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05-16-2011, 08:08 AM   #1786
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QuoteOriginally posted by goddo31 Quote

But here is something I find infinitely more interesting...

Sopwith Camel
Pentax 67, 55/4, Ektar 100
What a monster-thick prop on that plane. Apparently, it had to withstand being hit by those machine guns. Must of really sucked the much needed horsepower out of the engine.

05-16-2011, 08:24 AM   #1787
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
What a monster-thick prop on that plane. Apparently, it had to withstand being hit by those machine guns. Must of really sucked the much needed horsepower out of the engine.
tuco, I don't mean to be disrespectful - but are you sure?
From my understanding, this plane (and most others of the late WWI period) had interrupter gears on the machine guns, so that the bullets would never hit the propeller. I believe it was a special cam connected to the mechanics of the engine, that stopped firing of the guns when the bullets would hit the prop.
Saying that, I'm no historian.
I have been told that there was someone (might have been a Frenchman) who 'pioneered' a forward firing machine gun, prior to the interrupter gear being invented. He simply armoured the propeller! Apparently it worked well until the prop or engine broke down mid-flight and he was captured.
05-16-2011, 09:07 AM   #1788
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QuoteOriginally posted by goddo31 Quote
tuco, I don't mean to be disrespectful - but are you sure?
From my understanding, this plane (and most others of the late WWI period) had interrupter gears on the machine guns, so that the bullets would never hit the propeller. I believe it was a special cam connected to the mechanics of the engine, that stopped firing of the guns when the bullets would hit the prop.
Saying that, I'm no historian.
I have been told that there was someone (might have been a Frenchman) who 'pioneered' a forward firing machine gun, prior to the interrupter gear being invented. He simply armoured the propeller! Apparently it worked well until the prop or engine broke down mid-flight and he was captured.
The Sopwith 1 Strutter was the first British WWI plane to use synchronization. The Germans used it first. But there was a period where the British just used brute force and fired through the prop without synchronization according to a History Channel show I saw once.

Last edited by tuco; 05-16-2011 at 09:25 AM.
05-16-2011, 10:08 AM   #1789
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
The Sopwith 1 Strutter was the first British WWI plane to use synchronization. The Germans used it first. But there was a period where the British just used brute force and fired through the prop without synchronization according to a History Channel show I saw once.
That sounds like a myth. How on earth would a wooden prop take that? It would probably just explode of one single bullet. Think about the radial force on the blades just from the rotation, combine it with the thrust, and that prop doesn't seem very thick any more.

05-16-2011, 10:29 AM   #1790
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QuoteOriginally posted by Makten Quote
That sounds like a myth. How on earth would a wooden prop take that? It would probably just explode of one single bullet. Think about the radial force on the blades just from the rotation, combine it with the thrust, and that prop doesn't seem very thick any more.
They were beefy and reinforced props. It wasn't a successful solution.
"
...
The standard French light machine gun, the Hotchkiss, was also most unamenable to synchronization due to rounds "hanging fire" – the Morane-Saulnier company designed a "safety backup" in the form of "deflector blades" (metal wedges) fitted to the propeller at the point where they would be struck by a bullet. Roland Garros trialled this system in a Morane-Saulnier L in April 1915. He managed to score several kills, although it proved to be an inadequate and dangerous solution. Garros eventually was forced by engine failure (possibly caused by the repeated strain on his aircraft's crankshaft of the "deflected" bullets striking his propeller) to land behind enemy lines, and he, and his aircraft, were captured by the Germans.
...
"
05-16-2011, 12:24 PM   #1791
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That is absolutely correct. You will also notice that some of the earlier fighter planes had their engines at the back of the cockpit so that both pilot and machine gun had a free field of view and were very successful for a short period of time. When they moved from that design the machine gun was situated on the top of the wing in order to shoot outside of the propeller range. Finally with synchronisation and more powerful engines, it allowed to have two machine guns firing through the propeller.
The slingshot and revolver stayed as a backup
My grand-father used to be an airplane buff...


