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View Poll Results: Do you intend to buy a 645D
No 7351.05%
Yes - asap (1 year) 139.09%
Yes - in 1-2 years 2819.58%
Yes - 3 years + 2920.28%
Voters: 143. You may not vote on this poll

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03-13-2010, 05:34 AM   #16
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I think one of the biggest issues that medium format takes care of is diffraction. Certainly you can keep pushing megapixels on smaller sensors to new heights, but on the Canon 7D now, diffraction begins to set in around f5.6. With a full frame sensor, there is more head room, but eventually you run into limits there.

That said, I can't see ever affording even a used 645 D, beyond which it wouldn't really be that useful for family snaps.

03-13-2010, 07:07 AM   #17
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Yes. I will eventually purchase one. I enjoy using my 645N bodies and lenses, this will just be an extension of that.
I am still hoping they put out a lower megapixel model, that is less expensive and has higher ISO capabilities - but keep the amazing weather sealing and dual SD card slots.
03-13-2010, 01:45 PM   #18
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I think that if I were considering turning pro in my field (landscape/ travel) and didn't already have pro equipment, I would go for this camera. This is not my situation, as I am already established with three P67s and various lenses. My getting a P645D at this point would just add to my overhead. I also don't think there is going to be much difference in print sharpness between the P645D and the P67 with Velvia 50.
03-13-2010, 04:59 PM   #19
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No not for me. I love the square format hence there is a different system that suits me better. Those that shoot both D3X or the Canon equivalent and also MF digital claim there are no comparisions between the two plus the intentions of the two formats are not the same. If I cropped or shot rectanglar in MF I would vote in 3 years however like I said above I do love the square format and digital backs for the V system are competitive in price although the used lenses are not yet (I do expect that to change as 645 lenses become less of a super bargain).

I have never used medium format digital but comparion of a Nikon D3 and scanned medium format in a Nikon 8000/9000 left the D3 in the weeds (personal experience) so I do believe that for many the 645D will be extremely desirable. On another list there was the comment that Pentax is now a ground changer.

03-13-2010, 05:19 PM   #20
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I, for one, am glad to see Pentax move in this direction. Though I think you either have to have a lot of disposable income to get MF digital or the camera will bring you in money to justify the expense. In the Hasselblad group on flickr, there are several MF digital shooters and their work shows way better results in light capturing ability than the APS-C cameras do. That in itself would be a big lure for me. But unfortunately my pictures do not earn me money.
03-13-2010, 05:24 PM   #21
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Why not?

I have an arsenal of 12 A/FA 645 lenses and two more specialized lenses via adapter.

True cost of buy, process and quality scan of one roll of 120 is about $40-50. Breakeven point is only 200 rolls.

Yuri: our A/FA35mm's and 33-55 are now obsolete! 8P
03-13-2010, 05:25 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I, for one, am glad to see Pentax move in this direction. Though I think you either have to have a lot of disposable income to get MF digital or the camera will bring you in money to justify the expense. In the Hasselblad group on flickr, there are several MF digital shooters and their work shows way better results in light capturing ability than the APS-C cameras do. That in itself would be a big lure for me. But unfortunately my pictures do not earn me money.
The Hasselblad digitals are awesome, and their cost makes the 645d seem like a bargain. Still, like you, I could not free the disposable income right now to go $10k. Unless I pick the right Powerball ticket, I'll keep running film through my 25 year old 645 body for a few more years.
03-14-2010, 12:39 AM   #23
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I got a bit of money 5 years ago and set it aside for the 645D, which money almost got spent several times over as the 645D slipped in and out of various stages of vaporware. I have had a P645 since 1990 and have since added an N body and a dozen lens. So I am going to be an adopter, earlier the better.

03-14-2010, 12:48 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
The difference between the two will continue to shrink, and both will be above a certain bar, making the expense and size overhead of the larger format less and less attractive.
The same situation existed at the height of the film era. MF did not go away then because any advances in 35mm film technology were easily tranlated to 120 and 220 film. The same exact situation exists with with between digital 35mm (APS-C & FF) and digital MF now. There will always be photographers and organizations (landscape and fashion) that will want the much higher quality level of MF. As long as such a quality difference exists, they will keep buying DMF equipment. Furthermore, the quality difference will continue to exist because any advance in 35mm sensors are easily translatable to digital MF and vice versa at least until the photosites get so small that other issues crop up. In that case, the quality difference will probably freeze in place and pixel counts will stabilize. Either that or people will realize that they're outresolving their lenses or have potential print sizes measured in feet or meters.

If anything, the lower price of DMF will allow the more affluent photographers and organizations that were limited to the smaller format 35mm by the DMF price barrier to buy into a DMF system (Pentax 645D). The analogy would be to think of the 645D as a "gateway" to the higher quality of the DMF world. Furthermore, the price competition will force the higher end DMF players to release more affordable lower end models to stave off the competition. I believe that the lower price of the 645D will help to stabilize the DMF market just as the film 645N and NII once acted as the "budget" models of the MF world. Hasselblad and Mamiya should be thankful for the 645D's introduction. I believe that their own pricing practices were forcing some organizations and photographers to go for the more affordable "D35mm" format.

