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07-01-2022, 02:08 PM   #1
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Different colors in JPG and RAW (Custom Image option)

Hello!

I've noticed that if I change the custom image settings (like if I go to the portrait mode, then press the info button and change the colors) I noticed that this type of changes are not visible in the raw picture, so I'm not able to use my custom image settings in photoshop. Is there anyone who noticed this issue or who can solve this problem?

Thank you guys!

07-01-2022, 03:16 PM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zucca Quote
I noticed that this type of changes are not visible in the raw picture
Raw is just data, not an image format. When you open your raw file in a raw converter you start with a blank canvas
07-01-2022, 04:36 PM   #3
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Custom image settings do NOT necessarily apply to RAW
07-01-2022, 04:47 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Raw is just data, not an image format. When you open your raw file in a raw converter you start with a blank canvas
I understand that RAW is just a data set, but then why is this information not included in the data set? Also, what is the role of a color manipulation option in such an expensive device, if not to be part of the RAW?

07-01-2022, 04:49 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by bwgv001 Quote
Custom image settings do NOT necessarily apply to RAW
Is there any way to attach this informaton to the RAW file?
07-01-2022, 09:03 PM - 1 Like   #6
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Some RAW editors, like LightRoom, have some included preset profiles that attempt to mimic the camera's different jpg selections. You can also find/buy premade profiles for RAW editors. The RAW file is the starting point the in-camera jpeg is created from, but it doesn't have any of the jpeg processing information. What RAW software are you using? If you're using DCU, which comes with the camera, I'm pretty sure it has presets that match the camera's jpeg modes.


I would recommend you try shooting in RAW+ mode, so you get the RAW files and jpegs with whatever setting you choose. You can then start working with post processing and the RAW file and get a feel for what you can do. You may find you're fine with the camera developed jpeg most of the time, but there will be situations where you will want the control RAW gives you. Recovering dark areas or blown out highlights are common examples where having the RAW file can be very valuable.
07-01-2022, 09:55 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zucca Quote
I understand that RAW is just a data set, but then why is this information not included in the data set? Also, what is the role of a color manipulation option in such an expensive device, if not to be part of the RAW?
If I'm not mistaken, when you apply custom image settings in camera, you have to save them as a new jpeg to get the settings to "stick." The original RAW would be left as is, as the format suggests. It's the digital negative, so it's not supposed to be modified.

07-01-2022, 11:46 PM - 2 Likes   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
What RAW software are you using? If you're using DCU, which comes with the camera, I'm pretty sure it has presets that match the camera's jpeg modes.
Yes indeed - If you shoot Pentax and use Digital Camera Utility 5 you can apply the custom images to the RAW file in the program.
07-01-2022, 11:53 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zucca Quote
what is the role of a color manipulation option in such an expensive device, if not to be part of the RAW?
The colour/exposure options in the camera are used to produce a jpeg image file, not to alter the properties of the raw data.

What you can do in Photoshop ACR is to select camera profiles (camera matching), or indeed create your own profile. When you open a raw file in ACR your profile will be the default selected.
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07-02-2022, 02:43 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
Some RAW editors, like LightRoom, have some included preset profiles that attempt to mimic the camera's different jpg selections. You can also find/buy premade profiles for RAW editors. The RAW file is the starting point the in-camera jpeg is created from, but it doesn't have any of the jpeg processing information. What RAW software are you using? If you're using DCU, which comes with the camera, I'm pretty sure it has presets that match the camera's jpeg modes.


I would recommend you try shooting in RAW+ mode, so you get the RAW files and jpegs with whatever setting you choose. You can then start working with post processing and the RAW file and get a feel for what you can do. You may find you're fine with the camera developed jpeg most of the time, but there will be situations where you will want the control RAW gives you. Recovering dark areas or blown out highlights are common examples where having the RAW file can be very valuable.
Thank you for your answer! I will definitely try the RAW+ mode.

About the RAW software I use only Photoshop but I also tryed the LightRoom and Capture One. Unfortunately I don't have DCU. I have the CD with the camera but I have no CD reader, also I didn't find the software on the internet, only the updater. Is there any way to get DCU without the CD?

---------- Post added 07-02-22 at 02:48 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
The colour/exposure options in the camera are used to produce a jpeg image file, not to alter the properties of the raw data.

What you can do in Photoshop ACR is to select camera profiles (camera matching), or indeed create your own profile. When you open a raw file in ACR your profile will be the default selected.
The problem is I modify the color profile in my camera so I don't use it in default but in Photoshop you see only the defaults
07-02-2022, 03:32 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zucca Quote
The problem is I modify the color profile in my camera so I don't use it in default but in Photoshop you see only the defaults
Do you use the same modified Camera profile for most of your shots ?
07-02-2022, 03:45 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zucca Quote
Thank you for your answer! I will definitely try the RAW+ mode.
Raw+ output is just two separate files stored in memory card: one raw file and one jpeg file. You will have a jpeg file, but it won't make Photoshop render your raw file like Pentax custom image.

QuoteOriginally posted by Zucca Quote
Is there any way to attach this informaton to the RAW file?
No. The custom image styles of Pentax are proprietary, the details of the rendering model is not included in raw files.

QuoteOriginally posted by Zucca Quote
The problem is I modify the color profile in my camera so I don't use it in default but in Photoshop you see only the defaults
I had the same problem. To solve this problem, I shot a color chart with calibrated exposure (using spot meter on 18% grey), then I converted the chart image to jpeg using the camera. Comparing out of camera jpegs of each custom image, to the raw file converted with rawtherapee, I adjusted while balance, black level, white level, tone curve and HSV (Hue, Saturation, Value) for each hue of the color chart to match camera custom image with rawtherapee.
07-02-2022, 06:22 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zucca Quote
Unfortunately I don't have DCU. I have the CD with the camera but I have no CD reader, also I didn't find the software on the internet, only the updater. Is there any way to get DCU without the CD?
Pentax Digital Camera Utility - installation - PentaxForums.com
07-02-2022, 08:48 AM   #14
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It has been my understanding that when the 'z' creates a raw PEF file, it includes some jpegs for the purpose of providing thumbnail images. It has been my further understanding that when Darktable and Raw Therapee open such a PEF file, they use the color balance data that was used for the jpegs to render the file for initial display. I can't comment on other PP softwares, but if my understandings are correct, then they should be able to determine the same information as the low cost spreads.
07-02-2022, 08:56 AM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by kaseki Quote
It has been my understanding that when the 'z' creates a raw PEF file, it includes some jpegs for the purpose of providing thumbnail images. It has been my further understanding that when Darktable and Raw Therapee open such a PEF file, they use the color balance data that was used for the jpegs to render the file for initial display. I can't comment on other PP softwares, but if my understandings are correct, then they should be able to determine the same information as the low cost spreads.
I'm afraid your understanding is incorrect. Neither RT nor DT use the thumbnail to set any data for raw development. They do use it for instant display in the thumbnail overview but as soon as you open a raw for processing, it reverts to the flat basic settings. You can define your own preset styles to be applied as you open the raw file but that is it. Other than that, these two converters will behave like any other raw converter does with raw files - it is up to you to "be the jpeg engine".

There's a good thread on the pixls.us forum about how to achieve good starting points close to camera jpegs in Darktable: https://discuss.pixls.us/t/do-you-want-a-straight-out-of-camera-jpeg-style-i...5366/19?page=2

Last edited by newmikey; 07-02-2022 at 09:03 AM.
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