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08-02-2022, 01:06 PM   #1
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Should I buy a 645z or not?

Help please.

I've been so very tempted with the 645Z for years. It's an old beast, but it may still be worth trying it to experience MF and put to rest whether it is so much better than my K-1.

Planned (initial) usage for a 645Z:
1) Small home studio for still life, mainly.
2) Home studio for portraits

For 1) I use either the DFA 100mm or 50mm f2.8 macros.
For 2) I use, mainly the FA 77mm Limited and sometimes a 50/43mm.

I use the Cactus flash system and I've several flash units and transmitters.

To match my K-1 lens usage I'm thinking of FA 645 120mm F4 Macro Lens and FA 645 75mm F2.8 Lens as being the closest match for the three FF/35mm lenses I currently use.

When I shoot still life I only ever shoot in manual.
When I shoot portraits I, mostly, pick a single point focus point.

Because of my investment with Cactus which are all configured for Pentax and I'll want to use them with my K-1, I can't really move to Fuji.

So questions:
1) What is the 645Z like with focussing with a single point (NOT centre point) compared with the K-1? And how does the AF speed compare with the K-1/77?
2) How will the two 645 lenses I've identified compare with the three FF lenses mentioned?
3) Should I forget the 645Z and save for a Fuji system?

Any thoughts/comments welcome.

Many thanks.

08-02-2022, 02:03 PM - 3 Likes   #2
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My suggestion is to rent a 645z for a week or two. There are a couple of posts on this forum where people asked for suggested settings to get going on the 645z, use those suggestions and use the camera for a week or two.

Going to Fuji 50mpx will essentially give you the same "old beast" because they use the same sensor. The Fuji 100mpx is a different story.

Buying an expensive system on recommendations only seems like skating on thin ice in an unknown area.

Regarding flash systems, you may also consider switching to video lights, which will probably cost a fraction of what a strobe/flash system costs, with many added benefits.

Hope this helps.
08-02-2022, 02:29 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Help please.

I've been so very tempted with the 645Z for years. It's an old beast, but it may still be worth trying it to experience MF and put to rest whether it is so much better than my K-1.

Planned (initial) usage for a 645Z:
1) Small home studio for still life, mainly.
2) Home studio for portraits

For 1) I use either the DFA 100mm or 50mm f2.8 macros.
For 2) I use, mainly the FA 77mm Limited and sometimes a 50/43mm.

I use the Cactus flash system and I've several flash units and transmitters.

To match my K-1 lens usage I'm thinking of FA 645 120mm F4 Macro Lens and FA 645 75mm F2.8 Lens as being the closest match for the three FF/35mm lenses I currently use.

When I shoot still life I only ever shoot in manual.
When I shoot portraits I, mostly, pick a single point focus point.

Because of my investment with Cactus which are all configured for Pentax and I'll want to use them with my K-1, I can't really move to Fuji.

So questions:
1) What is the 645Z like with focussing with a single point (NOT centre point) compared with the K-1? And how does the AF speed compare with the K-1/77?

2) How will the two 645 lenses I've identified compare with the three FF lenses mentioned?

3) Should I forget the 645Z and save for a Fuji system?

Any thoughts/comments welcome.

Many thanks.
1) No idea how it compares to the K-1, but taken on its own, I find the AF of the 645Z (single point, not using the centre point as you specified) just fine for portraits, also specifically when using the FA120Macro (I suggest making use of the focus range limiter switch on the lens).
2) I have those two lenses and I would describe the FA120Macro as superb and the FA75 as very good. I don't have the "FF" K-mount lenses that you mention so I can't say anything in that regard.
3) I actually went the opposite way, from a Fuji GFX50R to the Pentax 645Z. Same sensor. But the Pentax gives me vastly improved ergonomics and is just so much more enjoyable to use (VERY subjective!!). On a more objective note, the 645Z's build quality is superior to the GFX's (but the latter is also absolutely fine).

Marco
08-02-2022, 02:30 PM   #4
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what do you feel is deficient in your K-1 photography that you would receive with a 645?

