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08-11-2011, 04:57 PM   #2461
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QuoteOriginally posted by Makten Quote
Have you tried to open them in separate tabs? If it still isn't much difference, I'm afraid I must begin to question your eyesight! Still no offense meant of course, but I think most people would value the difference as very evident.

This I did and noticed the difference. And don't worry I'm pretty difficult to offend!

08-11-2011, 05:05 PM   #2462
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
This I did and noticed the difference. And don't worry I'm pretty difficult to offend!
That's good to hear, friend! I'm only trying to help, but I know that I sometimes use a harsh tone, so that's why I'm excusing my parlance.

Anyway, just ask if you want to know more about this. Getting good sharpness at small sizes is an interesting subject with many solutions.
08-11-2011, 05:07 PM   #2463
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QuoteOriginally posted by Makten Quote
That's good to hear, friend! I'm only trying to help, but I know that I sometimes use a harsh tone, so that's why I'm excusing my parlance.
What I don't want to do is to over sharpen and end up with nasty artifacts in the image....
08-11-2011, 05:14 PM   #2464
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
What I don't want to do is to over sharpen and end up with nasty artifacts in the image....
Well, at least you then have to try when artefacts show up, right? What I'm saying is that your images are severely undersharpened, all of them. And that's a pity because they could look very much better with only a few touches of dials in the workflow. I mean, you don't want your $10k camera to look like a cellphone camera, just because you post the images on the web, right?

08-11-2011, 06:31 PM   #2465
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QuoteOriginally posted by Makten Quote
Well, at least you then have to try when artefacts show up, right? What I'm saying is that your images are severely undersharpened, all of them. And that's a pity because they could look very much better with only a few touches of dials in the workflow. I mean, you don't want your $10k camera to look like a cellphone camera, just because you post the images on the web, right?
do they really look that bad?
08-11-2011, 07:22 PM   #2466
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Is this better? This time I took the image into CS5 and resized there using bicubic then reimported into LR3 and sharpened again and added some fill light. The second, I used bicubic sharper. There is a little more fill light in the second image
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Last edited by itshimitis; 08-11-2011 at 07:43 PM.
08-11-2011, 07:41 PM   #2467
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I'm not sure if this has changed lately, but I have noticed before that adding images as an attachment to a post here on PF usually downgrades the image sharpness. As opposed to linking from an external hosting site.

I like that shot you just posted, itshimitis. But I think it might be one that's hard to judge sharpness on. But it seems fine to me.

QuoteOriginally posted by Makten Quote
Getting good sharpness at small sizes is an interesting subject with many solutions.
Yeah, I think you're right there But you seem to do a good job at it.

p.s. You guys both need to get some sleep!
08-11-2011, 07:55 PM   #2468
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QuoteOriginally posted by goddo31 Quote
I'm not sure if this has changed lately, but I have noticed before that adding images as an attachment to a post here on PF usually downgrades the image sharpness. As opposed to linking from an external hosting site.

I like that shot you just posted, itshimitis. But I think it might be one that's hard to judge sharpness on. But it seems fine to me.



Yeah, I think you're right there But you seem to do a good job at it.

p.s. You guys both need to get some sleep!
True! I tend not to pixel peep above 100%, and I think it's a little more difficult to tell when the main detailed area of the image is quite far back in the frame. The mountain on the left is called Helm Crag but often known as the lion and the lamb as from some angles that's what it looks like. It's a mile or two away from where I was standing and the far shore of the lake is about 400m (1/4 mile) in a straight line. I'm eager to learn as I've really only just started using CS5 even though I've had it a while. Photoshop has always scared me in the past and am only just starting to use it...

08-11-2011, 08:16 PM   #2469
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To put my comments in context, I didn't read the discussion on the previous page until now.
Those 2 images do look a lot sharper than the previous ones
Looks like a lovely view.
Another trick to check your sharpening on these sorts of shots is to have a close look at the edges where the mountains hit the sky. If the edge looks too jagged or has a noticeable halo, then it's time to scale back the sharpening slightly. In the last shots it looks like this effect is just starting, but it's still acceptable for me in this size.