Of course, there will always be those affluent photographers that will insist on having the best equipment that they can afford. It might not be a Blad or something, but the 645D is a DMF. It might not have an interchangeable back, but at that price point, One can just buy the successor as long as it is around the same price at introduction.

This camera is not for everyone. It seems to be aimed more for those who would love to purchase a DMF camera, cannot afford a DMF camera, but can afford something like the Canon 1DS series cameras. Those photographers would be the ones who do not need ultra high frame rates, but do need features that have been the traditional strengths and advantages of DMF like potential higher image quality.

One of the things that really appeals to me is the apparent ruggedness and portability of this camera compared to other DMFs. It's weathersealed!!! Couple that with a set of weathersealed primes, and I could take this camera right up to the base of Bridal Veil Falls in the spring...

EDIT: Although this camera is "relatively affordable" compared to DMFs, it's not easily affordable for someone like me. I figure that I will have to save up for a year or so before I can purchase this camera and the (hopefully forthcoming) weather sealed UWA prime for it. I would love to take this camera out for some landscape photos, ultra high res stitching, and some senior photography. I'm sure there are other photogs that are thinking the same thing, just as there photogs that this camera will serve no useful purpose for (just as it was in the film era)...

Last edited by HawaiianOnline; 03-14-2010 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Did not want to double post...
03-14-2010, 04:46 PM   #25
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For now i don´t have the money, but in around 2 years i can buy one in second hand or the new version if it exist.

But i am with hurry to see my FA 35/3,5 in use
03-15-2010, 05:53 PM   #26
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Greetings,

I am a new member and have a few comments on the new 645D. (Apologies for the longish post and my broken English.)

- IMHO, the KAF-40000 sensor (44x33mm) seems to be an excellent choice; the same as the one on the Mamiya DM40, quite comparable to the KAF-39000 (46x38mm) used on the latest H3DII-39 and probably better than the one on the Leica S2 (KAF-37500, 45x30mm). No need to mind much about the 14/16 bit DA conversion since these all boast around 11.5-12 f-stops dynamic range; DR is the key, not how they achieved it.

- CMOS to CCD comparison: We will have to wait until some CMOS sensors are introduced in the MF format for insightful comparisons, however nothing yet in sight from Kodak or Dalsa. Some professionals talk about some advantages of CCD over CMOS especially for the color rendition at lower ISO’s and a certain Ronnie Gaubert believes in the same even in the APS-C format.

- Cost comparison: Suppose you would like to build a system around the 645D with the available lenses, manual or AF, from the former 645 series (as they are so convenient to buy these days). Estimate the total cost and then try to do the same again with the manual or AF lenses around a pro 35mm format camera like the D3x or 1DsIII. Shortly, a system built on the 645D is even comparable to the 35mm pro systems, as far as the cost is concerned. (Please no flames, this comparison is for the sake of cost only, not the field of use.)

- Image quality: This is the most debatable issue for many who are waiting for the next generation of 35mm CMOS sensors with resolving power close to or over 30MPs and dreaming to achieve the same IQ as the DMF format delivering today. However those of us coming from film know well to put 35mm images apart the ones from the MF, no matter how similarly sharp they seem to be. The factors defining IQ other than resolution, like tonality, extended gradation, color accuracy, clarity, smooth and “creamy” look, etc., seem to be overlooked by many digital aficionados. Such characteristics of the MF format sometimes strike our eyes even in the small sizes confined to the pages of magazines or books; leave aside the large screens of our computers or poster size prints. The pictures by Graham Mitchell at the GetDpi forum, taken with an e54LV having only 22MP are good examples to compare to the ones shot with the top FF sensors of today.

It surely is not for the masses, only very few will be able to afford for it. But still kudos to Pentax, for accomplishing in bringing the DMF quality closer to us than what the other brands could do so far; not unlike the 645s in our hands did once compared to the Hasselblads, Rolleis and Mamiyas.

Kind regards,

Bob
03-16-2010, 06:58 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think one of the biggest issues that medium format takes care of is diffraction. Certainly you can keep pushing megapixels on smaller sensors to new heights, but on the Canon 7D now, diffraction begins to set in around f5.6. With a full frame sensor, there is more head room, but eventually you run into limits there.

That said, I can't see ever affording even a used 645 D, beyond which it wouldn't really be that useful for family snaps.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the pixel spacing is less dense than the K-7, so it will have diffraction set in at smaller apertures.
03-16-2010, 10:18 PM   #28
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Short answer.....absolutely! I've been waiting for this camera since the first rumors and mock-ups appeared (2004?). Had pretty much given up hope two years ago and so bought a Hasselblad 503CWD.....but I kept all of my Pentax 67 gear and lenses. Now I'm anxious for the 645D to come to the USA and I have begun to pull together a collection of 645 lenses....and also purchased one of the P67 to P645 lens adapters.

Well done Pentax!

Gary
03-16-2010, 11:09 PM   #29
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if money were no issue

If money were no issue, of course. But $10k is not for me. I mean 1k is hardly me...
03-18-2010, 12:34 PM   #30
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+1 on the money thing. I could see it if I were in the business and could write it off, and would make my living with it.

Otherwise, I'll continue to bottom feed, only the bottom suddenly got a lot shallower for P645 lenses I wonder why
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