[texandrews]

I will take it for "nothing"

I'll see your nothing and raise you 5 bux!

Seriously, though, Gyroscope....still not clear why you want to dump it.

[biz-engineer]

Their image making power will continue to be compelling for decades.

I asked myself if I was right to sell all my Pentax apsc gear when I bought the Pentax K1 system. If I didn't sell my apsc gear, having the K1 now, the apsc kit would have never seen the light again and it wouldn't have funded part of the K1 kit. So I'm glad I sold.

[Gyroscope]

I'll see your nothing and raise you 5 bux!

Seriously, though, Gyroscope....still not clear why you want to dump it.

Well its a long story but it is essentially because of weight and complexity. I loved the Z but it didn't suit all shooting situations so I got a K1 and 15-30 for the ultrawide. Great combo for when I wanted ultrawide field of view BUT I had to carry the enormous filter holder and filter system for that lens and there were no other options available for an utrawide zoom. So I was lugging around 2 camera systems both of them heavy and I didn't have the capacity to also carry a 70-200 which i was finding I wanted to shoot more. Plus I have bad shoulders, a dicky lower back and sore thumbs and fingers from RSI from mouse use in my day job so handling the Z (3kg with the 28-25) was becoming tiresome. So in the end I bought an S1r, the 16-35F4 and the 70-200F4 so I can do all my shooing with the one reasonably sized system. I also already had a G9 which has decent image quality for a backup or timelapses and the fast primes for it that weigh virtually nothing. Shooting is now simpler and more enjoyable for me, it wasn't about image quality or the camera holding me back. I loved the Z files but honestly the S1R files are also pretty good and any shortcomings are bearable for what is realistically just a hobby.

[KiloHotelphoto]

The market for medium format is small and the market for Pentax is getting smaller and smaller with what Fuji is putting out in the GFX line.

The 645Z is a great camera but when you put it next to any of the Fuji 50 bodies or the 100S it’s huge and a lot heavier. With adapters you can also use Pentax glass on the Fuji bodies so I’m sure some people who did shoot 645D and Z switched to Fuji without having to buy all new glass.

I sold my 645Z in October of 2020 to KEH and they gave me a fair price. I could’ve gotten more if I sold it on my own but who knows how long it would’ve taken. When I sold my DA560 I had it listed here for months and only got one person who wanted it but they were in Europe and shipping was ridiculously high so it wasn’t worth it to them. After about three months of getting messages from people saying they wish they could afford it I sold that to B&H just to move it and get some money for it.

[TDvN57]

I would like to suggest a different title for this topic:

Electronic camera worthless after seven years of use.

Might be a bit more accurate.

[biz-engineer]

Electronic camera worthless after seven years of use.Might be a bit more accurate.

I understood the same thing when I looked at film cameras / large format. Every digital camera model released since around 2005, has seen most of its value drop to nothing as new improved camera models were released, like memory cards and computers. I think the price per gigabyte of memory card is halved every two year, I can now get a 128GB card for less than the price I paid for a 64GB two years ago. In the meantime, used film camera prices remained approximately steady and even increased in recent years, but the money you don't have to pay for the film bodies, you have to spend it on the film rolls/sheets and development. The guys who buy digital cameras used save a ton of money, and the guys who want the latest tech. spend a ton of money.

[EssJayEff]

I don't know how this compares with what you expect, but I bought my 645z in Jan. 2021 for $2350; and paid $1800 for the 645D about a year before.

I would expect to pay somewhat less today.

Roberts Camera's eBay store currently has a 645Z for $2,278 or best offer. Roberts is a legit store. I used to live in Indianapolis and bought photo paper and chemicals there. I think I even purchased a Rollieflex there, too.

[btnapa]

Sorry not really a question more of comment and wondering if anyone is engaging in the market for this camera at all now given the Fuji system and others

You are right. I think people are looking at other systems. I think the uncertainty with Pentax and horror stories about Pentax service are keeping people away. It is a heartbreaking to see this happen to 645Z. It was the first and is still as good as anything out there when it comes to image quality. I do check eBay and FM to see if any 645Z systems showup. I do see them from time-to-time but if I get one it would be to satisfy my GAS and braggin rights but not for any practical use.

