[BarryE]

My view is that the cropped 645 sensor is an "introduction" to MF. We will only see the real potential of digital MF with a full frame 645 or 6x7 sensor.

For me the future development path in a MF camera system has to move towards a full frame 645 sensor, or larger.

Adding more bells and whistles to the smaller sensors is not really adding image value anymore.

In other words these features are dressings on the salad. The larger sensor is the salad itself.

The Pentax 645 FA and 645 DFA lenses are compatible with a FF 645 sensor. The FF 645 sensor is existing technology.

The only missing component from Pentax is the willingness, or perhaps the market.

The missing future component for Fuji is also the lenses. Their current range of lenses are all crop 645. For them the development path is much steeper than for Pentax 645.

So coming back to the OP's question: yes I would buy the 645z. I would also buy only FA or DFA lenses and/or high end 6x7 lenses. If Pentax does not go for the larger 645 sensor then you still have a top of the line system. If they do go for the larger sensor.... Well then you are in the pound seats.

Now that is a valid argument I hadn't really considered. Thank you Theuns.

[biz-engineer]

My view is that the cropped 645 sensor is an "introduction" to MF. We will only see the real potential of digital MF with a full frame 645 or 6x7 sensor.

Film formats had larger size gap between format. 6x7 would be a big step over FF.

So coming back to the OP's question: yes I would buy the 645z.

How about to wait and see if Ricoh release a 645 full format or 6x7 format, then buy such Pentax kit?

[TDvN57]

Film formats had larger size gap between format. 6x7 would be a big step over FF.


How about to wait and see if Ricoh release a 645 full format or 6x7 format, then buy such Pentax kit?

I am waiting for that, but who knows how long? It may never happen, in which case the 645z is still a top of the line system and the lenses I buy will fit both. As of this year I have two 645z's. I go hiking with it very often. Here in Berlin all the mountains are flat and a 20km hike is just a leisure walk, whereas in Hong Kong a 8km hike was a serious hike with easily 2000m accumulated elevation and hike time of easily 6 hours. Weight was much more of an issue and you had to ration your weight between water, energy foods and camera. Eventually I defaulted to the 645z with the FA 45-85mm lens or the DFA 50mm and sometimes I added the FA 200mm or FA 80-160mm as well. The combined weight for the 645z plus two light lenses was not much more than the Nikon D850 kit (my wife's kit). Since she bought the Nikon Z7ii with 24-70 lens I admit her hiking kit is much lighter, but then again my carrying capacity is twice hers, so in relative terms we carry the same weight in camera kit. :-)

I suppose it is a mind over matter issue and if you believe the pictures are worth the effort, then you will carry the gear to match your expectations. I think the previous generations had similar decisions to make between a 4x5 or a 8x10 cameras. I'm glad for the relatively light choices we have.

Regarding the 6x7 sensor, I know the market probably does not have an appetite for it, but if you extrapolate the 645z sensor to a 6x7 size you end up with +/- 150mpx. Not totally out of context as far as technology goes. Although I think that one will be long after my time is done here on this planet.

Now that is a valid argument I hadn't really considered. Thank you Theuns.

Hope you find a system you feel comfortable with.

[BarryE]

Those who use the 645Z, I use Lightroom tethering (via usb) extensively with K-1, does the 645Z tether as successfully to LR?

I've quickly skipped through the 645Z manual. No obvious surprises. Am I likely to come across any significant differences to the K-1 that I should be aware of that are not inherently different between the two formats? Buttons? Settings? Controls?

On the K-1 I change the AF points, when I'm not fully manual, to align with an eye in portraiture. On the K-1 the points are OK. Ideally it would be better if they were more towards the edges to work better with couples. Also, the extreme points don't seem to be quite as reliable as the centre point. Anyone, any views on the 645Zs AF point accuracy AND positioning? I suspect it will be much the same as the K-1 which is basically fine, but could be better.

Thank you.

[marco_gea]

Yes, but the K-1 is my landscape option. I wouldn't be lugging around a MF camera. Similarly I take a GR when I'm on holiday - I don't think my better half would agree to our baggage allowance being swallowed up with heavy camera equipment. Simplifying gear makes some sense - if only there was the perfect camera system

Maybe you're right and the MF isn't sensible. But this is not a sensible decision I'm considering now. I appreciate that ...

That makes sense to me.