08-02-2022, 02:31 PM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by TDvN57 Quote
My suggestion is to rent a 645z for a week or two. There are a couple of posts on this forum where people asked for suggested settings to get going on the 645z, use those suggestions and use the camera for a week or two.

Going to Fuji 50mpx will essentially give you the same "old beast" because they use the same sensor. The Fuji 100mpx is a different story.

Buying an expensive system on recommendations only seems like skating on thin ice in an unknown area.

Regarding flash systems, you may also consider switching to video lights, which will probably cost a fraction of what a strobe/flash system costs, with many added benefits.

Hope this helps.
Thanks Theuns. The renting option would be great if I could get it to work in the UK. It's expensive to rent the 645Z, but then getting these two lenses rented too is nigh on impossible, sadly.

---------- Post added 08-02-22 at 10:35 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by FozzFoster Quote
what do you feel is deficient in your K-1 photography that you would receive with a 645?
I find that for still life in particular I end up cropping and this reduces the useful pixel count. 4x5 aspect ratio is often where abouts I end up.

I also would like to get a little more DR when I find I haven't got my lights as I want. The 645z would be more forgiving.

---------- Post added 08-02-22 at 10:39 PM ----------

Another question, please.

Googling I've found several comments about sensor cleaning being more problematic than, say, the K-1. I've cleaned my K-1 sensors occasionally with no problems (O-ICK1 and Visible Dust tools). Are there any particular issues with the larger 645Z sensor?

---------- Post added 08-02-22 at 10:44 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by marco_gea Quote
1) No idea how it compares to the K-1, but taken on its own, I find the AF of the 645Z (single point, not using the centre point as you specified) just fine for portraits, also specifically when using the FA120Macro (I suggest making use of the focus range limiter switch on the lens).
2) I have those two lenses and I would describe the FA120Macro as superb and the FA75 as very good. I don't have the "FF" K-mount lenses that you mention so I can't say anything in that regard.
3) I actually went the opposite way, from a Fuji GFX50R to the Pentax 645Z. Same sensor. But the Pentax gives me vastly improved ergonomics and is just so much more enjoyable to use (VERY subjective!!). On a more objective note, the 645Z's build quality is superior to the GFX's (but the latter is also absolutely fine).

Marco
Thanks Marco. I've seen a few go from Fuji to Pentax. I'm so accustomed with the Pentax ergonomics that staying with the brand feels sensible.

Thanks for the 120/75 comments. I knew it would be hard to pull out comparisons with the K lenses, but as I don't have any rental options comments here can help. These two lenses do seem to be well received for the price.


I've just realised that the 645Z does not have SR on many lenses. This is probably not an issue using 100% flash, unless I need to mix in ambient, I suppose. Made me think a little on how I have become to expect SR on my other cameras ...

Last edited by BarryE; 08-02-2022 at 02:47 PM.
08-02-2022, 03:17 PM - 2 Likes   #6
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645Z + A 120 mm f/4 MACRO: I use it for macrophotography (with the 645 Auto Bellows).











08-02-2022, 04:01 PM   #7
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Well, I'll add to the comments above with my experiences in my personal work with flash and professional work in museum settings. I've been using mine since it launched. It is still my go-to camera for most everything, with my K1mkII as its very able backup---but still the backup.


First I'd say that the best aspect of medium format digital is better tonalities out of the box in raw. I agree with Mark above about renting. You can shoot side by side with your K1, and if you don't see the differences then there's your answer.

Next I'd say that I think it's difficult to compare lenses here. For your macro the obvious answers are the FA or A 120, and/or the 90 which does have SR. All terrific lenses, but the 90 is not 1:1.

For portrait I think it's trickier. I would say the FA 150 would be an excellent choice, but also the LS 135 (if you can find one). The 75 is very good, but I personally find it a bit of an awkward FL with the Z, and prefer the 55 f2.8. Others love it.

The best person on these forums to answer the questions you have might be Digitalis.