[biz-engineer]

I think the uncertainty with Pentax and horror stories about Pentax service are keeping people away.

There's probably some of this effect (Pentax brand image), but it should be pretty minor. The Fuji 50R and 50S are also very hard to sell. When the 100 and 100S were released, there were at least six body of GFX50R and 50S for sale used at 2500 Eur at my local camera shop, after a few months not finding buyers they dropped prices, I was offered a GFX50S one almost new ( < 5000 clicks ) for 2000 Euro. The reason why such 50Mp medium format are hard to sell is because they are now in competition with full frame systems that can also deliver ~50Mpixels, but with much better auto-focus, and a wide range of cheaper and more versatile lenses (zooms). Typically, Sony A7 RIV deliver equivalent resolution, with much quicker AF, higher frame rates in a compact body. I was on the edge of buying a 50Mp MF camera with lenses, but the difference with full frame K1 isn't big enough to justify spending the money. IMO, such cameras, like P645z, are meaningful complement for someone having an K3 III based system.

[btnapa]

There's probably some of this effect (Pentax brand image), but it should be pretty minor. The Fuji 50R and 50S are also very hard to sell. When the 100 and 100S were released, there were at least six body of GFX50R and 50S for sale used at 2500 Eur at my local camera shop, after a few months not finding buyers they dropped prices, I was offered a GFX50S one almost new ( < 5000 clicks ) for 2000 Euro. The reason why such 50Mp medium format are hard to sell is because they are now in competition with full frame systems that can also deliver ~50Mpixels, but with much better auto-focus, and a wide range of cheaper and more versatile lenses (zooms). Typically, Sony A7 RIV deliver equivalent resolution, with much quicker AF, higher frame rates in a compact body. I was on the edge of buying a 50Mp MF camera with lenses, but the difference with full frame K1 isn't big enough to justify spending the money. IMO, such cameras, like P645z, are meaningful complement for someone having an K3 III based system.

You are absolutely correct. The old tech is harder to sell once you get much improved cameras for still relatively low prices. I remember the days of 20MP backs which were going for $20-30K plus. My Sony A7RIV would run circles around those old "high end" backs! I graduated from K1 to Sony A7RIV to gain 4K video and in the process I also gained massive resolution boost too.

I will always be a Pentaxian a heart but I cannot ignore client needs and capabilities that sometimes are not there in a Pentax system. I needed video but after trying eye focus and tracking in the A7RIV, I don't think I can go with anything else. I had a fair amount of missed focuses with my K1 and it hurt because I knew my FA Limiteds could deliver the goods and K1 has an awesome 36MP sensor inside. I have shot with my niece's Rebel class camera which has better focusing than my K1.

---------- Post added 05-06-22 at 11:51 AM ----------

IMO, such cameras, like P645z, are meaningful complement for someone having an K3 III based system.

That is what I was thinking when I added Fuji X to my K1 to cover hi-res stills and 4K video. After about two years, I got tired of carrying two systems both in size, weight and cost. So, I went with Sony A7RIV which offers both capabilities in one camera system. I also chose Tamron which is totally committed to the Sony system and has released all the lenses I will ever need to get the job done.

[TDvN57]

Regardless of an item being a camera or a computer, it will depreciate much faster than a film camera. The quality of a film camera's image capture system is the film, excluding for sake of comparison the lens system.

A digital system has a depreciating image capture system: the sensor.

To say the 645z is almost worthless after seven years, compared to its launch price, might be true, but it is also true for all seven year old cameras. And one can include all electronic equipment in that statement.

Would you buy a laptop that is seven years old for the same price as the launch price? If you really want that old model, you'll probably pickup one on the internet at +/-20% of the launch price, The same applies to electronic cameras. It is not an investment, it's a consumable.