I use two systems too:

MF (645Z + several lenses) for "serious" photography and photo-trips


and APS-C (KP and three cheap but surprisingly good lenses) for casual photowalks and general travel


---------- Post added 08-03-22 at 07:58 AM ----------

I went through the MF reasoning for myself. What's good about Pentax 645 is that the lenses are very affordable compared to other brands (avoiding lemon lenses because some are better than others), making Pentax 645 potentially a lot cheaper if the body is purchased at a good price. Then comes the problem of the upgrade path beyond Pentax 645; P 645 lenses can be used on MILC bodies with an adapter, but AF is lost along with aperture control is the lens doesn't have an aperture ring. So, if I was sure I won't need beyond 51Mp and I find a discounted 645z in good condition, I'd go for it. However the price of a 645z new is not encouraging at the moment, I wonder why 7/8 years old camera still sell for so much money. On the other hand , other MF systems don't offer long lenses (250mm at best). The day I'll decide I'll never do sport, wildlife and macro photography again, I'd be ready to go all out with MF and drop FF in favor of compact travel kit (MF for pro shooting , and a compact kit for travel).

New 645Z bodies are available at deeply discounted prices here in London (UK). I got mine for £ 3,000.

---------- Post added 08-03-22 at 08:01 AM ----------

Surely, the K1 is an excellent camera for shooting landscapes. But I think the 645Z is really the archetype of what a "landscape camera" should be, particularly with an FA 35 mm, DFA 55 mm, FA 120 mm, FA 200 mm and FA* 300 mm prime lenses.

Nice shots! All are a bit oversaturated, though, for my taste (if you don't mind a bit of constructive criticism). The nuance in the colours is lost, which is a shame given the richness of colour gradations that the medium format sensor allows.

---------- Post added 08-03-22 at 08:05 AM ----------

Those who use the 645Z, I use Lightroom tethering (via usb) extensively with K-1, does the 645Z tether as successfully to LR?

I've quickly skipped through the 645Z manual. No obvious surprises. Am I likely to come across any significant differences to the K-1 that I should be aware of that are not inherently different between the two formats? Buttons? Settings? Controls?

On the K-1 I change the AF points, when I'm not fully manual, to align with an eye in portraiture. On the K-1 the points are OK. Ideally it would be better if they were more towards the edges to work better with couples. Also, the extreme points don't seem to be quite as reliable as the centre point. Anyone, any views on the 645Zs AF point accuracy AND positioning? I suspect it will be much the same as the K-1 which is basically fine, but could be better.

Thank you.

Accuracy: good.
Positioning: all are clustered in the centre :-( The outermost two points can work in a pinch for portraits with some minor recomposing... but they are not cross-type points.

[texandrews]

Those who use the 645Z, I use Lightroom tethering (via usb) extensively with K-1, does the 645Z tether as successfully to LR?

Tethering is fine with the plug-in, same as with K1mkII. I found the Pentax tethering software and bought it but haven't used it yet as the plug in was doing what I needed it to do.

I've quickly skipped through the 645Z manual. No obvious surprises. Am I likely to come across any significant differences to the K-1 that I should be aware of that are not inherently different between the two formats? Buttons? Settings? Controls?

There are differences and similarities. The way I use my cameras the differences aren't a problem. I'm down with covid along with my wife now, so too low-E to run through them all...but with a body the size of the Z's I wouldn't want the buttons laid out as on the smaller bodied K1

On the K-1 I change the AF points, when I'm not fully manual, to align with an eye in portraiture. On the K-1 the points are OK. Ideally it would be better if they were more towards the edges to work better with couples. Also, the extreme points don't seem to be quite as reliable as the centre point. Anyone, any views on the 645Zs AF point accuracy AND positioning? I suspect it will be much the same as the K-1 which is basically fine, but could be better.

Thank you.

I use AF, of course, but typically don't move my points around. So I admit that when I have tried to I had usually forgotten and so I just used the center, which for me works fine. I would say, guessing, that the Z is probably not as good on this as the K1, but it's a guess. This to me would be one of the bigger upgrades for both cameras, touch screens that allow for moving the focus points around.

[BarryE]

Tethering is fine with the plug-in, same as with K1mkII. I found the Pentax tethering software and bought it but haven't used it yet as the plug in was doing what I needed it to do.

There are differences and similarities. The way I use my cameras the differences aren't a problem. I'm down with covid along with my wife now, so too low-E to run through them all...but with a body the size of the Z's I wouldn't want the buttons laid out as on the smaller bodied K1

I use AF, of course, but typically don't move my points around. So I admit that when I have tried to I had usually forgotten and so I just used the center, which for me works fine. I would say, guessing, that the Z is probably not as good on this as the K1, but it's a guess. This to me would be one of the bigger upgrades for both cameras, touch screens that allow for moving the focus points around.

