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05-21-2012, 08:24 AM   #3271
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QuoteOriginally posted by phonoline Quote
grand, tuco, grand!
So, those Hoya ND filters are quite good, eh? NDX400 + NDX8 + O2 Orange Filters - what system do you use to hold all these filters?
Thanks. They are screw-on filters. I can't say how good they are since they are the only ones I've used. I have a B60 to 67mm threaded adapter for my Zeiss lenses. Plus I have the older Pentax colored filters that are bayonet mount in 67mm and they happen to fit Zeiss B60 lenses without an adapter and the Zeiss bayonet lens hood still fits over it, sweet deal. So when I stack like that I just mounted the Pentax O2 filter first.

The shot was an experiment in long exposure into the sun. I normally don't stack filters that much.


Last edited by tuco; 05-21-2012 at 08:35 AM.
05-21-2012, 11:44 PM   #3272
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Well, I think it was a very succesful experiment!

Can I ask you, how did you meter that scene? I noticed that you use Pentax spotmeter, do you meter the scene through all those filters? Did you try different exposure times, or did you get it right on one shot?
05-22-2012, 07:51 AM   #3273
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QuoteOriginally posted by _quicksilver_ Quote
Can I ask you, how did you meter that scene? I noticed that you use Pentax spotmeter, do you meter the scene through all those filters?
I employ the zone system of metering. I compose, focus and then put those filters on. There is no need to meter through those filters. Both the Pentax Spotmeter V and "Digital" Spotmeter give readings in EV and have an analog EV to shutter/aperture scale on them which makes using the zone system of metering really easy (way better than a LCD only readout spot meter, IMHO) and easy to account for filters as well. You simply add up the stops of the filter stack and turn the dial counting them out and get a new reading without doing any math in your head.

So basically I meter the scene looking at brightest and darkest areas, decide what I will call the middle gray exposure (zone V) and then start turning the dial the number of stops for the filter(s). Metering this way adds another element to your pictures much like composition is, I feel.

QuoteOriginally posted by _quicksilver_ Quote
Did you try different exposure times, or did you get it right on one shot?
I only took that one shot. The roll was developed normally because of the other shots on it so I didn't employ any highlight compression techniques. In retrospect, I should have put a roll in another film back I had with me and devoted it to more of these sun shots. But like I said I was just testing it out. Now I have plans to try that next time I go and compress the highlights with this "Minus-X" development technique I've since been working on using PMK Pyro.

After you acquire some experience with a one-degree spot meter, it is really reliable and there is hardly any guess work. You know in advance of taking the picture what it will pretty much look like and there are not very many surprises or errors. I call it the film version of a digital camera's histogram except it's not a unit less graph. It tells you more.

You really don't know to 1/3 or even 2/3rds of a stop where you will lose detail in shadow areas without getting really scientific (densitometer work to analyze the negatives). And the same goes for highlights but for me that would be a point of diminishing return to go through that much effort.

Last edited by tuco; 05-22-2012 at 08:04 AM.
05-22-2012, 08:39 AM   #3274
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Thank you very much for describing the technique, Tuco.

I have seen some pentax spotmeters, but they seem quite pricey. But propably it will be a good investment.

Im quite new with all this MF film stuff, but very keen to learn all the techniques. Zone metering sounds like a technique that I should read more about, its all very interesting!

05-23-2012, 08:57 AM   #3275
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If you don't have a meter, I would not recommend a spot meter as your first. I would suggest a good incident/reflected light meter by Gossen, Sekonic, or Minolta. Some of these meters can take spot attachments. A spot meter is a pretty specialized tool and requires more thought from the operator as well as being slower. A good meter is an investment--it will work with any camera and last a lifetime.
05-23-2012, 09:22 AM   #3276
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I don't know, Yamanobori. It is situation dependent which meter is faster to use. I think a one-degree is faster than an incident for many situations. For example, taking pictures of people you don't need to walk up to them to get a reading. You can do it all from the camera position and in a few seconds with a spotmeter. Take one reading off the skin and you're good to go. And there will be no surprises if the skin is too dark or light. I've been using a one-degree for over 20 years now and every time I use my incident meter, I feel a bit lost as to what in the scene is the the middle gray.

