Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-03-2022, 01:26 AM   #16
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,652
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
So once you have a MF kit you wouldn't be using your flash equipment on the K1 anymore?
Guess there's logic in that I suppose it's the transition period I'm thinking off and the idea that the MF would not do all I want when at home. Flashing the Cactus units with Fuji firmware, if I went Fuji for all home "studio" stuff, would work, but as I said it's the transition period I'm considering. Yup, I know it's not that sensible, which is one reason I'm spinning.


Last edited by BarryE; 08-03-2022 at 01:40 AM.
08-03-2022, 01:44 AM   #17
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,177
QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Yup, I know that is not that's not sensible, which is one reason I'm spinning.
I went through the MF reasoning for myself. What's good about Pentax 645 is that the lenses are very affordable compared to other brands (avoiding lemon lenses because some are better than others), making Pentax 645 potentially a lot cheaper if the body is purchased at a good price. Then comes the problem of the upgrade path beyond Pentax 645; P 645 lenses can be used on MILC bodies with an adapter, but AF is lost along with aperture control is the lens doesn't have an aperture ring. So, if I was sure I won't need beyond 51Mp and I find a discounted 645z in good condition, I'd go for it. However the price of a 645z new is not encouraging at the moment, I wonder why 7/8 years old camera still sell for so much money. On the other hand , other MF systems don't offer long lenses (250mm at best). The day I'll decide I'll never do sport, wildlife and macro photography again, I'd be ready to go all out with MF and drop FF in favor of compact travel kit (MF for pro shooting , and a compact kit for travel).
08-03-2022, 02:15 AM   #18
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,652
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
I went through the MF reasoning for myself. What's good about Pentax 645 is that the lenses are very affordable compared to other brands (avoiding lemon lenses because some are better than others), making Pentax 645 potentially a lot cheaper if the body is purchased at a good price. Then comes the problem of the upgrade path beyond Pentax 645; P 645 lenses can be used on MILC bodies with an adapter, but AF is lost along with aperture control is the lens doesn't have an aperture ring. So, if I was sure I won't need beyond 51Mp and I find a discounted 645z in good condition, I'd go for it. However the price of a 645z new is not encouraging at the moment, I wonder why 7/8 years old camera still sell for so much money. On the other hand , other MF systems don't offer long lenses (250mm at best). The day I'll decide I'll never do sport, wildlife and macro photography again, I'd be ready to go all out with MF and drop FF in favor of compact travel kit (MF for pro shooting , and a compact kit for travel).
Similar reasoning with me too. If I moved to Fuji MF I would feel there's a MF future. It would be more expensive than the 645Z (used) options, but I would then have a lot of FF (and APCS) redundancy to offset the Fuji prices. I am entirely happy with Pentax ergonomics and to be honest staying with Pentax is strongly preferred, but there is this thought that if I chose to jump to MF I'd be building on an architecture that's reached a dead end. Eg, I've done a fair bit of real estate work and a tilt/shift would have been nice at times. Fuji have said there is one in development.
08-03-2022, 02:21 AM   #19
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Leura NSW
Posts: 491
I say as a reminder of the "giver" each time you use it, then do it. If the money is an extra above necessities then do it. If it goes pear shaped and you hate it then you can sell it on and find something else to remind you.

08-03-2022, 03:49 AM   #20
amateur dirt farmer
Loyal Site Supporter
pepperberry farm's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: probably out in a field somewhere...
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 41,257
QuoteOriginally posted by TDvN57 Quote
My suggestion is to rent a 645z for a week or two.

^^^ this ^^^

I did this very thing recently with a different camera system and discovered that the camera was not for me - saved myself a considerable sum of money....
08-03-2022, 04:13 AM   #21
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
TDvN57's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Berlin
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,137
QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Similar reasoning with me too. If I moved to Fuji MF I would feel there's a MF future. It would be more expensive than the 645Z (used) options, but I would then have a lot of FF (and APCS) redundancy to offset the Fuji prices. I am entirely happy with Pentax ergonomics and to be honest staying with Pentax is strongly preferred, but there is this thought that if I chose to jump to MF I'd be building on an architecture that's reached a dead end. Eg, I've done a fair bit of real estate work and a tilt/shift would have been nice at times. Fuji have said there is one in development.
Do you know what is the road ahead for Fuji MF? Or at least what is your expectation for their future MF?
08-03-2022, 04:45 AM - 1 Like   #22
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Central Florida
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,033
Simply a personal observation: I've only been around 2 Fuji MF users for any significant time. One was initially excited, promoted the heck out of it at a couple of shoots. After a couple of months he sold it and went back to his Sony FF. The Fuji ate up too many computer resources and added significant processing time for negligible benefit to him. The other may still have his, but I know at the last two events he's been using his Canon again, the Fuji left at home if he still has it.