Thanks William for your responses. Hope you and your wife recover swiftly.

For my manual shooting I'm feeling comfortable with the 645Z. I'm planning to take more portraits and the K-1/77 is an agile combination, but the AF could be more flexible. I suspect the 645Z might be worse for me. Adjusting the AF points and accurate eye focus is important to me. Maybe the 645Z, having a bigger viewfinder, would give me more manual portrait focussing? However, this is where the Fuji MF options would score in their eye/face detection.

I do keep going round in circles with this internal debate. If I was still doing paid jobs the equation would be different, but even then not conclusive. I wish Ricoh would make a clear statement about their MF direction...

[RICHARD L.]

All are a bit oversaturated, though, for my taste

Everyone is free to develop his own style. To impress my eyes, colors have to be saturated. I have only myself to please with the pictures I take. I just changed my in-camera color palette from "VIBRANT" (all these previously posted pictures) to "LANDSCAPE" (picture below). We'll see if I like the resulting images or not and I may revert to my old setting nevertheless.

(Sorry for the BIG lettering and BOLD type).

Regards

[BarryE]

Seems I procrastinated for too long. The offer on the 645Z has reverted from the offer price of £3000 to £4500. I'd identified a couple of used lenses, but without the body at a reduced price it's a non-starter. Yes, I could buy a used 645Z, but they are still expensive over here and the £3000 looked a good offer that was close to persuading me.

As a comparison the Fujifilm GFX 50S II has a standard price of £3500. I'll find a Fuji dealer to handle the camera and then perhaps rent one.

How can the GFX 50S II, released in September 2021, be priced at £3500 whereas the 645Z, released in 2014, be priced at £4500? Of course there are differences between the models, but this pricing really isn't that persuasive. I knew this, but I was still coming close to pressing the buy button at £3000. Now, if I bother with my MF dream, I will try the GFX 50S II first as I've spent enough time researching both cameras. I wonder if anyone buys new 645Z s now (in the UK) ...?

Moan off.

This weekend I will spend thrashing my K-1 in my shiny new "studio" ( = converted garage :-) ) and see if I can return to "normal" ...

[marco_gea]

[SIZE=3][B]Everyone is free to develop his own style. To impress my eyes, colors have to be saturated. I have only myself to please with the pictures I take.

Of course! I was only providing my personal point of view and opinion, that's all.
To me, saturation is like spice in food. In moderation, it enhances the flavour. Add too much, and it makes everything taste the same.

---------- Post added 08-04-22 at 11:11 PM ----------

Seems I procrastinated for too long. The offer on the 645Z has reverted from the offer price of £3000 to £4500. I'd identified a couple of used lenses, but without the body at a reduced price it's a non-starter. Yes, I could buy a used 645Z, but they are still expensive over here and the £3000 looked a good offer that was close to persuading me.

As a comparison the Fujifilm GFX 50S II has a standard price of £3500. I'll find a Fuji dealer to handle the camera and then perhaps rent one.

How can the GFX 50S II, released in September 2021, be priced at £3500 whereas the 645Z, released in 2014, be priced at £4500? Of course there are differences between the models, but this pricing really isn't that persuasive. I knew this, but I was still coming close to pressing the buy button at £3000. Now, if I bother with my MF dream, I will try the GFX 50S II first as I've spent enough time researching both cameras. I wonder if anyone buys new 645Z s now (in the UK) ...?

Moan off.

This weekend I will spend thrashing my K-1 in my shiny new "studio" ( = converted garage :-) ) and see if I can return to "normal" ...

Sorry to hear about the end of the offer price. It actually makes me SO HAPPY that I jumped on it while it was on. I even thought it might be a kind of "swan's song" before the 645Z was discontinued.

As to why it costs more than the Fuji... I guess part of the answer may be economies of scale, as the Fujis sell by larger numbers. But also, if you handle both, you'll quickly realise just how much more "premium" the Pentax body feels. It just feels like it was hewn out of a block of metal. All the buttons and dials... everything is just on another level. Not that there's anything wrong with the Fuji bodies, but the difference is there and it's palpable. I suppose the manufacturing costs must therefore also be higher.

[BarryE]

Of course! I was only providing my personal point of view and opinion, that's all.
To me, saturation is like spice in food. In moderation, it enhances the flavour. Add too much, and it makes everything taste the same.