Effective re-sampling and sharpening techniques can be quite separate to actual photography skills, so don't worry about it
I usually have something to learn from these conversations too.
08-11-2011, 08:30 PM   #2470
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Last image then it's bedtime! this image caught my eye when I converted to black and white. It's a 2 minute exposure, and these stepping stones are normally above the water...
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08-11-2011, 09:27 PM   #2471
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
Is this better? This time I took the image into CS5 and resized there using bicubic then reimported into LR3 and sharpened again and added some fill light. The second, I used bicubic sharper. There is a little more fill light in the second image
Looks much better. But you can do all that in LR3 without going to CS5. Sharpen in LR3 with the sharpen tool or select one of its preset options for narrow edge (scenic) or wide edge (portrait) and you can control the automatic mask to some degree using the masking slider while holding down the option key (Mac). With it you can control what gets sharpen. White areas get sharpen and black areas do not. Good for not wanting to apply much to the sky when its a scan of film or even digital.

Then export checking JPEG with 100% quality for file settings, resize to fit long edge of, say, 1024px for image sizing and check sharpen for screen with amount either high or normal.

LR3 will then apply all your processing and sharpening in the correct order. Your image will be ready for web display. You'll be hard-pressed to be able to sharpen better in CS5 without a lot of expertise, time learning it or aided by a sharpening plugin.
08-12-2011, 01:04 AM   #2472
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Looks much better. But you can do all that in LR3 without going to CS5. Sharpen in LR3 with the sharpen tool or select one of its preset options for narrow edge (scenic) or wide edge (portrait) and you can control the automatic mask to some degree using the masking slider while holding down the option key (Mac). With it you can control what gets sharpen. White areas get sharpen and black areas do not. Good for not wanting to apply much to the sky when its a scan of film or even digital.

Then export checking JPEG with 100% quality for file settings, resize to fit long edge of, say, 1024px for image sizing and check sharpen for screen with amount either high or normal.

LR3 will then apply all your processing and sharpening in the correct order. Your image will be ready for web display. You'll be hard-pressed to be able to sharpen better in CS5 without a lot of expertise, time learning it or aided by a sharpening plugin.
Thanks to everyone, it's an education! Am really enjoying my photography with the 645D, genuinely excited by it so would be a pity to let down my images at the last hurdle.

Thanks again!
08-12-2011, 06:07 AM   #2473
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First off, the Bessa III continues to astound. Over in Film SLR there's a RF thread - in my opinion, though the Leica/Ikon argument has merit, going with a modern (and I consider anything from the 1950's to today 'modern') rf folder is the way to go.

Sharpening - our scanners need help! I've settled on a frequency/radus/% approach - by frequency I mean the, what is that third slider called, the thing that says how many pixels to look at for the sharpening effect? Threshold! yes- the larger the Threshold value the 'lower' the frequency of sharpening.

I start out with the controls set (usually) to .2 at a threshold of ~15-20 and 180% as this is my normal 'finishing touch'... but the setting is useful in determining the first low frequency sharpen step. I slide the radius up, depending on negative, to 3-7 pixels - with the other two settings as is, a lot of artifacts show up. I then move threshold up until the edge artifacts start to disappear - usually this is 40-60 or more pixels. Finally I slide the % down to ~60%, looking at both the close up window and the overall pic. Doing this helps with local contrast.

Next I do a similar step but with ~1 pixel radius, usually with a somewhat lower threshold and higher %. Again, I'm looking at edge artifacts. And the finishing touch is the .2/16 threshold/ 180+% sharpening.

I do this with a full size scan, in 120 usually this is at 1200 DPI, with 35mm it's 2400. After saving this, I resize, for flickr to where the long dimension is at least 1300 pixels. This is so that flickr creates the 'large' 1024 size image I'll post here.

A result of this process, New Portra 160 in a Bessa I Vaskar from the '50s:


08-12-2011, 06:08 AM   #2474
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Fantastic shots Nesster, Luc, Martin and all others !
08-12-2011, 10:37 AM   #2475
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