08-02-2022, 09:55 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Because of my investment with Cactus which are all configured for Pentax and I'll want to use them with my K-1, I can't really move to Fuji.
Given how much money a new camera system costs and that's a 10 to 20 years long investment, the Cactus and configuration shouldn't play a role in the decision. ILC marketing use previously owned accessories or lenses to hold customer onto the same system / brand, but that leads people to make the wrong choices long term. I've thought about getting a 645z system myself, but given how overpriced it is (compared to the 100Mpixels version), it's a no no for me right now.
08-02-2022, 11:59 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by RICHARD L. Quote










Thanks Richard. This posting has reminded me to check the weight support figures for my current tripod head.

Nice close ups. I've not tended to bother too much with close ups, too little fiddling around with stacking to be honest. I stacked many times and for several reasons I've not been 100% happy with the results. Not a subject for this thread ...
08-03-2022, 12:06 AM - 1 Like   #10
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Short answer : Yes.
Long answer : Yes, if you have the €€€ for the lenses. The 25mm, 35mm, 45-85mm and 90mm & 120mm (this last one is cheap) are above anything made for FF or APSC.
The only drawback with the Z is the absence of Tilt-Shift for some rare architectural stuff.
Otherwise, no complaints. Have 2, one + 220.000 clicks and the other +100.000. (harsh weather outdoor shootings included) . No mechanical or electrical faults, no software or hardware errors. Never ever.
Go for it.
08-03-2022, 12:09 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Well, I'll add to the comments above with my experiences in my personal work with flash and professional work in museum settings. I've been using mine since it launched. It is still my go-to camera for most everything, with my K1mkII as its very able backup---but still the backup.


First I'd say that the best aspect of medium format digital is better tonalities out of the box in raw. I agree with Mark above about renting. You can shoot side by side with your K1, and if you don't see the differences then there's your answer.

Next I'd say that I think it's difficult to compare lenses here. For your macro the obvious answers are the FA or A 120, and/or the 90 which does have SR. All terrific lenses, but the 90 is not 1:1.

For portrait I think it's trickier. I would say the FA 150 would be an excellent choice, but also the LS 135 (if you can find one). The 75 is very good, but I personally find it a bit of an awkward FL with the Z, and prefer the 55 f2.8. Others love it.

The best person on these forums to answer the questions you have might be Digitalis.
Thank you. The 90 would ramp up the price too much, sadly. It's not really for macro, rather it's the FL and what I expect is a uniform sharpness across the plane, which is important to me for still life. Not so for portrait, of course, which is why the120 may not be so useful/ and comparable to the FA77. The physicality of the 645/120 is also something I'm considering as compared with the nimble K-1/77 combo for portraits (not using a tripod for these shots).

---------- Post added 08-03-22 at 08:11 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Given how much money a new camera system costs and that's a 10 to 20 years long investment, the Cactus and configuration shouldn't play a role in the decision. ILC marketing use previously owned accessories or lenses to hold customer onto the same system / brand, but that leads people to make the wrong choices long term. I've thought about getting a 645z system myself, but given how overpriced it is (compared to the 100Mpixels version), it's a no no for me right now.
You may be correct but I have many flash guns and spare triggers, so the cost is not insignificant. The advantage of the Cactus units, of course, is that I could convert them to support Fuji sometime later, but then I'd not easily be able to use them with the K-1 without re-programming them. Thus the thoughts to stay with 645z now.