The surprise is that after seven years the 645z sensor is still regarded amongst top of of the line sensors. (Since this is a Pentax forum I'm not including the other cameras with the same sensor.)

[BigMackCam]

I will always be a Pentaxian a heart but I cannot ignore client needs and capabilities that sometimes are not there in a Pentax system. I needed video but after trying eye focus and tracking in the A7RIV, I don't think I can go with anything else. I had a fair amount of missed focuses with my K1 and it hurt because I knew my FA Limiteds could deliver the goods and K1 has an awesome 36MP sensor inside. I have shot with my niece's Rebel class camera which has better focusing than my K1.

Every system and camera has different compromises. If someone can be equally happy or happier still shooting with an EVF rather than OVF, then current mirrorless cameras with on sensor PDAF sensors are always going to offer more dependable auto-focus, and without the need for AF fine adjustment. Folks who prefer an OVF have to accept a trade-off due to separate PDAF sensors... Canon seems to have led the field with DSLR "dual pixel" AF, but mirrorless cameras with on-sensor PDAF - for those who can live with EVF - still perform better in this respect. Those who prefer shooting with an OVF - and, in this case, with Pentax gear - simply have to accept the level of AF accuracy on offer. It's gradually improving, but it will never match mirrorless levels - but that's OK for most of us here. We each shoot with that which does the job well enough for our needs and - importantly - makes us happiest

[texandrews]

Well, I've heard enough of this. I'll just say that my 645Z is performing admirably, just as it did when I bought it in 2014, and still offers me a competitive advantage over other cameras I've used.
Years ago, no one (who was taken seriously) talked about how much better their new camera was than an older model for the most part. These days it's different because of the sensor---but to me it's the files that count, and the system I can deploy. The 645Z continues to deliver exemplary results, and the system is superior to all others with respect to available FL's coupled with an incredibly capable body---more capable than most photographers' skills. I just came from a shoot at an Embassy in DC. I had to use my K1mkII today as well---to photograph a large (3x5 meters) tapestry from a distance of less than 3 meters (yes...), so I needed a more extreme UWA than the 25mm I could use with the Z, and I'll still have to stitch. But normally it would be the Z all the way for what I do.

The doom and gloom about the Z is irritating and makes my brain tired. I have better things to make my brain tired about.

[w2ck]

Hi,

I have come to the conclusion that with the current offerings, I'd prefer the 645Z over the Fuji 50s of either mk-I or-II. Now,. I'd greatly prefer the 100 (not the 100s) but that price tag is above my pay grade. And, I am getting by with a 645D with limited CCD, so any body with the Sony 50 MP sensor is an improvement. But, given I'd be using my Pentax lenses on whatever I get, the 645Z makes the most sense for me.

And the price tag on that Roberts unit is pretty much what I think a used one should go for. So, is that the definition of 'nothing' we're discussing? Not that I have even that to spend right at the moment.

I have a Nikon D1H I paid $5k for when it was the newest thing. It's now worth all of $50 - and it still works as it should! That's my definition of 'nothing'. :P

Stan

[DonV]

Every system and camera has different compromises. If someone can be equally happy or happier still shooting with an EVF rather than OVF, then current mirrorless cameras with on sensor PDAF sensors are always going to offer more dependable auto-focus, and without the need for AF fine adjustment. Folks who prefer an OVF have to accept a trade-off due to separate PDAF sensors... Canon seems to have led the field with DSLR "dual pixel" AF, but mirrorless cameras with on-sensor PDAF - for those who can live with EVF - still perform better in this respect. Those who prefer shooting with an OVF - and, in this case, with Pentax gear - simply have to accept the level of AF accuracy on offer. It's gradually improving, but it will never match mirrorless levels - but that's OK for most of us here. We each shoot with that which does the job well enough for our needs and - importantly - makes us happiest

but it will never match mirrorless levels

Never is a very long time !
Never say never, never say always. JMHO.