Cheers,

Luc
05-16-2011, 03:08 PM   #1792
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
They were beefy and reinforced props. It wasn't a successful solution.
"
...
The standard French light machine gun, the Hotchkiss, was also most unamenable to synchronization due to rounds "hanging fire" the Morane-Saulnier company designed a "safety backup" in the form of "deflector blades" (metal wedges) fitted to the propeller at the point where they would be struck by a bullet. Roland Garros trialled this system in a Morane-Saulnier L in April 1915. He managed to score several kills, although it proved to be an inadequate and dangerous solution. Garros eventually was forced by engine failure (possibly caused by the repeated strain on his aircraft's crankshaft of the "deflected" bullets striking his propeller) to land behind enemy lines, and he, and his aircraft, were captured by the Germans.
...
"
Well, then it obviously wasn't meant that you should shoot at the prop, even if it happened some times.
05-17-2011, 02:34 AM   #1793
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QuoteOriginally posted by goddo31 Quote
But here is something I find infinitely more interesting...
Wow ! The wood of this propeller is a beauty !


645N • Jupiter 36B 3.5/250mm with Hoya close up • Agfachrome RSXII 200


645N • Jupiter 36B 3.5/250mm with Hoya close up • Agfachrome RSXII 200


05-17-2011, 07:58 AM   #1794
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QuoteOriginally posted by fs999 Quote

645N Jupiter 36B 3.5/250mm with Hoya close up Agfachrome RSXII 200


645N Jupiter 36B 3.5/250mm with Hoya close up Agfachrome RSXII 200
#1 has a nice texture to it. Really nice.
05-17-2011, 01:21 PM   #1795
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A bit of Ilford FP4+ perhaps?

















#1, #2 and #4 is with the 75/4.5 (on P67II) and #3 is with the 104/2.4.
05-17-2011, 04:14 PM   #1796
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QuoteOriginally posted by Makten Quote
A bit of Ilford FP4+ perhaps?








#1, #2 and #4 is with the 75/4.5 (on P67II) and #3 is with the 104/2.4.
2,3 and 4 work for me

I am growing fond on my 90/2.8. It is not supposed a great lens but I get really good result for my taste with it.

cheers,

Luc
05-18-2011, 05:06 AM   #1797
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Thank you Tuco !

Nice wheels Martin !
05-18-2011, 07:20 AM   #1798
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QuoteOriginally posted by lbenac Quote
2,3 and 4 work for me

I am growing fond on my 90/2.8. It is not supposed a great lens but I get really good result for my taste with it.
Thanks! I'm thinking of selling the 90, but only because it's too close to 75 and 105. Also, it seems optimized for closeups and the bokeh can get really nasty at larger distances (if you don't stop it down a bit), which is what I want the short DOF for. There's more vignetting and curvature of field at f/2.8 than with the 105 at f/2.4 too, so the only reason for choosing it for me, is if I want just a little bit more coverage.

But yes, it's a nice lens and the "small" size makes it great for walkarounds, if you even consider that with such a camera (I do!). I'd really want to switch the 75/4.5 and 90/2.8 for a 75/2.8, but they are very uncommon and expensive over here.


QuoteOriginally posted by fs999 Quote
Nice wheels Martin !
Thanks!
05-18-2011, 08:03 AM   #1799
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Original Poster



Minolta Autocord HP5+
05-18-2011, 08:44 AM   #1800
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QuoteOriginally posted by Makten Quote
...

But yes, it's a nice lens and the "small" size makes it great for walkarounds, if you even consider that with such a camera (I do!). I'd really want to switch the 75/4.5 and 90/2.8 for a 75/2.8, but they are very uncommon and expensive over here.

Thanks!
Every bit of weight makes a difference when you're walking around for a while! Weight was a factor in my purchasing of the WLF (folding focus hood), it makes the camera smaller and easier to cart around. That big prism weighs a lot.

Love the tones with the Ilford. That film is a favourite of mine, however I can seldom get tones as nice as that
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