I also know of one longtime Pentax 645Z user who made it to one of our shoots too, but I recall him commenting that it wasn't as convenient in the field so he didn't usually use it at model calls and outdoor portrait events. I remember his photos from that one looking very nice, but they didn't definitively stand out from others using FF and even APS-C cameras (me).

I don't think you'll see any benefit from MF for anything posting on a social site. Medium format seems more ideal for studio work and paid portraiture, or grand landscapes to be printed for resale. Definitely not a daily shooter IMO.

For the money, and if you've talked yourself into giving MF a go, I'd opt for a used Pentax 645Z and one or two lenses and see if the format is for you. You'd be unlikely to lose any money on it if you buy carefully, resell it for what you paid or within a few dollars of it. If you really REALLY like medium format, and after using that 645 for a bit can see reason to go with the Fuji instead then go for it. If not no real harm and no foul and you've saved yourself a boatload of money.

I totally understand the attraction. I've had to have a serious talk with myself about it more than once, and really came close to pulling the trigger a few times. But common-sense says I'm not going to see enough difference between my K1 and the 645Z to make the move worthwhile. Look for a few reviews where folks have gone back to full-frame and their reasons for doing so, along with comparisons of high pixel FF vs. MF images. They're not that different in most cases.


Last edited by gatorguy; 08-03-2022 at 04:53 AM.
08-03-2022, 05:08 AM   #23
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,892
The 645Z is a fantastic landscape camera - the 35mm f/3.5 is plenty sharp, and it's easily hauled around. I rarely use the K1. The B&H folks have a decent deal on the 645Z kit - worth a look. As an alternative, the 645D has great color, but it's slowness may frustrate you if you are expecting instant shot review. The Z is just superior in so many ways.
08-03-2022, 05:37 AM   #24
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Quebec City, Quebec
Posts: 6,493
QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Yes, but the K-1 is my landscape option
Surely, the K1 is an excellent camera for shooting landscapes. But I think the 645Z is really the archetype of what a "landscape camera" should be, particularly with an FA 35 mm, DFA 55 mm, FA 120 mm, FA 200 mm and FA* 300 mm prime lenses.










08-03-2022, 05:59 AM   #25
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,652
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by pepperberry farm Quote
^^^ this ^^^

I did this very thing recently with a different camera system and discovered that the camera was not for me - saved myself a considerable sum of money....
I have tried a 645Z, for a short time, but not with the lenses and also not being able to make direct comparisons. So I probably know enough about the camera, it's the trying to work out out the comparisons that I will struggle to achieve via a rent.

---------- Post added 08-03-22 at 02:07 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by TDvN57 Quote
Do you know what is the road ahead for Fuji MF? Or at least what is your expectation for their future MF?
Fair point. In my defence the difference is the apparent intent between the two companies for MF. I've been with Pentax and only Pentax since the 90s and intend to stay as I like there commitment to the DSLR. The problem for me is the MF commitment. I've plenty to think about ...
08-03-2022, 06:08 AM   #26
Pentaxian




Join Date: Feb 2015
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 12,177
QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
For the money, and if you've talked yourself into giving MF a go, I'd opt for a used Pentax 645Z and one or two lenses and see if the format is for you.
He already knows Pentax, he could be trying one of the new Fuji MF that are fairly close to a Pentax K1 for handling, a bit like you did with buying a D500 along with renting a K3 III for comparison

Last edited by biz-engineer; 08-03-2022 at 06:14 AM.
08-03-2022, 06:10 AM   #27
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,652
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by RICHARD L. Quote
Surely, the K1 is an excellent camera for shooting landscapes. But I think the 645Z is really the archetype of what a "landscape camera" should be, particularly with an FA 35 mm, DFA 55 mm, FA 120 mm, FA 200 mm and FA* 300 mm prime lenses.










One persons landscape is another's intimate landscape. Here in the UK we don't do the scale of Canada, mores the pity. So small landscapes and crowded woods is what I tend to do. The K-1 works very well fro crawling about in the undergrowth
08-03-2022, 06:14 AM - 1 Like   #28
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
TDvN57's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Berlin
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,137
My view is that the cropped 645 sensor is an "introduction" to MF. We will only see the real potential of digital MF with a full frame 645 or 6x7 sensor.

For me the future development path in a MF camera system has to move towards a full frame 645 sensor, or larger.

Adding more bells and whistles to the smaller sensors is not really adding image value anymore.

In other words these features are dressings on the salad. The larger sensor is the salad itself.

The Pentax 645 FA and 645 DFA lenses are compatible with a FF 645 sensor. The FF 645 sensor is existing technology.

The only missing component from Pentax is the willingness, or perhaps the market.

The missing future component for Fuji is also the lenses. Their current range of lenses are all crop 645. For them the development path is much steeper than for Pentax 645.

