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03-20-2010, 04:06 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
77 mm (and 85) are the classic portrait focal lengths for film. On aps-c 50mm would work out to be the equivalent. Such is the DA*55 the official portrait lens on the lineup today.
Um, those focal lengths are normal to wide angle. This is the MF group.

03-20-2010, 04:24 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
The guy also linked to the full size image in that post which has a shrunken copy of this:
http://www.polodigital.net/images/SandyM/Sandy035f.jpg
WOW! that's really nice
03-20-2010, 05:57 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Um, those focal lengths are normal to wide angle. This is the MF group.
LOL. Err yes. I was answering someone's else's comments about on "why not just move further away to get more DOF"...
So have you done beauty/portrait shots using film MF? Curious how you handled this DOF issue and how much was in focus since that should have even more of an issue than the 645D since it's not 1.3x crop...
03-20-2010, 08:07 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
So have you done beauty/portrait shots using film MF?
I've done a few MF and LF portraits. I haven't found DOF too big of a problem but I don't care to get everything in focus either so that may be a factor. And also when DOF is a problem I just put more distance between the lens and the subject to get more DOF and crop the results.

Here are some examples:

Pentax 6x7 head and shoulders with a 165mm

Pentax 6x7 upper body with 165mm

Pentax 6x7 Head shoulders with 200mm

Hasselblad 500C/M 2/3 body with 150mm

A 4x5 head and shoulders 180mm

4x5 Head shoulders 210mm


Last edited by tuco; 03-20-2010 at 08:25 PM.
03-20-2010, 08:25 PM   #20
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The majority of the time, the trick in portrait photography is getting a sharp image of the subject with separation from the background, so I find the shallower DOF of the longer lenses an advantage.
03-22-2010, 06:44 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
And also when DOF is a problem I just put more distance between the lens and the subject to get more DOF and crop the results.

4x5 Head shoulders 210mm
Thanks...the cropping thing is what I suspect would have to be done.
That last image I find to be a bit odd...his face looks like it's floating out of the page because the shoulder on the left is bokeh'd out.

Even w/ FF, this seems to be less of an issue:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyeh01/3920447263/meta/
03-22-2010, 07:42 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenyee Quote
Even w/ FF, this seems to be less of an issue:
Flickr: More detail about Kimberly Fattorini: Something Different
Well, sure, it would be less of an issue. A 70mm focal length in that example is a piece of cake and you don't even have to worry about focus, exposure or balancing flashes; the camera will do it all for you.

Last edited by tuco; 03-22-2010 at 08:22 AM.
03-28-2010, 07:26 PM   #23
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I am tooling up for some large format work and what I have learned from browsing the various LF forums and resources in regards to DOF, diffraction and what not has truly amazed me.

I was aware of decreased DOF for FF relative to APS-C and was an active participant in the "Great DOF Wars" here on PF almost 2 years ago. I was also aware that DOF was even less for MF than for 35mm. What totally took me by surprise were statements from the LF world (4x5 and larger) indicating optimum taking apertures for most lenses at f/16, f/22, and f/32! I was also somewhat shocked to read that apparently some use of tilt and/or swing to optimize plane of focus is routine because of thin DOF. "What about diffraction?", I thought. As noted above, diffraction is less of an issue as the media size increases and for most purposes the benefit of greater DOF outweighs whatever softness might come from tiny pinhole apertures.

I guess the short story is that "operational standards" of technique vary with the tools you use. In LF land everything is done using small apertures, long exposures (or lighting), tripods, camera movements, and incantations to the gods of wind and harmonic tripod vibrations. There are also a ton of trade-offs with even the smallest nudges of technique and nuance of gear. Just the opposite of what we do with our smaller, more nimble "miniature" cameras.

Steve

P.S. There is much more to the concept of optimum aperture with LF lenses than DOF, but I don't know if it is pertinent here...

P.P.S. I truly am speaking without wisdom on these topics, though the camera is due any day now. With any luck, I will have some hands on very soon!


Last edited by stevebrot; 03-28-2010 at 07:41 PM.
03-28-2010, 07:31 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I've done a few MF and LF portraits. I haven't found DOF too big of a problem but I don't care to get everything in focus either so that may be a factor. And also when DOF is a problem I just put more distance between the lens and the subject to get more DOF and crop the results.

Here are some examples:

Pentax 6x7 head and shoulders with a 165mm

Pentax 6x7 upper body with 165mm

Pentax 6x7 Head shoulders with 200mm

Hasselblad 500C/M 2/3 body with 150mm

A 4x5 head and shoulders 180mm

4x5 Head shoulders 210mm
Thanks for these examples! I have been puzzling in my head trying to visualize what the different focal lengths mean for the different formats and this post helps immensely!

Steve
03-28-2010, 09:45 PM   #25
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Steve, there is a Large Format Portrait flickr group that you can look through while you wait for that camera to come. Many post the gear used in the tags
03-29-2010, 06:32 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Interestingly, diffraction limits seem to move in lock step with DOF changes, so I wonder (though I haven't bothered to look at it from a purely theoretical standpoint as I prefer to spend my camera time taking pictures; what a concept) if there's ultimately no difference between formats.
pingflood, keep spending your time on taking pictures

Because yes, it can be shown in a purely theoretical way that a bigger sensor format does not limit the available depth of field choices.

We had this discussion in the APS-C vs. FF debate of course. There is an extremely simple summary:
Given a Field of View and Distance to the Subject then Depth of Field and Diffraction Artifacts only depend on the physical size (in mm) of the aperture diameter. When defined per total image. I.e., both effects are independent on film or sensor size. Period.
All other insight is downhill from there.

E.g., for the same FoV on medium format, you'll use a longer focal length and therefore, a higher f-stop (for same aperture diameter in mm). And of course, choices for available aperture diameters (in mm) may be more limited for smaller focal lengths, read smaller sensor sizes.

Last edited by falconeye; 03-29-2010 at 06:39 AM.
03-29-2010, 11:11 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Steve, there is a Large Format Portrait flickr group that you can look through while you wait for that camera to come. Many post the gear used in the tags
Thanks! It is a brave new world and I have much to learn!

Steve
03-29-2010, 11:21 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
...All other insight is downhill from there...
There are other factors, but as you say, it is a downward spiral.

I would suggest that anyone interested in pursuing the matter further make use of the volumes of information on the Web
-- OR --
Get out there and get real world field experience by shooting some pictures.


Steve
03-29-2010, 01:27 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I've done a few MF and LF portraits. I haven't found DOF too big of a problem but I don't care to get everything in focus either so that may be a factor. And also when DOF is a problem I just put more distance between the lens and the subject to get more DOF and crop the results.

Here are some examples:

Pentax 6x7 head and shoulders with a 165mm

Pentax 6x7 upper body with 165mm

Pentax 6x7 Head shoulders with 200mm

Hasselblad 500C/M 2/3 body with 150mm

A 4x5 head and shoulders 180mm

4x5 Head shoulders 210mm
Impressive work !
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