---------- Post added 08-04-22 at 11:11 PM ----------



Sorry to hear about the end of the offer price. It actually makes me SO HAPPY that I jumped on it while it was on. I even thought it might be a kind of "swan's song" before the 645Z was discontinued.

As to why it costs more than the Fuji... I guess part of the answer may be economies of scale, as the Fujis sell by larger numbers. But also, if you handle both, you'll quickly realise just how much more "premium" the Pentax body feels. It just feels like it was hewn out of a block of metal. All the buttons and dials... everything is just on another level. Not that there's anything wrong with the Fuji bodies, but the difference is there and it's palpable. I suppose the manufacturing costs must therefore also be higher.

I'm sure you're correct, Marco, about the robustness & production costs. I've appreciated and benefitted from the Ricoh/Pentax build quality for decades.

[TDvN57]

Seems I procrastinated for too long. The offer on the 645Z has reverted from the offer price of £3000 to £4500. I'd identified a couple of used lenses, but without the body at a reduced price it's a non-starter. Yes, I could buy a used 645Z, but they are still expensive over here and the £3000 looked a good offer that was close to persuading me.

As a comparison the Fujifilm GFX 50S II has a standard price of £3500. I'll find a Fuji dealer to handle the camera and then perhaps rent one.

How can the GFX 50S II, released in September 2021, be priced at £3500 whereas the 645Z, released in 2014, be priced at £4500? Of course there are differences between the models, but this pricing really isn't that persuasive. I knew this, but I was still coming close to pressing the buy button at £3000. Now, if I bother with my MF dream, I will try the GFX 50S II first as I've spent enough time researching both cameras. I wonder if anyone buys new 645Z s now (in the UK) ...?

Moan off.

This weekend I will spend thrashing my K-1 in my shiny new "studio" ( = converted garage :-) ) and see if I can return to "normal" ...

What is the saying again? "Early bird catches the worm"? Sorry you missed out.

[RICHARD L.]

I got a 645Z "demo" (with 136 clicks on it) from Camera Canada in Ontario for 60 % of the normal retail price at the time and never looked back. I found the camera "intimidating" for a full year, learning to use it properly. After I mastered it, I realized it was just a "BIG K3", sharing most of the controls and menus with the APSc dslr and now I truly enjoy using it (mostly on tripod outside in full daylight). I also use a K1 and I just bought a new K3 III + HD DA 16-85 mm ED zoom. All my lenses (13 P67 lenses from a previous life, 20 P645 lenses and 30 DFA, DA, FA, F and A lenses) can be used interchangeably on various formats with the proper Pentax adapters. Pentax makes awesome stuff, from camera bodies and lenses down to bellows, extension tubes, teleconverters and adapters.

Pentax 67 II

Pentax 645Z


Pentax K1


Pentax K3 III

[BarryE]

What is the saying again? "Early bird catches the worm"? Sorry you missed out.

Thanks Theuns. I'd missed this offer just after I'd been criticising my wife for missing out on a deal to replace her ancient and dying phone by thinking too hard. She, of course, was too polite to comment on my foolishness

[Jonathan Mac]

My view is that the cropped 645 sensor is an "introduction" to MF. We will only see the real potential of digital MF with a full frame 645 or 6x7 sensor.

For me the future development path in a MF camera system has to move towards a full frame 645 sensor, or larger.

Adding more bells and whistles to the smaller sensors is not really adding image value anymore.

In other words these features are dressings on the salad. The larger sensor is the salad itself.

The Pentax 645 FA and 645 DFA lenses are compatible with a FF 645 sensor. The FF 645 sensor is existing technology.

The only missing component from Pentax is the willingness, or perhaps the market.

The missing future component for Fuji is also the lenses. Their current range of lenses are all crop 645. For them the development path is much steeper than for Pentax 645.

So coming back to the OP's question: yes I would buy the 645z. I would also buy only FA or DFA lenses and/or high end 6x7 lenses. If Pentax does not go for the larger 645 sensor then you still have a top of the line system. If they do go for the larger sensor.... Well then you are in the pound seats.

The price difference for producing a MF sensor compared to a FF one seems to be huge so the difference between FF and a full-sized 645 (or 6x7), save a leap in production technology, would be even greater. Given that the market for digital MF is already very small, a significant price increase, even with corresponding image quality benefits, would mean a very small market indeed. Very few would be able to afford it. I understand that the only cameras that currently use the full-sized 645 sensor cost in the tens of thousands, which doesn't sound like Pentax's target market at all.

In short, I think it's very unlikely to ever happen.