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01-26-2010, 10:00 PM   #31
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Well, there goes the affordable price tag.




QuoteOriginally posted by ARCASIA Quote
Hi Gary,

I agree that “studios with light's”, and “landscapes with tripods aren't usually areas where high ISO is needed”. And I think that these are applications for which MF film is particularly well suited, in large part, on account of the resolution that this medium already offers, together with the minimal demands placed upon film sensitivity. But if comparable resolution, along with a more efficient work flow and instant review, are largely what MF digital has to offer, I am not that interested and would rather stay with film.

The possibility, however, of medium format photography at high ISO, opens up new worlds of photography that have, in large part, remained outside of the domain of MF film. Imagine a MF digital camera that could produce acceptable image quality at ISO 3200: a photo taken at a shutter speed of 1/500 sec would be comparable to that obtained with ISO 100 film at 1/15 sec, assuming constant aperture. Sports, wildlife and low light photography, to name a few, become viable; and reliance on the tripod is lessened. For me, it is precisely the ability obtain photos at high ISO that makes MF digital interesting; otherwise, it remains merely an expensive curiosity.


Best, Alan


01-28-2010, 08:29 AM   #32
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Sports and wildlife, not so much

Regardless of what ISO the new digital sensor may be capable of achieving, all MF SLR cameras have a decided disadvantage for sports and wildlife over 35mm and APS-C format bodies. Because the mirror is so large, it is necessary to move it relatively slowly and to brake it softly so that it does not ring the whole camera like a bell and induce sharpness-killing vibration. Pentax to their great credit has done this admirably on the 645, 645N and 645NII series bodies, but they've achieved it only by keeping the shutter lag in the 1/4 second range.

Decisive moment/ peak-of-action is not the forte of a camera with this kind of lag. I love my 645N-- just not for this.

This realization doubtless accounts for why there are typically at any given moment numerous long teles for the 645 going begging on eBay despite their great rarity and exquisiteness.

It's fundamental physics that the 645D cannot overcome with software and circuits. Live View might have a chance of reducing it with Mirror Up someday, but this camera seems destined to have a CCD and not CMOS sensor requisite for that feature.
01-28-2010, 09:10 AM   #33
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Hi Ivan...Oh it's not so bad...The first two shot below of sprinting were taken with a 645NII and FA 80-160 lens; the last shot with a 67II and 300 M* lens. All hand held. I think they might exemplify "decisive moment/ peak-of-action " for these events. Sure wish I had High ISO!

Best, Alan




QuoteOriginally posted by Ivan J. Eberle Quote
Regardless of what ISO the new digital sensor may be capable of achieving, all MF SLR cameras have a decided disadvantage for sports and wildlife over 35mm and APS-C format bodies. Because the mirror is so large, it is necessary to move it relatively slowly and to brake it softly so that it does not ring the whole camera like a bell and induce sharpness-killing vibration. Pentax to their great credit has done this admirably on the 645, 645N and 645NII series bodies, but they've achieved it only by keeping the shutter lag in the 1/4 second range.

Decisive moment/ peak-of-action is not the forte of a camera with this kind of lag. I love my 645N-- just not for this.

This realization doubtless accounts for why there are typically at any given moment numerous long teles for the 645 going begging on eBay despite their great rarity and exquisiteness.

It's fundamental physics that the 645D cannot overcome with software and circuits. Live View might have a chance of reducing it with Mirror Up someday, but this camera seems destined to have a CCD and not CMOS sensor requisite for that feature.
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Last edited by ARCASIA; 01-28-2010 at 09:47 AM.
01-28-2010, 08:08 PM   #34
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Nice work Alan. Action with 645NII and 67II!

I am hoping that Pentax continues with its strategy of trying not to compete directly with the bigger manufacturers. It is not trying to emulate Canon and Nikon offering in APS-C/Full Frame/35mm formats with lenses or cameras. It is offering something a little different. That is the approach I hope they continue with the 645D. Pentax 645 has a large following in Asia and I am assuming most of those are not working pros shooting studio work, with strobes and who require clean, low ISO abilities. I am guessing that their target audience for the 645D are enthusiastic amateurs with some pros mixed in. The enthusiasts shoot outdoors, indoors, available light etc. So the target audience is not the same one that is looking at the Leica S2, Hasselblad H series, Phase One/Mamiya - just something a little different. Different enough to warrant a 645D.

Yuri

QuoteOriginally posted by ARCASIA Quote
Hi Ivan...Oh it's not so bad...The first two shot below of sprinting were taken with a 645NII and FA 80-160 lens; the last shot with a 67II and 300 M* lens. All hand held. I think they might exemplify "decisive moment/ peak-of-action " for these events. Sure wish I had High ISO!

Best, Alan


01-29-2010, 07:19 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ivan J. Eberle Quote
Decisive moment/ peak-of-action is not the forte of a camera with this kind of lag. I love my 645N-- just not for this.
You just have to learn to anticipate the moment and trigger the shutter accordingly. This was how those great Life sports photo from pre 1970's was done before motor drive. They were shot using Rollies and before that Speed Graphic.

I switch over to the 645 from ELM for my 120 shooting due to the speed of handling handheld in fashion shooting environment.
01-29-2010, 10:39 AM   #36
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A new photo has popped up on the web at the New Egg site selling the K-7.
Take a look at the second shot and its not a K-7

Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more!

Hmmm.
01-29-2010, 01:34 PM   #37
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Rolleis TLRs and Speed Graphics...

... were well-suited for peak-of-action precisely because they had no mirror, and no mirror lag.
Not suggesting that a MF SLR user can't try to anticipate the action 1/4 of a second (250 ms) ahead of the dunk, but it's not a very professionally competitive way to work alongside others whose APS-C or FF mm DSLRs cameras have a 42 ms delay and 10 fps sequences.
I do photography for a living. I've got the 645N. I also own several pro 35mm SLRs/DSLRs (including, incidentally, an LX/Motordrive LX set) that I'd happily choose instead for action work in most every instance over the 645N. Resolution only gets you so far if you don't get the shot.
01-29-2010, 08:28 PM   #38
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Good catch. 645D ready for sale at newegg? hehe...

QuoteOriginally posted by wkkato Quote
A new photo has popped up on the web at the New Egg site selling the K-7.
Take a look at the second shot and its not a K-7

Newegg.com - Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more!

Hmmm.


02-16-2010, 12:58 PM   #39
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Interesting that the discussion of MF digital and small format digital share the same commonalities of the past with MF and small format film cameras. Each did something better than the other. And today, it sounds like, people are expecting the MF digital to have all the features the of smaller versions whether if it can be done technically or not.

I say just be patient and wait for video cameras that can shoot 60fps at 30Mpix and just frame-grab your perfect agony of defeat shot. Everyone then can just buy their 1337 camera skills.
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