---------- Post added 08-03-22 at 08:18 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by phat_bog Quote
Short answer : Yes.
Long answer : Yes, if you have the €€€ for the lenses. The 25mm, 35mm, 45-85mm and 90mm & 120mm (this last one is cheap) are above anything made for FF or APSC.
The only drawback with the Z is the absence of Tilt-Shift for some rare architectural stuff.
Otherwise, no complaints. Have 2, one + 220.000 clicks and the other +100.000. (harsh weather outdoor shootings included) . No mechanical or electrical faults, no software or hardware errors. Never ever.
Go for it.
The go for it is where where my heart is. My head is holding me back as I work through how it might be. I've come into a small inheritance and buying a much reduced 645Z & a couple of lenses would be a nice reminder of the deceased. It feels right, yet I'm still reluctant to press the buy button as the K-1 does nearly all I want. It's the chance to try a MF that's tempting me, again ...
08-03-2022, 12:19 AM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
The go for it is where where my heart is. My head is holding me back as I work through how it might be. I've come into a small inheritance and buying a much reduced 645Z & a couple of lenses would be a nice reminder of the deceased. It feels right, yet I'm still reluctant to press the buy button as the K-1 does nearly all I want. It's the chance to try a MF that's tempting me, again ...
The reason you buy medium format is to gain image quality and dynamic range over the K1. What's the point of keeping the K1 then?
When I buy a new system, I sell everything that I can use with the new system, and the money from the sale helps fund the new system. Usually after I buy the better/higher quality camera system, I don't use the old gear anymore, so if I didn't sell I'd end up with a lot of gear that gets rarely used. For me, it's better to have less quantity of gear, but have the right gear and use it extensively.
08-03-2022, 12:35 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Thank you. The 90 would ramp up the price too much, sadly. It's not really for macro, rather it's the FL and what I expect is a uniform sharpness across the plane, which is important to me for still life. Not so for portrait, of course, which is why the120 may not be so useful/ and comparable to the FA77. The physicality of the 645/120 is also something I'm considering as compared with the nimble K-1/77 combo for portraits (not using a tripod for these shots).

---------- Post added 08-03-22 at 08:11 AM ----------



You may be correct but I have many flash guns and spare triggers, so the cost is not insignificant. The advantage of the Cactus units, of course, is that I could convert them to support Fuji sometime later, but then I'd not easily be able to use them with the K-1 without re-programming them. Thus the thoughts to stay with 645z now.

---------- Post added 08-03-22 at 08:18 AM ----------



The go for it is where where my heart is. My head is holding me back as I work through how it might be. I've come into a small inheritance and buying a much reduced 645Z & a couple of lenses would be a nice reminder of the deceased. It feels right, yet I'm still reluctant to press the buy button as the K-1 does nearly all I want. It's the chance to try a MF that's tempting me, again ...
Then why not try the 645D first ? They come around 1.000 -1200 € in pro stores in France at least. The CCD sensor can have some advantages over the CMOS, depending on the photography you're planning for the 645 system. This way you can keep the K1 FF system and enjoy a cheaper 645D with two second hand lenses. The setup may cost you under 2.000€ with the 645 FA120mm macro included.
08-03-2022, 12:37 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
The reason you buy medium format is to gain image quality and dynamic range over the K1. What's the point of keeping the K1 then?
When I buy a new system, I sell everything that I can use with the new system, and the money from the sale helps fund the new system. Usually after I buy the better/higher quality camera system, I don't use the old gear anymore, so if I didn't sell I'd end up with a lot of gear that gets rarely used. For me, it's better to have less quantity of gear, but have the right gear and use it extensively.
Yes, but the K-1 is my landscape option. I wouldn't be lugging around a MF camera. Similarly I take a GR when I'm on holiday - I don't think my better half would agree to our baggage allowance being swallowed up with heavy camera equipment. Simplifying gear makes some sense - if only there was the perfect camera system

Maybe you're right and the MF isn't sensible. But this is not a sensible decision I'm considering now. I appreciate that ...

---------- Post added 08-03-22 at 08:38 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by phat_bog Quote
Then why not try the 645D first ? They come around 1.000 -1200 € in pro stores in France at least. The CCD sensor can have some advantages over the CMOS, depending on the photography you're planning for the 645 system. This way you can keep the K1 FF system and enjoy a cheaper 645D with two second hand lenses. The setup may cost you under 2.000€ with the 645 FA120mm macro included.
That's worth considering. Thank you.

PS I took a look at your website/Instagram feed, Bogdan. You've built up a wide and impressive body of work. I'll take some more time to look deeper ...

Last edited by BarryE; 08-03-2022 at 12:55 AM.
08-03-2022, 12:43 AM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Yes, but the K-1 is my landscape option. I wouldn't be lugging around a MF camera.
So once you have a MF kit you wouldn't be using your flash equipment on the K1 anymore?
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