[texandrews]

I fail to see the advantages of the Fuji 50 mpx cameras over the 645z with the same sensor. Perhaps the physical size is a thing. When it comes to lenses then how many lenses do you really need?

OVF cameras have advantages over mirrorless ones, and vice versa. Size was the original mirrorless advantage, but much less so today I think. These advantages/disadvantages have been recounted many places, so I won't repeat them here.

I often see justification for the Fuji as an affordable medium format with a future development path. But what is it? Their current format can't go to 645 full frame. The Fuji 100mpx is basically the end of their medium format growth path.

Yes. Add to that some apparent reliability problems cropping up, and as I said above some recent statements from Fuji that would give me more than pause had I bought into that system.

So what is the advantage of having a medium format kit? There are only two points I can think of, these being (1) shallower depth of field to enable for a 3D visual effect in the correct(?) composition, (2) to have enough pixels to print big, really big in high resolution.

It's been shown that shallow DOF is well accomplished with FF cameras and fast lenses. Also, there are FF cameras that exceed the 50mp of some of the Fuji and the Pentax 645Z. Then there's pixel-shift. But what I think is the most significant medium format advantage is in the tonal transitions area. The best example I've seen on these forums was posted some time ago by member rdenney---it's an image of trees (maybe a crop) that shows this "slow" transition in the tonal range. Smaller formats are progressively less smooth from what I have seen. One of the reasons no one seems to say much about this right now I think is that folks today gravitate to icily crisp images.

Getting back to (#1) above, the larger the sensor the easier it is to create a 3D effect. More pixels do not necessarily contribute much. It's about composition and compression of the image.

If it's just blur, then no. But if you add in this other tonality aspect, then yes. The effect is subtle, however. Way too subtle to make a difference to most photographers, and arguably not necessary for lots of photography subjects/styles.

So what exactly is the future growth path of Fuji that outshines the 645z?

After those discouraging comments from Fuji itself, I really don't know.

Both manufacturers are reluctant to commit to a MF strategy in public. Fuji is openly dampening expectations. Pentax is just absent from the conversation.

Pentax has to be the most sphinx like of all the camera companies. So, lack of communication from them no longer alarms me. In fact, this covid period had me scratching my head about their new outpourings of marketing.

PhaseOne is overcharging and is selling the MF sizzle left right and centre to whomever appears to have 50k in spare change

Not just sizzle, Some of that gear really is impressive, with some built in features that I'd love to have in my Z; but theirs is a BtoB play. Most major museums have Phase One stuff.

and Hasselblad is maintaining their MF range as a loss-leader whilst paying the bills with branding mobile phone and consumer grade drone cameras.

Hassy is harder to figure out IMO.

Your thoughts?

You asked, you got 'em!

[TDvN57]

OVF cameras have advantages over mirrorless ones, and vice versa. Size was the original mirrorless advantage, but much less so today I think. These advantages/disadvantages have been recounted many places, so I won't repeat them here.



Yes. Add to that some apparent reliability problems cropping up, and as I said above some recent statements from Fuji that would give me more than pause had I bought into that system.

It's been shown that shallow DOF is well accomplished with FF cameras and fast lenses. Also, there are FF cameras that exceed the 50mp of some of the Fuji and the Pentax 645Z. Then there's pixel-shift. But what I think is the most significant medium format advantage is in the tonal transitions area. The best example I've seen on these forums was posted some time ago by member rdenney---it's an image of trees (maybe a crop) that shows this "slow" transition in the tonal range. Smaller formats are progressively less smooth from what I have seen. One of the reasons no one seems to say much about this right now I think is that folks today gravitate to icily crisp images.



If it's just blur, then no. But if you add in this other tonality aspect, then yes. The effect is subtle, however. Way too subtle to make a difference to most photographers, and arguably not necessary for lots of photography subjects/styles.

After those discouraging comments from Fuji itself, I really don't know.

Pentax has to be the most sphinx like of all the camera companies. So, lack of communication from them no longer alarms me. In fact, this covid period had me scratching my head about their new outpourings of marketing. Not just sizzle, Some of that gear really is impressive, with some built in features that I'd love to have in my Z; but theirs is a BtoB play. Most major museums have Phase One stuff. Hassy is harder to figure out IMO.

You asked, you got 'em!

Comments much appreciated it adds to a more complete picture. I agree with you about tonal transition in MF, I missed that.

The 3D effect that I am chasing in landscape I find is very illusive. We have three large prints in our house that has a 3D effect, and one was taken with the 645z. Perhaps the tonality transition is contributing more than the DoF. Although if the composition does not include a 3D illusion then it does not show the effect either.

Some years ago I dabbled in 3D video and had to learn to combine exposure, depth of field, focus point and convergence point. Not easy in a dynamic scene. With all these points correct, the composition had to include some offset component that is in the field of view, in focus, but out of the convergence point (line actually), with slight motion the human vision can then be tricked into seeing 3D. In a static printed 2D image it is much more difficult to get the composition right to trick the same effect. Since the convergence point does not exist in 2D you have to create a virtual convergence with DoF and the offset component can be simulated with being slightly outside the DoF. Very illusive... But when it works it is magic.

