.

d) moving to an on-board storage solution would be trying to gain an advantage that does not exist.

If you all agree then shall we call this topic a wrap?

It was great to see the level of expertise and willingness to share and participate in discussions that further our collective understanding of the technology we play and work with.

Great thanks to all that shared and participated.

11-19-2021, 03:16 AM   #98
Pentaxian
Jonathan Mac's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 10,847
QuoteOriginally posted by miles Quote
I'd be VERY concerned about the power and data cable jack.
I change my phone every 1.5 years, usually the reason is that the power jack has failed. That's how long it takes for me.
Unless i drop the phone too many times, or go swimming with it, in which case i need to change the phone sooner.
USB-C seems sturdier than previous jacks.
USB-C does indeed seem to be sturdier. I had a micro-USB on a previous phone changed for €30, which I think is not bad at all, but I mostly use wireless charging these days in order to avoid those sort of problems. My current phone has now lasted three years, more than any other I've ever had, I think.
11-19-2021, 08:03 AM   #99
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 122
QuoteOriginally posted by CapitanXeon Quote
An 8TB SSD drive is already 1600€. Using a 10TB drive would actually mean that the camera packs some 12 or 16GB SSD partitioned in a way that keeps 10TB available to the user, with the rest private to the camera firmware for its own operation as well as cell health purposes. 16TB would already net 3200€ in a format that's stupidly big for a DSLR, so miniaturization would come in and you'd be the one paying that tax. I'm not here to pay 4 grand just for the camera storage, honestly, when i can just use the ol' reliable cards that we aren't having any issues with.

And here, the "failing card" argument wouldn't be working because then we'd be talking about a completely failed camera that'd need to go servicing.
Of course. We were talking about the future. And the question was: is removable media on its way out,

Personally I hope not, but there is always a technological drive. Look at you phones. Can you switch battery? Why not? Price! And the demand for thinness!
11-19-2021, 09:03 AM   #100
Site Supporter
Eric Auer's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,211
QuoteOriginally posted by Roland Karlsson Quote
Of course. We were talking about the future. And the question was: is removable media on its way out,

Personally I hope not, but there is always a technological drive. Look at you phones. Can you switch battery? Why not? Price! And the demand for thinness!
TBH, modern phones go for days on a charge and the batteries last many years. Most peoples phone is more likely to be severly outdated before the battery becomes an issue.
I dont think that compares to removable vs. non-removable media at all.

On the subject of phones tho, 99% of the people I know dont care about removable media one bit.

If the next mirrorless Canicon in the under $1000 range has no removable media I seriously doubt that that has any meaningful impact on sales figures.
11-19-2021, 09:13 AM   #101
Pentaxian
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 23,124
QuoteOriginally posted by Roland Karlsson Quote
Look at you phones. Can you switch battery? Why not? Price! And the demand for thinness!
I get a new iPhone every few years.
I hope my real camera lasts much longer than that.
11-19-2021, 11:14 AM   #102
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 122
QuoteOriginally posted by Eric Auer Quote
TBH, modern phones go for days on a charge and the batteries last many years. Most peoples phone is more likely to be severly outdated before the battery becomes an issue.
I dont think that compares to removable vs. non-removable media at all.
Agree

QuoteQuote:
On the subject of phones tho, 99% of the people I know dont care about removable media one bit.
Very few people download images from their phones. They send them, or upload them automatically. No need for remove the media.

QuoteQuote:
If the next mirrorless Canicon in the under $1000 range has no removable media I seriously doubt that that has any meaningful impact on sales figures.
Here I am a bit uncertain. I think the main reason for phones not needing it is because they have Internet access. And the next reason is that phone owners do not consider themselves photographers. The camera is just a fun/practical tool.

But, getting a system camera is a totally different story.
11-20-2021, 10:44 AM   #103
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 300
My wife's 13 month old laptop had a catastrophic SSD Failure just last year for no apparent reason.. thanks to extended warranty .. replaced free of charge, but it was out of commission for 2 weeks and everything not backed up was lost. I would much rather have dual card slots for redundancy, rather than rely on 1 internal storage drive. Too many things can happen to a camera that can induce a SSD failure for my comfort, ranging from drops to significant temperature changes, to just imperfect manufacturing or QC, etc, and having say a 1TB ssd on board doesn't really gain me anything if I am transferring images to a computer anyway. Also don't know if an SSD in camera would put more demands on battery life versus just writing to a card or if there are weight penalties for SSD vs SD card.

Smartphone batteries can be replaced depending on the model... and some offer micro SD card slots for those who want more storage capacity... sadly my i-phone offers neither, but I don't really use it much beyond convenience daily snaps.
11-22-2021, 05:42 AM   #104
Moderator
Not a Number's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Venice, CA
Posts: 10,509
Dual SD card slots could allow hot swapping of cards as the fill up.
11-30-2021, 10:06 AM   #105
Senior Member




Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Terrassa
Posts: 220
QuoteOriginally posted by Roland Karlsson Quote
Look at you phones. Can you switch battery? Why not? Price! And the demand for thinness!
I mean... I can, but yeah, all it does is making it harder for the average joe. This would make for a better comparision if we went for integrated batteries in camera. I hope that's a no-go as well.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
645d, 645z, camera, card, concern, data, ditch the sd, medium format, reliability, sd card, sd slot, ssd, time to ditch, usb-c
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K-1 SD Card write time: gets worse with time? HippyHippo Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 21 01-06-2019 11:43 PM
SD card Just bought an Sandisk Ultra SD XC1 64 Gig Card and comes up with error Craig Hickman Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 10 07-30-2018 11:37 PM
For Sale - Sold: Fuji F550EXR, 4GB Eye-Fi SD Card, 4GB SD Card, 2 Batt + 6BQ5 Sold Items 3 09-16-2013 08:19 PM
Crap! My new class 10 sd card run much slower than my old class 4 sd card... liukaitc Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 15 05-31-2011 01:39 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:04 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top