So coming back to the OP's question: yes I would buy the 645z. I would also buy only FA or DFA lenses and/or high end 6x7 lenses. If Pentax does not go for the larger 645 sensor then you still have a top of the line system. If they do go for the larger sensor.... Well then you are in the pound seats.
08-03-2022, 06:20 AM   #29
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 1,652
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by gatorguy Quote
Simply a personal observation: I've only been around 2 Fuji MF users for any significant time. One was initially excited, promoted the heck out of it at a couple of shoots. After a couple of months he sold it and went back to his Sony FF. The Fuji ate up too many computer resources and added significant processing time for negligible benefit to him. The other may still have his, but I know at the last two events he's been using his Canon again, the Fuji left at home if he still has it.

I also know of one longtime Pentax 645Z user who made it to one of our shoots too, but I recall him commenting that it wasn't as convenient in the field so he didn't usually use it at model calls and outdoor portrait events. I remember his photos from that one looking very nice, but they didn't definitively stand out from others using FF and even APS-C cameras (me).

I don't think you'll see any benefit from MF for anything posting on a social site. Medium format seems more ideal for studio work and paid portraiture, or grand landscapes to be printed for resale. Definitely not a daily shooter IMO.

For the money, and if you've talked yourself into giving MF a go, I'd opt for a used Pentax 645Z and one or two lenses and see if the format is for you. You'd be unlikely to lose any money on it if you buy carefully, resell it for what you paid or within a few dollars of it. If you really REALLY like medium format, and after using that 645 for a bit can see reason to go with the Fuji instead then go for it. If not no real harm and no foul and you've saved yourself a boatload of money.

I totally understand the attraction. I've had to have a serious talk with myself about it more than once, and really came close to pulling the trigger a few times. But common-sense says I'm not going to see enough difference between my K1 and the 645Z to make the move worthwhile. Look for a few reviews where folks have gone back to full-frame and their reasons for doing so, along with comparisons of high pixel FF vs. MF images. They're not that different in most cases.
We do like to stress ourselves with these internal discussions, don't we ? I too probably need to give myself a serious talking to. I agree the differences are probably not too great, especially in a controlled studio like environment, where I can control the lighting. And hey, if the highlights are too much and the shadows too deep it's my fault.

But, I would like a chance to try MF in more detail than a short (2 hour) experiment I once had. The buy used, try and if necessary sell is probably where I'll end up. I've been 100% with Pentax/GR for decades, so that's where my intentions lie.

I probably should aim to simplify my camera gear rather than adding to it. This is also a factor as I try and decide.

Thanks for your input there was a lot of sense in what you wrote ...
08-03-2022, 06:21 AM   #30
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Central Florida
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 6,033
QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
He already knows Pentax.
Actually he doesn't. Read his last post:
"I have tried a 645Z, for a short time, but not with the lenses and also not being able to make direct comparisons. So I probably know enough about the camera, it's the trying to work out out the comparisons that I will struggle to achieve via a rent."

My best advice would be to buy the cheaper 645Z kit if he's committed to trying medium format and see if he finds it improvement enough for his purposes over full-frame to warrant the investment. After using the camera for longer than a few day rental, preferably a few weeks at least and in different scenarios, he can see what he likes, where/when he'll want to use it or where/when he won't, and what needs improving or is lacking. When he then rents a Fuji MF, assuming of course he's still interested in medium-format, he would know what to look for to see if the Fuji fills in the gaps for him and makes the added cost worthwhile. But with only a few days to figure it out with a rental there's no way to properly answer all the questions if he's not already familiar with medium format.

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
... a bit like you did with buying a D500 along with renting a K3 III for comparison.
I haven't rented a K3III for comparison with the Nikon. You really should read more carefully rather than assuming. I paid for and own both cameras, and all the lenses I'm using with them.

I sometimes wonder how much of what you write is "mistake" or "you misunderstood me", and how much might be intentional pot-stirring or baiting. The latter two won't be well-received.
Since you had given the OP the same advice to buy a used 645Z a few posts earlier https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/48-pentax-medium-format/444920-should-i-...ml#post5604816 I'm learning to one of the latter intents.

Last edited by gatorguy; 08-03-2022 at 09:25 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
645d, 645z, body, cactus, camera, comments, f2.8, fa, fl, flash, fuji, k-1, kit, lens, lenses, lights, macro, medium format, pentax, pm, portrait, post, rent, sensor, system, week
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
To buy or not to buy the Pentax 28-105, or the question of walking-around with a K1 Bui Pentax DSLR Discussion 38 12-24-2020 06:28 AM
DA* 55? Should or should not? ledohung55 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 23 06-15-2012 02:10 PM
Should I buy this laptop to speed up my workflow or buy a new lens? crossover37 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 26 09-24-2010 09:41 AM
Should I be a good Pentax choirboy and buy a DA 15 Limited or buy the Sigma 10-20mm? tokyoso Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 42 03-14-2010 04:54 PM
Should I buy a FA77 or not? cooldude14es Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 30 03-23-2009 02:28 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:15 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top