[kaseki]

IIRC, microlenses are a mirrorless thing, mainly to offset the short flange back distance.

Shorter flange back distance allows steeper ray angle / lower f/no lenses. The outer rays strike the pixels at steep angles and the pixel has reduced sensitivity at these angles due to the cosine of the angle effect. Microlenses can moderate this by making the internal (to the lens) detection angle less. However, the Lagrange Invariant still conforms to the Laws of Thermodynamics; the penalty is that the effective pixel area is minified in proportion to the improvement in cosine of angle effect. The integral of detected ray energies over the angle space and translational space cannot be improved. So, I believe that the microlenses flatten the sensitivity variation with angle function at perhaps a slight cost of lower absolute sensitivity to narrow ray bundles.

This is the opposite effect of an undersized detector embedded in a high index over sized glob lens magnifying the apparent detector size. The detector sensitivity is improved for direct rays but the angle performance restricts the use of low f/no lenses for increased light collection.

[marco_gea]

A photograph related to my "other" hobby :-)
This is my latest acquisition, a handcrafted-in-Japan, wide-neck "fingerstyle" acoustic guitar from Takamine.
Shot taken from a tripod, with the SMC Pentax-A 645 55mm f/2.8 @ f/11, adapted to the Fujifilm GFX50R.

Attached Images

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[SFTphotography]

Hi,

Yep. That'll work. I like it. I have not seen a Nikon (or Nikon based as it turns out) camera that does that. Not that I've had all of them. Not by a long shot. The only one I can think of which did this is the Kodak 14n aka SLR/n once they fixed the issues with the 14n. It was known as ISO 6 on that unit.

It's easy to see what I want it for. Removing people walking around a lighthouse.

Thanks for the wonderful example of how that mode works. BTW, I have not heard that the GFX has this. Maybe it does, but the Z having it pretty much makes my mind up.

Stan

Multiple exposure is a feature on Nikon camera's - I was dabbling with ICM and it was a Nikon user that told me about it.

[TDvN57]

Three days ago, I decided that I wanted to pop back down to Port Kembla and get some more shots of the steelworks while it's still there. My earlier trip, a few weeks ago, made with my two young sons in tow, had only whetted my appetite and, pretty amenable as they are, I wanted the freedom to roam and spend time in ways they just wouldn't have allowed. It's less than two hours from home, so not too difficult to do...

These taken with GFX100S and the following lenses: Pentax 645 90mm DFA, 645 150mm FA, 67 200mm f4 late and 67 300mm f4 EDIF

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And this one with GFX100S and the Pentax 645 28-45 lens
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Incredible pictures with unbelievable detail Ed. It is a pity that these industrial giants are disappearing, even though the world requires more steel every year. Europe has proved that these industries can exist without the usual pollution associated with it.

[Ed Hurst]

Incredible pictures with unbelievable detail Ed. It is a pity that these industrial giants are disappearing, even though the world requires more steel every year. Europe has proved that these industries can exist without the usual pollution associated with it.

Thanks, Theuns. I find myself conflicted... On the one hand, I ardently want these beasts replaced by modern, less-polluting alternatives ASAP. On the other, I admire their old fashioned, gothic grunginess and the history that they embody, so much so that I will miss them when they're not operating in full swing, or gone altogether. Maybe I would feel the latter less if I had to live near one, of course!

Obviously coal is inherent in steel production, even aside from the power usage. But I am sure that the process can be carried out using much less coal in total.

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Last edited by Ed Hurst; 04-03-2022 at 10:02 PM.

[TDvN57]

This swan had an issue with the two geese and made sure they could not get in the water. Every time they dared to go in, he came rushing over to them and chased them out.

645z + P67 55-100

[stubyles]

Ok, starting to like the A35/3.5, one from the Solent after sunset:

[Bonner04]

Pentax 645N II
Pentax smc FA 75mm f/2.8
Kodak T-Max 400
T-Max Developer 1:4 7 Minutes
Epson Perfection V550 Photo Scanner

[TDvN57]

Pentax 645N II
Pentax smc FA 75mm f/2.8
Kodak T-Max 400
T-Max Developer 1:4 7 Minutes
Epson Perfection V550 Photo Scanner

Very sensual :-)

---------- Post added 2022-04-05 at 04:15 PM ----------

Ok, starting to like the A35/3.5, one from the Solent after sunset:

Great picture Stuart. Thank you for sharing.

[RICHARD L.]

[volley]

Pentax 645N II
Pentax smc FA 75mm f/2.8
Kodak T-Max 400
T-Max Developer 1:4 7 Minutes
Epson Perfection V550 Photo Scanner

... great! Is there a way to leave more than 1 like??

[cdd29]

... great! Is there a way to leave more than 1 like??

should be able to click on the thumbs up icon on the lower lower left by the post

[TDvN57]

Saw these Lily of the valley (Maiglöckchen) that are pushing spring-time to hasten....

645z + P67 55-100mm