Last edited by tuco; 05-23-2012 at 12:36 PM.
05-23-2012, 11:30 AM   #3277
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QuoteOriginally posted by Yamanobori Quote
If you don't have a meter, I would not recommend a spot meter as your first. I would suggest a good incident/reflected light meter by Gossen, Sekonic, or Minolta. Some of these meters can take spot attachments. A spot meter is a pretty specialized tool and requires more thought from the operator as well as being slower. A good meter is an investment--it will work with any camera and last a lifetime.
I use a Minolta one to meter scenes occasionally in difficult lighting. I find that sometimes my 645D and my Canon underexpose slightly in comparison....
05-23-2012, 04:43 PM   #3278
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I don't know, Yamanobori. It is situation dependent which meter is faster to use. I think a one-degree is faster than an incident for many situations. For example, taking pictures of people you don't need to walk up to them to get a reading. You can do it all from the camera position and in a few seconds with a spotmeter. Take one reading off the skin and you're good to go. And there will be no surprises if the skin is too dark or light. I've been using a one-degree for over 20 years now and every time I use my incident meter, I feel a bit lost as to what in the scene is the the middle gray.
But you don't need to be next to the subject to get a meter reading. You just need to be in the same light or use reflective metering. And with incident metering, you don't even need to know what middle gray is and it take color out of the equation.

I have a spot meter, but you really need to now what you are pointing it at both in arms of luminance and color (meters don't see color the way film/sensors do)--and spot meters are rather strange when pointing at strangers. I am sure you can use your meter quickly, but I bet 20 years ago it was not so simple. I basically use my spot meter when I had to shoot slides and I did not want to or could not bracket. They are very accurate if you use them properly. But with negative film in fast moving situations, the spot meter did not work for me.

No meter is easy to use. There is an art to it. My experience is that folks find the spot meter harder (and intrusive).

Just my 2 cents.

05-23-2012, 04:47 PM   #3279
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QuoteOriginally posted by itshimitis Quote
I use a Minolta one to meter scenes occasionally in difficult lighting. I find that sometimes my 645D and my Canon underexpose slightly in comparison....
Now the camera is my meter. I shot a single frame and then dial in the exposure compensation value. I am getting good at spotting when I have to compensate the exposure with the 645D and by how much.

BTW, there is now more than one definition for ISO. One for film, but a couple for digital. And then there is the problem about how these devices (meters and cameras and film) see color.
05-23-2012, 07:31 PM - 2 Likes   #3280
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Finally figuring out how to share some of my new images taken with the 645D...hope this works...



Pentax 645D, 35mm A, f/18, 1/4 sec, ISO 100. Stacked three Cokin Z filters, GND2+GND4+GND8. Also, had to do a little exposure blending on areas where the water was blown out. It all happened so quickly I wasn't able to adjust my filters as I should have.
05-23-2012, 07:41 PM   #3281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ryan Tischer Quote
Finally figuring out how to share some of my new images taken with the 645D...hope this works...



Pentax 645D, 35mm A, f/18, 1/4 sec, ISO 100. Stacked three Cokin Z filters, GND2+GND4+GND8. Also, had to do a little exposure blending on areas where the water was blown out. It all happened so quickly In't able to adjust my filters as I should have.
Very dramatic, I like it.
05-23-2012, 07:49 PM   #3282
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
Very dramatic, I like it.
Thank you!
05-23-2012, 08:37 PM   #3283
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"Fern Springs" -Yosemite National Park, one of the smallest, yet most beautiful waterfalls in the park.
Pentax 645D, with 120mm A Macro, f/32, 8 sec, ISO 100
05-23-2012, 10:20 PM   #3284
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Ryan

Typical 645D excellence when in the right Hands..., BTW Ryan have you thought of the D800E+Zeiss 21mm combo to complement your Pentax system?
05-24-2012, 07:14 AM   #3285
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QuoteOriginally posted by Abdallah Quote
Typical 645D excellence when in the right Hands..., BTW Ryan have you thought of the D800E+Zeiss 21mm combo to complement your Pentax system?
Abdallah, thank you for your compliment. Yes, I have thought about the D800E, but not really considering it at this time. Just bought the 25mm D FA, so can't justify any more major purchases at this time! I'm a landscape shooter, so don't need the speed, but sometimes I like to do night photography, and the 645D is not very good for that. Maybe I'll just pickup a used K5 for 'cheap'!
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